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Art imitating life

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Forcebe, Aug 5, 2004.

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  1. Forcebe

    Forcebe Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2004
    I guess this really encompasses all 6 films, but has anyone noticed the similarities between Senator Palpatine's rise to power and the rise to power of Governor George W. Bush??
    The backstory of Palpatine is how he manipulated his way to becoming Chancellor of the Senate, through trickery (hanging chads) and deception (purging of voter rolls) and eventually declares himself Emperor (President, with the help of the Supreme Court) and disbands the Senate as well as the Jedi, along the way creating a "crisis" (Al-Queda) to give himself emergency powers (Patriot Act) that he will lay down after the crisis is over, because "...he loves democracy, and the Republic...".
    It seems to me the United States of America is heading down that same dark path, and as we all know, "once you start down the dark side forever will it dominate your destiny...consume you it will!"
    Get out and vote. The real "axis of evil" is not the Trade Federation and co, or even the Yankees, but Bush, Cheney, Powell and Rumsfeld.
     
  2. Jedimancer

    Jedimancer Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2004
    AHHHHH!!!! CURSES!!!! You moved the topic. I guess I can just copy and paste my old comments if I really want to.
     
  3. Forcebe

    Forcebe Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Just doing as I was instructed...
     
  4. Jedimancer

    Jedimancer Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Yeah, I know. Oh, well, I'm probably going to be getting off soon anyways.
     
  5. hofie

    hofie Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2002
    I always thought Palpatine looked like Lieberman myself...
     
  6. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    Wow I have seen this topic before.
    First off we have a world history thread and its relation with SW. So if you must discuss I would do so here.

    I don't like Bush,
    but don't give the guy credit.
    Palpatine is very intelligent, Bush is the opposite.
    Palpatine knows how to create a war and use it to his advantage. Bush knows how to create a war and let that war kill him politically.
    They really have nothing in common. Palpatine would be insulted by the comparison (if he existed)

    -Seldon
     
  7. DarthyMarkyMark

    DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2003
    It's an interesting thought - in the AotC commentary, George does say that Palpatine is based on all those politicians who try to start wars to gain popularity and stay in office. Thatcher did it with the Falklands War in 1982 - her popularity was dropping, so she started a war, rallied the country, called an election and won. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush intended the same thing to happen in 2003, but of course, so far it's backfired, with Iraq a complete mess, no WMD, and the risk of terror actually increasing because of the war there. I wonder what the odds are on the terror alert being raised to Red by November, in order to postpone the elections? That's pretty much exactly what Palpatine did, so the next few months will be interesting ... ;) Also, I read somewhere that Trade Federation Senator Lott Dod's name comes from Senator Lott, and that Nute Gunray's last name reversed, Raygun, is a play on Reagan. I think we can guess George's politics from that. :D
     
  8. DS615

    DS615 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2003
    There was an email going around a year or so ago like this. I'll see if I can did it up.

    It started out by listing all sorts of things, some information related, some personality related. It was obvious from the things mentioned that the list was about George W. Bush and his term in office.

    Then you would scroll down and the email told you that it was really talking about Emperor Palpatine. It was interesting because of the assumptions the reader made completely on their own, and how well the two tie together.

    I suppose you could compile list like that for just about any person in a leadership role.


     
  9. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    DarthyMarkyMark: Presidental elections in the United states are always on the selected date. We could be bombed and attacked for months before the election but that election still goes on. Despite any attack, any alert the election will be held on that date.

    -Seldon
     
  10. plutoneam

    plutoneam Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2003
    If Palpatine is like anybody, it's John Kerry



    http://www.hillnews.com/photos/012804/01.Kerry-John.gif]

    [IMG]http://www.creativesoftwareinc.com/starwars/images/palpatine.gif]
     
  11. plutoneam

    plutoneam Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Gah! Image won't work.

    No matter.

    Bush will win the election, and rightfully so.

    The Democratic party is evil. Abortion, gay marraige, gun control, etc.

    It's gonna be legal to marry a dog in three years if Kerry is elected.
     
  12. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    This thread is not a place to discuss John Kerry, who will win the election or different matters within the election. This is a place to discuss the saga and how current politics could be similar to it.

    -Seldon
     
  13. fosh-bantus88

    fosh-bantus88 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2003
    If Palpatine is like anybody, it's John Kerry

    oh my god, your right!

    he is just like palpatine, and he is going to do all the things palpatine would do...

    ...like giving people the right to choose, like helping lift tax burdens on the middle class, like encouraging global unity against terrorism.

    the similarities are glaring!

    afterall, palpatine must be a liberal, he is always plotting to give citizens more liberty.
     
  14. Marcus-Aurelius

    Marcus-Aurelius Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2004
    I don't THINK Lucas based Palpatine on Bush, but I really doubt the filmaker has love for the president.
     
  15. Vaderbait

    Vaderbait Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2001
    I guess this really encompasses all 6 films, but has anyone noticed the similarities between Senator Palpatine's rise to power and the rise to power of Governor George W. Bush??
    The backstory of Palpatine is how he manipulated his way to becoming Chancellor of the Senate, through trickery (hanging chads) and deception (purging of voter rolls) and eventually declares himself Emperor (President, with the help of the Supreme Court) and disbands the Senate as well as the Jedi, along the way creating a "crisis" (Al-Queda) to give himself emergency powers (Patriot Act) that he will lay down after the crisis is over, because "...he loves democracy, and the Republic...".
    It seems to me the United States of America is heading down that same dark path, and as we all know, "once you start down the dark side forever will it dominate your destiny...consume you it will!"
    Get out and vote. The real "axis of evil" is not the Trade Federation and co, or even the Yankees, but Bush, Cheney, Powell and Rumsfeld.



