PT Arrest of Palpatine...Legal?

You said:

PalpSidious would have to be some Force demi-god to go undetected from the Jedi his entire life and gaining so much power, that he successfully wiped out both his hated enemies and the government they serve. For this, Obi-wan actually DOES mean that PalpSidious is behind every event ever.​

So I asked: For instance if Palpatine was responsible for every event in the galaxy, how did he influence the pod race on Tatooine?​

If you can't back your ridiculous claims then your right there is no point in continuing this conversation.

 

You keep bringing up events that have absolutely NOTHING to do with PalpSidious' plot to destroy the Jedi and the Republic, that's what's ridiculous. So what if the Jedi and Padme escaped from Naboo and landed on Tatooine, met Anakin, escaped from Darth Maul, and arrived on Coruscant only to go back to Naboo and free the planet, none of that has any effect on PalpSidious' goal to kick Valorum out of office so he could take his place as supreme chancellor. His original goal for having the Trade Federation take over Naboo was so he could use that to trick the Republic into believing that Valorum is the worst excuse for a chancellor by allowing it to happen, hence, Nute Gunray's implication that it was illegal for the Trade Feds to hold a hostile takeover of Naboo while Palps responded with his "I will make it legal" comment. Then, he will do exactly what he told Padme to do which is call for a vote of no confidence in Valorum's leadership leading every senator to remove him from office and elect PalpSidious out of sympathy. Having Padme arrive on Coruscant didn't ruin his plans because he knew that she had no proof of what the Trade Feds have done and he showed her how useless Valorum is to help her which led to the same outcome. Whatever stuff that didn't go PalpSidious' way, it still doesn't change the fact that he got elected and proceeded to mastermind a series of plots that led to the demise of the Jedi Order and the dissolvement of the Republic.

Just because it isn't stated, it doesn't mean that it didn't happened. The movies never stated how Darth Maul was able to find Queen Amidala's ship, how PalpSidious knew that Anakin and Padme are married, or how Yoda and Obi-wan learned how to be shadowy blue ghosts after they die in the OT but they still happened. With that in mind, you can bet your ass that PalpSidious had something to do with the assassination attempts on Padme.

Even if Padme died in the explosion, the Jedi will still look for clues as to what caused the explosion like they did in the Clone Wars cartoon. When they do find evidence, then as I've said before, the Jedi will know where the evidence came from which will lead them to Zam, then to Jango, then to Dooku, and finally to PalpSidious. Oh wait, we already see that happen in AOTC and ROTS so once again, anything Jango does will be traced back to PalpSidious.

 

Dude what are you talking about. Nothing in AOTC or ROTS led them to Palpatine, he revealed himself to them lol and btw:

You said:
PalpSidious would have to be some Force demi-god to go undetected from the Jedi his entire life and gaining so much power, that he successfully wiped out both his hated enemies and the government they serve. For this, Obi-wan actually DOES mean that PalpSidious is behind every event ever.

So I asked: For instance if Palpatine was responsible for every event in the galaxy, how did he influence the pod race on Tatooine?

 

And I answered: What does that have to do with him killing the Jedi Order and shutting down the Republic?

If the event doesn't involve PalpSidious, then he's not going to bother with some non-important sport. But since you keep bringing it up, both Qui-Gon and Obi-wan did say they sensed a disturbance in the force when they arrived on Tatooine. Neither of them know where or what the source of the disturbance is so you might be on to something about PalpSidious using the Force to influence everything that goes on in Tatooine. As for the events of AOTC and ROTS not leading the Jedi to PalpSidious, YOU KNOW DAMN WELL THAT IT DID. If you don't believe that, then you obviously haven't watched the movies in a while so let me refresh your memory:

