Around the Arena (Qualifying Game 1 Started, Topic 1 Posted)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by DarthIntegral, Jun 25, 2007.

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  1. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    C'mon people ... just one more sign-up. You ... lurker ... you know you want to play
  2. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    why not...




    1. ApolloStatGirl
    2. Kypt
    3. Prenn the Great
    4. Armenian_Jedi
  3. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    There's only one place to even begin discussion ...

    <img src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/08/07/sports/08bonds-600.jpg">
    Barry. Bonds. 756.

    Baseball has a new homerun king. And I want to give our panel of experts an open slate to talk about it. What does the record mean? Does there need to be an asterisk? What's the real story here: Bonds getting the record, Aaron's message, Selig's response, A-Rod's chase, or something else?

    Let's go Around the Arena to our panel of experts ...
  4. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    What does the record mean? This is considered by most as the greatest record in American sports, so in my opinion Barry Bonds has just completed the greatest individual feat in sports. 757 times now(with his two run splasher tonight) he's put the ball over the fence. There is nothing else anyone can do to come close, until the next guy breaks the record. As far as an asterisk or any crap like that, first you have to prove he's done something, and then you have to prove that whatever he did, he did it while there were rules in place. A lot of people forget that a lot of these banned substances haven't always been banned substances. You can't punish someone for using something at a time when there was no rule against using it.

    Also, Hank Aaron and Bud Selig did what they had to do. Watching Aaron practically cringe on that huge screen at the thought of saying what he was saying was painful and awkward to watch.
  5. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    All the steroid whackers are taking this waaaay too seriously. I mean, really. This is entertainment. And Bonds has entertained us 757 times thus far, and will do so at least a couple times more.

    At this point in his career, I liken Bonds to the heel (villain) in professional wrestling. People love him, people hate him, but he's freaking entertaining. Period. His little pout sessions, his emo cry fests (nobody understands me!), his outbursts, his very awkwardly large and unnatural body, and also his home runs.

    Now don't misunderstand what I'm saying. This is a very amazing thing that he has done, with or without steroids. Only one other person is on record for being able to do this in the world...and I think that it's a true shame that that person couldn't understand that this was an amazing moment for the professional sporting entertainment industry, and for all of Baseball.

    All in all, I'm happy with this. I've been very entertained throughout this ordeal, and everybody involved will profit from this. Bonds finally broke one of the biggest records in sports, baseball will profit from this as another steroid laden beastman comes close to the record again, and some poor college kid will probably be able to pay for his entire tuition after catching the ball.

    I give it four thumbs up.
  6. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
  7. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    Should every player who's been busted with a DUI be banned from baseball? Have their records taken away?

    If he did something against the law, let the law handle it... but if it's not against baseball's rules, then baseball needs to shut the hell up, because they created this monster in the first place.
  8. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Let's let everyone post initial thoughts before we give second thoughts, ok? Don't make me use the mute button.
  9. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
  10. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    It seems we have a desire to have some responses, I'll probably extend this at least 36 hours, maybe 48, since I might want to post some follow up questions to. It's the story of the year, and for most of us, our lifetime, at least as far as baseball goes.
  11. Kyptsbeengamebanned Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Coming from Australia, in which you very rarely hear about Baseball at all, let alone American Baseball, Barry Bonds is the one player, if any, that someone who doesn't really follow the sport could identify. We've seen much of his progress, from the most HR's in a season, to matching Ruth and finally catching Aaron last week. From a purely numerical standpoint, it is a fantastic achievement, as the breaking of any longstanding record is. And since the guy doesn't look or act like your typical sportsman, many should be able to relate to him and enjoy his achievement.

    As for the record, well 'records are made to be broken'. As the amount of games per season continues to increase (this is true for all sports), and with improved training, recovery techniques and technology, higher numbers will soon be on the horizon. Looking at Rodriguez's stats, he's only 250 odd hr's behind Bonds, as well as being eleven years younger. Barring Injury, loss of form or something else, you'll be seeing a new figure at the top in the not to distant future.

    Now, to steroids. As far as I know, he's never been convicted or tested positive to any banned substance. Like any high profile and high achieving sportsperson in a sport which has a history of drug scandals, they will come under intense scrutiny and suspicion for their records. A good example of this is seven time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong, another who's been accused many times of taking performance enhancing drugs, but never been proven to have. Bonds appears to be the same.

    That said, if he has used performance enhancing drugs in the past, even if they weren't illegal at the time, it would diminish my view of his achievement. To me, sport is a test of skill, endurance and the willingness to work hard to be the best you can be, and competition between sportspeople and teams on as level a playing field as possible. A person who uses drugs away some of that beauty of competition. I understand what Prenn's saying about entertainment, but performance enhancing drugs lessen the spectacle of all sporting events in my eyes.
  12. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Bring on the rebuttals!

    And, I've got two follow-up questions:

    Give me a dark horse candidate among current players to break the record

    And, in one word or less, tell me how many homers Bonds ends up with.
  13. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    I have a question for anyone willing to answer... let's say a player uses a corked bat and goes up against a pitcher who throws spitballs, who has the advantage?


    Using my not very wonderful memory, I can remember just as many pitchers getting caught using some sort of performance enhancing drug as hitters... so if both sides are using it, isn't it an even playing field? Do the hitters really have the upper hand if the pitchers are using the same stuff?