    Riiiiiiiiiiiight.
     
  16. Vaderbait

    Vaderbait Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2001
    Like DS said, you could apply that to any leader really. There is a point where cynicism goes too far. Whether or not you like Bush, he's not evil, and he's done nothing to try and strip powers. If he ever tries to extend his terms to a third, then we can start wondering what's going on in his mind.

    But judging from his past actions, even if he was offered emergency powers that made the senate and judicial system obsolete, I think he'd refuse.
     
  17. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    I think the true comparison that Lucas used was
    Hitler and Palpatine.
    To an extent.

    Please this is not the thread or forum for a political debate.

    -Seldon
     
  18. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    plutoneam: We can manage without homophobia, thank you very much.

    I think that GL said that he has based Palpatine very much on Julius Caesar(sp?). He has most likely been inspired by Hitler and Napoleon as well, since those were the names he mentioned in the AOTC audio commentary(along with Caesar).
    I too believe that he doesn't care much for the Republicans, but I do not believe that he has based Palpatine on any such president specifically. He may have included some political stuff that may be related to the Republican ways, but that might be true for the Democrats as well.
     
  19. Marcus-Aurelius

    Marcus-Aurelius Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Seldon and Lars Muul are correct according to the AOTC commentary. I doubt Lucas would want to drive fans away by allegorising Episode III. (He seems to dislike some Democrats, too, a la Lott DODD.) Besides, Palpatine is a whole lot more intelligent than Bush. The Caesarian, Napoleonic, and Hitleresque qualities in Palpatine are what Lucas wants us to focus on anyway.
     
  20. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    I don't think Lucas bases any characters on modern politics. He may have some themes based on some recent wars such as Vietnam and its influence. I however doubt Bush or Reagan influenced SW.

    On a side now though, Regan loved ANH.

    -Seldon
     
  21. Tokio_Drifter

    Tokio_Drifter Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2003
    I would say (the) starwars presents an 'political' archetype(jung), or idea (Plato).

    An archetype isn't related to a specific period in time, but is rather a universal principle, which can apply in any given time.

    Palpatines arc, seen from a politcal POV, is based upon this idea of politics going wrong. If this is related to Bush, it has to be seen, but i don't believe it is based upon it.

    The specifics may change trough time, but there seems always to be a pattern, yes, even today.

    However, to know for sure? Only after 'all' is said and done, for that is the essence of knowledge.

     
  22. Jedi_Flux

    Jedi_Flux Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2004
    I guess this really encompasses all 6 films, but has anyone noticed the similarities between Senator Palpatine's rise to power and the rise to power of Governor George W. Bush??
    The backstory of Palpatine is how he manipulated his way to becoming Chancellor of the Senate, through trickery (hanging chads) and deception (purging of voter rolls) and eventually declares himself Emperor (President, with the help of the Supreme Court) and disbands the Senate as well as the Jedi, along the way creating a "crisis" (Al-Queda) to give himself emergency powers (Patriot Act) that he will lay down after the crisis is over, because "...he loves democracy, and the Republic...".
    It seems to me the United States of America is heading down that same dark path, and as we all know, "once you start down the dark side forever will it dominate your destiny...consume you it will!"
    Get out and vote. The real "axis of evil" is not the Trade Federation and co, or even the Yankees, but Bush, Cheney, Powell and Rumsfeld.


    Good catch Forcebe, I never really noticed this. I think that you might have...

    [image=http://www.dnr.state.sc.us/cec/educate/img/bullseye.jpg]

     
  23. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Sidious the Sith is very Hitler-esque. Palpatine the Senator is quite Nixonian ( as is John Kerry ). I know they are the same, but of course they act differently.
    If everyone would just inject a little common sense into their veins they would realize that both candidates for the American Presidency are frighteningly similar and that a two party system just doesnt work effectively anymore. That said I think that Kerry is the lesser of the two evils. Sadly, I will not vote for my hero, Ralph Nader, because that is how much I dislike Bush. Nader is truly a great American, is internationally recognized as the man best fit for the job ( and has been for many years ) and probably wont get the kudos he deserves until after his death. The Democrats AND Republicans have stifled him for the last two decades and we the people of America are worse off for it. If Ralph Nader were a SW character, he would be Yoda, and I agree Mr. Nader, absolute power is " Unsafe At Any Speed ".
     
  24. plutoneam

    plutoneam Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2003
    All I can say is that if this is a sad attempt to make Bush look bad, it really comes off as pathetic.

    I don't see where all the hatred for Bush is coming from.
    You really think Kerry is going to be any good? Come on, the man contradicts himself every other thing he says.
    Bush doesn't promote the killing of babies either.

     
  25. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Your screen name is a radioactive material, you think gun control is evil, you call Kerry a baby killer and yet he is the one who blew the whistle on the atrocities of Nam, and your no where close to the voting age. Where the hell are you coming from guy?!?!
    Ill vote ( because Im old enough ) for the guy who volunteered to go to war, not the guy who ducked it and if your planning a career in politics you may want to rethink. They both suck, truth be told, but Ill take the warrior over the coward, especially in this time of war.
     
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