As bad as some people say TPM was but......

Yes. Look at Evil Dead. Worst movie I have ever seen, but it has a cult following.

Actually, Evil Dead bombed, but there are those of us capable of appreciating its brilliance.

 

>>>(e.g. treebeard was in the last film. How silly does it look when Two Towers came out at the same time). Ok Lucas has borrowed from Tolkien but there is a difference between borrowing and stealing. Lucas uses similiar ideas but changes them. Rowland (or whatever her name is) doesn't. She keeps it exactly the same and she claims she has never read Tolkien!!!.<<<

As much as I hate to defend Harry Potter, I have to defend it on this point. Animated trees/magical trees were around in folklore long before Tolkien. She could easily have come up with the idea from different sources. And to try and distance Georgie Boy from Rowling is silly. Lucas dosen't just use similar ideas and then runs with it. In some cases he outright steals, sometimes he'll change just enough to cover his butt. And other times he dosen't even bother.

And in regards to TPM grossing all that money. TPM was not just a movie it was an event. Everyone was hyped up about it. Hell you even had some fools lineing up for months in advance, LOL! There is a reason why AOTC grossed considerably less. It was because the new Star Wars movie was no longer an event. It was just another movie and the gross refelcts that.

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"As much as I hate to defend Harry Potter, I have to defend it on this point. Animated trees/magical trees were around in folklore long before Tolkien. She could easily have come up with the idea from different sources".

True but as Tolkien has been popular for such a long time I thought it was the most likely source. Ok maybe she hasn't read Tolkien and maybe I shouldn't have gone as far as claiming she is lying. Maybe this is a complete coincidence but I don't think so. That is all I said. It is my belief. Do I have proof? No but then again I don't have a police force at my disposal to investigate it. And in regards to the claim that treebeard isn't in Potter because he doesn't talk. So what? A walking tree is in it and that is directly from Tolkien. Could it be a coincidence or taken from something else? Yes but I don't think so. That is my opinion.


"And to try and distance Georgie Boy from Rowling is silly. Lucas dosen't just use similar ideas and then runs with it. In some cases he outright steals, sometimes he'll change just enough to cover his butt. And other times he dosen't even bother".

Yes but the stuff he borrows from Tolkien, he doesn't steal. Sure he steals ideas, especially from Flash Gordon. I have watched some episodes and there is the arena, the sea monster, Cloud City, Luke's fight with the monster at Jabba's place and many other things. But the Tolkien aspecst are changed - that was my point. I wasn't claiming Lucas never steals but the difference is that he admits it. He isn't trying to hide the fact that he uses old ideas while everybody claim Potter is so original - that is the difference. Personally I don't think Potter is that original.

 

A walking tree is in it and that is directly from Tolkien. Could it be a coincidence or taken from something else? Yes but I don't think so. That is my opinion.

No the tree in HP does not even walk. It simply moves in one spot. The resemblance to Treebeard is virtually non-existant. To be quite honest Tolkien borrowed heavily from Norse mythology for the concept of walking and talking trees that fight. He also got inspiration for the Ents from Shakespeare.

Let's not be too hard on Rowling for recycling ideas when Tolkien himself was doing the same thing.

 

"Let's not be too hard on Rowling for recycling ideas when Tolkien himself was doing the same thing".

I have to agree with QuiGon here. What bugs me is that everybody thinks the ideas are so original. That it has never been done before. That is my main problem with the novels. Tolkien and Lucas never pretend that their ideas are 100% original because they know it wasn't.

 

Most stories aren't 100% original. A lot of fantasy writers use orcs and goblins and stuff. Just as long as stories don't have the exact same plot (unless their by the same LAZY author) I think it's okay.

 

What bugs me is that everybody thinks the ideas are so original.

There are original ideas within Harry Potter just as there are within Star Wars and LOTR. No the ideas are not all 100% original, nor does anyone that I am aware of pretend that they are. If you don't like it, fine. Just don't put words in the mouths of those of us who do like it.

Now that having been said, let's try to get this thread back on the subject of TPM's box office performance.

 

"Now that having been said, let's try to get this thread back on the subject of TPM's box office performance"

Agreed.