-Obi-wan and Anakin catch Zam.
-They watched her be killed by Jango's kaminoan saber dart.
-Obi-wan goes to Dexter Jettster and learns where the dart came from.
-Obi-wan goes to Kamino and discovers a clone army being created.
-Obi-wan finds Jango and they fight.
-Jango escapes to Geonosis while Obi-wan follows him there.
-Obi-wan discovers a droid army being assembled.
-Obi-wan sees Dooku and the separatists meeting on Geonosis.
-Obi-wan is captured and is met by Dooku.
-Dooku tells Obi-wan about Darth Sidious and how he's controlling the Republic.
-Obi-wan informs Mace and Yoda of what Dooku said.
-Mace suggests that "they should keep a closer eye on the senate".
-Obi-wan informs Anakin that the Council wants him to spy on Palpatine.
-Palpatine tells Anakin that he's Darth Sidious.
-Anakin informs Mace about PalpSidious being the Sith lord they've been looking for since TPM.

Everything that went down in AOTC and ROTS has led the Jedi straight to PalpSidious. It's only unfortunate that he allowed them to know about him so he could set them up to look like traitors to Republic while he tricks Vadakin into betraying and helping him kill off the entire Jedi Order.

 

Why was Obi-wan following Jango? Because he killed Zam Wessel, who had tried to kill Padme. How did he kill Zam? He used a Kamino Saber Dart. Why is this important? Because Kamino is where the Clone Army is and Obi-wan is told when he arrives that he was told that a Jedi was to be expected. Who recommended to the Jedi Council to protect Padme, which in turn lead to Obi-wan going in search of Jango? Palpatine. Anakin's involvement was an indirect consequence of his disobeying orders, but Palpatine used that to turn the boy by arranging the fights with Dooku that they had. That's why Dooku had the surprised look on his face when Palpatine told him to kill him. That's why the two Jedi were there to rescue him. That's why Dooku tried to kidnap Palpatine before, which lead to a duel between him and Anakin. That's why Anakin and Dooku fought on Tatooine.

There is no assumption. Every action that lead to his becoming Emperor, was born out of his plans. Why you refuse to believe this is beyond me.

1. Padme always had decoys, since her days as queen. That was evident in TPM, when she had all those handmaidens with her. Sabe was the decoy when the Federation entered Theed Palace and again, when they landed on Naboo at the end. Padme enlisted them again because of the threats that had been made. The landing pad was the first actual attempt. Zam didn't know about it until after she received word that it was Corde who was killed.

2. If Zam had succeeded, Jango would have killed her with the toxic dart and then leave. But since she failed, he went ahead and killed her when he spotted her being questioned by the Jedi. Either way, the dart is crucial for the Jedi to go to Kamino. That's why it is employed instead Jango's usual weapons.

3. He was a hired gun. He didn't need to know everything. He was paid to dontate blood and perform an assassination. That's it. Any other action he took, was of his own volition.

4. The Sith were aware that the Jedi would find out where the toxic dart came from. Dooku himself was a Jedi once. He knows how they operate when they come across a road block.

5. In regards to Shaak Ti, there's a reason why Palpatine said this...

PALPATINE: "I realize all too well that additional security might be disruptive for you, but perhaps someone you are familiar with...an old friend like...Master Kenobi."

He personally recommended him and Mace said that it would be possible since they just got back from an assignment.

Dooku tells Obi-wan that Darth Sidious was controlling the Senate in AOTC. In ROTS, Anakin is sent to spy on Palpatine because they believe that he may have been compromised by Sidious.

 

You said:
PalpSidious would have to be some Force demi-god to go undetected from the Jedi his entire life and gaining so much power, that he successfully wiped out both his hated enemies and the government they serve. For this, Obi-wan actually DOES mean that PalpSidious is behind every event ever.

So I asked: For instance if Palpatine was responsible for every event in the galaxy, how did he influence the pod race on Tatooine?

AND YOUR ANSWER IS: What does that have to do with him killing the Jedi Order and shutting down the Republic?

Dude honestly if you don't have an answer or can just admit you were wrong on that point, I have some respect. But don't try to avoid what you said. It's simple, you were wrong for saying "For this, Obi-wan actually DOES mean that PalpSidious is behind every event ever."

You are right in your explanation that Palpatine is behind a lot of the machinations and events in the PT, but not ALL of them. To say that is folly. Regardless of the fact that he engineered the collapse of the Republic, there were many factors out of his control, that either happened outside of his powers, or he just gambled on.