    I'm not saying it's ok to use steroids, I'm simply stating that Bonds had no advantage in any of those home runs.
  14. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    Edit - lets just fix that up ;)
  15. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    of course not all the players... and definitely less these days then 5-8 years ago. But just as many pitchers as hitters IMO.
  16. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    I'l post a new topic tomorrow, so if you have final thoughts, get them in.
  17. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6

    Give me a dark horse candidate among current players to break the record


    Babe Ruth (I hear that they have a new steriod on the market that not only increases your muscle mass by 400%, it also raises you from the dead).

    And, in one word or less, tell me how many homers Bonds ends up with.

    767
  18. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    I think Bonds will try to go for 800, not sure if he'll get there or not. He seems the type to do that sort of thing, even if he is past his prime.
  19. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    That was way less than 1 word.
  20. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    Fixed :p
  21. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    I see what you did there.
  22. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Let's see how we did that round ...

    A_J: +3 (Like the boldness to back Bonds and the record) +2 (nice mention that banned =/= always banned)
    PRENN: +2 (a bit of a stretch on the rasslin analogy) +2 (nice recovery to spin the ball catching)
    ASG: +2 (Bonds has been polarizing, even without roids) +2 (invoking the name of TO) +2 (plenty of other good stuff)
    Kpyt: +3 (pure stats POV) +1 (invoking the name of ARod) +2 (I agree that Peformance Enhancing Drugs, legal or not, diminish any record)
    ASG: +1 (Good point DUI is not a great example) +1 (I'm a sucker for Selig bashing)
    A_J: +3 (Great point on pitchers juicing, too. far too people bring this up)
    Kypt: +1 (Great point on the level playing field)
    ASG: +1 (I like the Texiara pick, definately a dark horse) -1 (that's more than one word)
    Prenn: -1 (You try hard to be funny, but like a bad Woody Paige pun, you fail) +1 (at least that was one word)
    Kypt: -1 (again, that's more than one word)

    Scoreboard

    This Round:

    Armenian_Jedi: 8
    ApolloSmileGirl: 8
    Kyptastic: 6
    MASTERPRENN: 4

    Overall:

    Armenian_Jedi: 8
    ApolloSmileGirl: 8
    Kyptastic: 6
    MASTERPRENN: 4
  23. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    And we go from a record breaker, to a record chaser, who just got a little closer:

    <img src="http://img.timeinc.net/golf/i/tours/2007/08/aug12_tigerwoods_299x198.jpg">
    Tiger Woods won the PGA Championship for his 13th career major. He sits in second place, and now trails Jack by only 5 major championships. So, let's go Around the Arena with three questions:

    1) How impressed were you by Tiger's victory this weekend?
    2) Will Tiger pass Jack (and if so, when)?
    3) Is Tiger Woods the greatest golfer we've ever seen?
  24. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    1) How impressed were you by Tiger's victory this weekend?

    I'm not gonna lie and say I watched it, but watching Sportscenter at all these days means you know when Tiger's taking a crap, let alone winning. I'm impressed that he keeps winning, but he just did what he's always done, not lose when entering the final round with a lead. He's known as the best frontrunner ever, but damnit, I want to see him come from behind one of these times.



    2) Will Tiger pass Jack (and if so, when)?

    I think he will, probably 4 or 5 years from now, unless he goes on one of his incredible streaks... in which case, for all we know, he could get it in 2-3 years. I don't see much of the competition as real competition for him. Until Sergio Garcia can figure out how to win a major, Tiger will keep winning at least 1 a year.



    3) Is Tiger Woods the greatest golfer we've ever seen?

    I'm not a golfing guy, so I really can't say. All I can go by is numbers, and right now, Big Daddy Jack's still got the most important number. When Tiger gets numero 19, I'll call him the greatest, but until then, he's just the greatest right now.
  25. Kyptsbeengamebanned Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2006
    1) How impressed were you by Tiger's victory this weekend?

    After his sluggish first round, I was worried that he'd have a poor tournament. However, Tiger being Tiger, he pulled something out of the hat - and that 63 was pretty amazing, given the course conditions. After that, it's what we've come to know and love from Woods, and as always, he held off all challenges on the final day

    2) Will Tiger pass Jack (and if so, when)?

    It's no longer a question of if, but when. I expect he'll slow down a bit, considering he now has a young family, but he'll never miss those majors, and no other golfer in the world at the moment has his drive, commitment and passion for excellence and will to suceed. If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on him equalling the record at the PGA three years from now, and surpassing Nicklaus at Augusta, where he won his first just over ten years ago

    3) Is Tiger Woods the greatest golfer we've ever seen?

    I don't usually like to make comparisons between current and retired players as to who's the greatest - there are always too many variables to consider and the future may hold something unexpected. However, if we compare him to Jack at the same age, he is already 4 majors ahead of him (Nicklaus had won nine by age 31) and has 80 professional wins, whereas Nicklaus only has 113 throughout his whole career. One minor critique that could be made is that Nicklaus had harder competition, especially from Arnold Palmer and Gary Player. That said, Tiger has had some very good adverseries over the years, including Mark O'Meara, Vijay Singh, Ernie Els, Reteif Goosen and Phil Mickleson, amongst others. The quality is very high in both eras.

    As I've said, it's too early to call him the greatest yet. But he's looking damn good to be considered that in a few years time.
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