 

What never ceases to amaze me is that some people claim that "Star Wars is dead", or "the PT has been forgotten".

That, to me, is like having an elephant in your back yard and claiming there is no elephant. Ignore the elephant all you want, guys.

TPM and AOTC's box office gross alone proves that they made a big splash, that they were phenomenal successes rising head and shoulders above the other films of the time.

Nobody is simply going to 'forget' a movie that earns that kind of money.

AOTC's detractors point out that it made less, adjusted for inflation, than the other four flicks of the saga. This is true. However, sitting within five places of it on either side are Temple of Doom, Ghost, Aladdin, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest... pretty good company!



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TPM is one of the most under rated movies I believe I've ever heard of since the hype died... True, before it's release it was larger than it needed to be. But, now the only reference made to it that I hear from other people (except the boards, that is) is negative. Just the other day, I watched the Simpsons and there was a random shot of Homer's co-workers arguing over whether or not TPM or AOTC "sucked more". Neither of them sucked, if you ask me.

 

"Lucas dosen't just use similar ideas and then runs with it. In some cases he outright steals, sometimes he'll change just enough to cover his butt. And other times he dosen't even bother."

I agree.

 

Let's face it, no film has ever had the kind of built up hype that TPM did. Fans were already claiming it a failure after just hearing a 2 second clip of Jar-Jar speaking. Some high profile critics actually went against their signed word and released their scathing negativity a week before it's release. Between the negative fans and the critics, there was enough negative flack to kill 4 movies at the box office. They did everytying they could to kill it, and it still chimed in at 2nd highest gross world wide. To me, that means TPM was an exceptionally good movie to survive that kind of intense scrutiny.

To this day, I still don't understand why some people didn't enjoy it.

It is a very well made movie. At least as well made as any of the classic trilogy films, if not better.

 

The weird thing is that despite all the perceived negativity about TPM from critics etc., it got mostly positive reviews.

Same with the OT. Lucas likes to say it was a critical failure, and while there are certainly a boatload of nasty reviews of the OT floating around, I'd say it got, say, 70, 75% positive coverage.

Nothing on the order of a 'critical darling', but some very complimentary stuff amidst the hatred and derision.

I think Lucas just got a bad taste in his mouth about critics from THX and Graffiti (which really did take a beating from critics) and decided they hate him.



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Nice stuff Go-Mer.

 

TPM made a packet in the USA. International figures only have it at 8th behind Titanic, the LOTR films, the Potter films and even Independance Day for crying out loud.

I think it's a brilliant effort for such a crap film and I'm at a loss to explain why so many people saw it other than the huge hype.

 

No need to be at a loss.

TPM has a very high "re-watchability" (is that a word?) rate. You don't bank USD431mil if you're movie sucks. EVER!

 

"I'm at a loss to explain why so many people saw it other than the huge hype".

Because it was a brilliant film and much better than anything that came out in 1999 or since. LOTR is brilliant but to me TPM is better. I know some will attack this position of mine but that is my opinion (and yes I think AOTC is also better than LOTR).

 

Arno,
I feel the same way. SW is above anything. Where LOTR is 2nd

 

Well, if you are counting box office to decide what is a good film, the LOTR trilogy is better that the Star Wars prequels trilogy.

Personally, I happen to think that the LOTR films are pretty much the best films made in the last 30 yrs.

 

I think Box Office has nothing to do with a good movie. I also think critical response has nothing to do with it either. All I care about is do I like it.

That having been said, I think FOTR is one of the greatest films I have ever seen.

 

I agree. I don't care about box office figures either. Independance Day made a lot of money and I thought it was one of the worst films I've ever seen. To me, box office doesn't prove anything.

 

Ah yes.... ID4. What a piece of ****. I almost walked out.

 

ID4 is a very entertaining popcorn picture. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Not even that. Piece of ****.

 

I really liked ID4. Good summer fun. Not as good as SW maybe (though it's clear with the Death-Star-attack-like tactics used to destroy the ship that they were trying), but fine stuff nonetheless.

I liked Jeff Goldblum and his father best. And ya just can't go wrong with Harvey Fierstein.



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