 

darth-sinister you and PMT99 really like to change the subject of the discussion to fit your argument. But that doesn't work on me I don't know about that rant you went on about Anakin fighting Dooku. But my direct point is that Obi-Wan was captured by the Seps because he followed Jango Fett, then Anakin went there to save him. Palpatine was not involved whatsoever. Ask me any question or bring up any point and I will answer it directly. Give me the same courtesy.

 

Regarding his plans...whatever, but let's agree that he never meets or mentions Jango Fett

The landing pad was the first attempt because you say so? Her already having a decoy hints that it isn't. I doubt she has a decoy because she is afraid from the conflict that occurred 10 years ago. How likely is it that the people who want her dead are sending her warning to increase her security? But it is never STATED in the film so that lends your argument some credence. Opinion is opinion. That still doesn't explain what would have happened if she died in the explosion of from the poison slugs. Let's say the slugs kill her, and then Jango kills Zam (a motivation you completely made up) with the dart. How are Obi-Wan and Anakin supposed to tie a random dead body on the Coruscant platform a kilometer away? I'm sure a lot of people turn up dead in a planet of 1 trillion. Soo...

 

You're being a hypocrite here. You say that I'm right but you continue to dismiss both PalpSidious' own admission and what Obi-wan told Padme. Plus, you continue to bring up stuff that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with PalpSidious' schemes like the pod race. How is influencing a pod race going to help PalpSidious eliminate the Jedi and the Republic? He doesn't care about some sport he's never seen before nor does he have time to meddle with whole damn thing. Let's say for your amusement that if PalpSidious did influence the pod race, he'd do it the same way Obi-wan influenced the sandpeople to run away from Luke and the way Vadakin influenced the reek to be a tame animal, by using the Force. As it is, your misquoting what I said about PalpSidious being behind every event because I was talking about all the war crimes that have transpired throughout the prequels. So what if he had a few setbacks, that didn't stop him from succeeding in wiping out the Jedi and the Republic. I get that not everything goes PalpSidious' way but that only happens by the end of ROTJ when Luke refuses to join the dark side while Vadakin bodyslams PalpSidious to the bottom of the reactor core and is electrocuted to death while doing it.

Just because PalpSidious isn't around when the Separatists captured Obi-wan while Anakin went to save him, it DOES NOT mean that he's not responsible for their actions. PalpSidious is their leader and they follow his commands which means that their war against the Republic is all part of his plans, just like he said at the end of AOTC.

Or we can agree that you don't have to meet someone or mention their name to be connected to that person. Re-read my list from an earlier post if you still don't understand that.

Just because Padme has been using decoys for 10 years, it doesn't mean that Jango has tried to kill her before. In TPM, we see Padme using decoys even when she's not in danger and even so, she's not going to jeopardize her own safety in case someone did try to kill her, hence why she always switch places with her decoys. Also, Jango has spent the entire decade making clone armies of himself while Gunray has gone through 4 trials in the supreme court so he couldn't get his revenge on Padme until the trials were over. Finally, even if Padme were killed by the slugs, you forget that there's a probe droid that carried those slugs. If Obi-wan catches the droid, it'll take him to Zam and you already know where I'm going with this.

 

Of course it's not legal. This is Mr. "I will make it legal" we're talking about.

But "legal" is not the same as "right", nor is "illegal" the same as "wrong".

 

I'm not changing the subject. Palpatine was not involved in Anakin going to Geonosis. But, upon learning of the duel between the boy and Dooku, Palpatine began fostering a hatred of Dooku in his mind, so that he would kill him and become his Apprentice. And as to Obi-wan, he followed Jango because he was ordered to bring in the bounty hunter behind the assassin that was killed by said bounty hunter. Actions that Palpatine orchestrated.

The President of the United States has the Secret Service, which are men and women whose job it is, is to secure the President's life as well as the life of his family and the Vice President's as well. Even after their term(s) have been completed, the Secret Service still has people that are sent out to protect the President's life. The royal monarchy in the UK also have guards that protect the family. This is no different with the Queen of Naboo. Padme had the decoys before the Naboo invasion began and continued to employ them afterwards. The subsequent Queens also had decoys as well. Valorum had Senate guards that protected him outside the Senate, as we see when the Queen's ship arrives. Later on, Palpatine employs the Royal Guards to protect him and continues to do so into ROTJ.

As to assassination attempts, since the film never mentions said attempts until then, thus that was the first one. At that point, there were threats. Threats and attempts are two different things.

Zam's body would have been left where the Jedi could find it and an investigation into her, would reveal that she was a professional assassin.

 

Palpatine was behind every last detail. He's a master of time and space!



That's right....



HE'S DOCTOR WHO

 

In TPM she uses decoys because the trade federation is trying to capture her. Not for fun.

 

What about the explosion? What would Obi-Wan do then?

 

So I am supposed to believe that Padme was riding in a fighter ship rather than her Naboo starship because of "threats", which goes directly against what is implied in the film...but I am supposed to believe that Zam's body would have been left at the explosion because YOU say so....

1. There is no need to think that Jango Fett, the proclaimed greatest living bounty hunter, would send "warnings or threats" to Padme. This is akin to Boba Fett sending warning to Han Solo to watch his back before coming after him on Cloud City. Unfeasible.

2. There is no evidence showing that Jango Fett wanted to kill Zam or to be found/followed. If your trail of thought is correct he would have indeed left evidence leading to her...OR BETTER YET DONE IT HIMSELF AND ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE TRACKED. He had plenty of time to kill Zam while she was sending the droid, and shooting at Obi-Wan, and driving her speeder, and running through the streets of the city, BUT instead he kills her right before she SAYS HIS NAME. ODD. Sounds like a guy who doesn't want to be tracked to me.

 

I think we're thinking waaay too much about the plot details.

 

Isn't that what these forums are all about?

 

Yeah, but people will often times get too emotionally invested in the argument and resort to personal attacks. Something I hope I never succumb to.

 

Rise above the influence!

 

The. Power. Is. Yours!!!

 

That leads to the dark side.

 

Is the dark side stronger?

 

If the first assassination attempt had succeeded, the Jedi Council would have discussed which Jedi to send to investigate. Palpatine would probably still propose that Obi-wan and Anakin investigate, knowing full well that the latter had emotional feelings for Padme. Jango would still kill Zam and leave her body where it would be discovered.

On 9/11/01, President Bush flew from Sarasota, Florida where he was doing a promotion for reading education to Offutt Airforce Base in Nebraska. When he departs from there, a decoy plane also takes off, on the off chance that should a fifth attack occur, the decoy would be hit. This was done as a precaution against a possible threat to the President's life. So, yeah, Padme would do that. In fact, that Captain Typho says...

CAPTAIN TYPHO: "We made it. I guess I was wrong, there was no danger at all."

So it was his cause as head of security for Padme's detail. Later in ROTS, Padme has this to say when he wants to accompany her to Mustafar.

CAPTAIN TYPHO: "My Lady, let me come with you.

PADME: "There is no danger. The fighting is over, and...this is personal."

That's the point of a chief of security.

No, it would have been left somewhere else to be discovered. Most likely where Zam and Jango would arrange to meet.

That's because Jango didn't leave threats.

PADME: "Thank you, Master Yoda. Do you have any idea who was behind the attack?"

MACE WINDU: "Our intelligence points to disgruntled spice miners, on the moons of Naboo."

Said miners were either employed or framed, to make those threats. This was mostly to confuse everyone.

You're right, he doesn't want to be tracked. He's given assurance from Dooku that the Jedi won't connect him to the crime. He probably told Jango that Kamino was erased from the Jedi Archives and thus he would have nothing to worry about. But in reality, Jango was being used as much as Zam was. The Sith knew the Jedi to be resourceful and thus would come to Kamino, after doing some investigative work, when the analysis droids failed to identify the dart.

 

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Obvious joke is obvious?