As bad as some people say TPM was but......

Me I stood up and cheered when Fierstein died. One of the most annoying characters in the history of the world.

 

Armageddon is a good example of a real piece of **** summer film. Independence Day is a fun summer blockbuster.

 

I also almost walked out of Armageddon. It's about equal for **** with ID4.

 

Nah, Independence Day doesn't resemble an MTV music video gone berzerk. All hail President Whitmore!

 

I freaking love Armageddon.

I know I shouldn't, but I do.

It's just so incredibly fun. I know it's stupid (and that's okay). I know that most of the emotional content it generates is completely manipulative and hackneyed and cliched. But it's FUN.

Even if I feel guilty watching it with a biiiiig grin on my face.

Michael Bay is a hack. But he is a VERY GOOD hack, who often turns in enjoyable and entertaining pieces of hack filmmaking. He knows his craft very well and hands it over without pretension of creating something loftier. And the result is far better than what you get from less accomplished hacks without the same ambition or vision.

It's like buying a hamburger. You can go down to the local Burger King and get one off the grill, and, eh. Or you can find a big roadside diner and get yourself a big ol' cheeseburger with a heap of thick crispy fries and a chocolate milkshake.

All hacks are not created equal.

I would actually really like to see Bay do something without Bruckheimer, because I sometimes wonder if he could benefit from a more intelligent script and project.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

With his kind of shooting and editing style, Bay should stick with music videos and commercials.

 

I would actually really like to see Bay do something without Bruckheimer, because I sometimes wonder if he could benefit from a more intelligent script and project.

I think he had his chance with Pearl Harbor, a script by Braveheart scribe Randall Wallace. (and I loved Braveheart) But I think Bay really screwed it up with Pearl Harbor. It was his chance to legitimize himself in Hollywood but he ended up becoming even more of a laughing stock. If it were not for The Rock (great movie) I would've said Bay has never produced anything that great. They're slick, sometime pretty to look at movies, but he needs to grow up more as a real filmmaker or go back to making car commercials for Honda.

 

"Well, if you are counting box office to decide what is a good film, the LOTR trilogy is better that the Star Wars prequels trilogy."

Actually, If you count BOX OFFICE, REVIEWS and AWARDS, the LOTR trilogy is better than Star Wars Prequel Trilogy (thus far).

BOX OFFICE

The Fellowship of the Ring - $867.1
The Two Towers - $921.2

The Phantom Menace - $925.6
Attack of the Clones - $648.3

AWARDS

The Fellowship of the Ring - 4 Oscars, 13 Nominations
The Two Towers - 2 Oscars, 6 Nominations

The Phantom Menace - 0 Oscars, 3 Nominations
Attack of the Clones - 0 Oscars, 1 Nomination

REVIEWS

The Fellowship of the Ring - (94%) 171 positive, 10 negative
The Two Towers - (98%) 191 positive, 5 negative
The Return of the King - (98%) 86 positive, 2 negative

The Phantom Menace - (63%) 125 postive, 72 negative
Attack of the Clones - (63%) 91 positive, 54 negative



Of course, only you should decide which movie is good for you, but from a general perspective, LOTR is better. I'm glad we have both, even though I feel the prequels are heavily flawed.

 

Why is it that when LOTR/PT pissing contests are posted on these forums, the bashers conveniently ignore the fact that LOTR is also beating the OT? (Certainly in reviews... seems to be the case for awards, though there were fewer awards back then. I think the OT still might have a hold on box office.)

If we must have a pissing contest, let's not try and make out the PT as Lucas' SOLE failure to piss farther than Jackson.


EDIT: Just looked something up. Seems T2T got more Oscar noms than ESB did.
Beware, PT bashers who wave Oscar nominations around as signs of PT failure, for when you do so, you point the same finger at ESB and Kershner and all that you believe was the best of the saga.
And if that's your opinion, that's your opinion, and I'm fine with it. But tread lightly. Tread lightly.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Nobody is ignoring anything. Relax and take a breather.

A New Hope

Academy Award Nominations: 10
Wins: 7, including Special Achievement Oscar

Reviews - (92%) 36 positive, 3 negative

Box Office: Actual - $798, Adjusted - Over 2 billion

The Empire Strikes Back:

Academy Award Nominations: 3
Wins: 2, including Special Achievement Oscar

Reviews - (98%) 46 positive, 1 negative

Box Office: Actual - $534.2, Adjusted - Over 1.5 billion

Return of the Jedi:

Academy Award Nominations: 4
Wins: 1 for Special Achievement Oscar

Reviews - (80%) 32 positive, 8 negative

Box Office: Actual - $476.0, Adjusted - Over 1.5 billion

Of course all of those reviews were taken when the Special Edition was released, but it shows a better critical approval than the prequels. The OT did very well at the OSCARS with ANH obtaining more than FOTR and ESB earning 2 just like TTT. When adjusted for inflation, the OT made more than the prequels and LOTR combined. So overall, the OT and LOTR kill the prequels in every category. Happy?

 

When adjusted for inflation, the OT makes more than the prequels and LOTR combined. So overall, the OT and LOTR crush the prequels in every category.

You can not use adjusted for inflation for movies. That's not what it's there for.

Adjusted for inflation only works with a hand full of things. Movies are not one of them.

I don't care what year it is someone things happen and one week TESB is number one the next another movie is number one.

It does not add in the fact that some many things are going on. So the adjusted of inflation will never work.

Here's a link to a site that talks about the http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/virgin/151623_virgin09.html

Which heck if I was working for a company and did that I would be fried for change the amount of money that was really made. If a compnay makes let's say $229 million that's it. I can not use adjusted of inflation to make it higher. That is me giving more money then we made.

 

I rank OT and LOTR both up there. I actually posted a comparison of LOTR, OT, and PT in the Basher's Sanc. so I wasn't conveniently leaving off the OT, and thanks DarthMaul13 for posting them too. The OT actually has more Oscar wins than LOTR, higher box office intake (I think that will change), and pretty good reviews overall, but LOTR has them beat in that category.

As for "adjusted for inflation" -- it's a fact, it is more helpful method of gauging actual movie theater attendance.

Unless you can tell me for sure more people saw "Beverly Hills Cop" than "Gone With the Wind", which is what your favored list is telling me.

 

it's a fact, it is more helpful method of gauging actual movie theater attendance.

No it's not did you even go to the site that I left the link to. it dose not work because you can't give something more money. That's looked fixing the books. That's illagel to do. You can't fix the books to give yourself more money then you made.

Unless you can tell me for sure more people saw "Beverly Hills Cop" than "Gone With the Wind", which is what your favored list is telling me.

It made more money that is all. But what you are doing is giving somethig more money then it made.

Again you own a company you make let's say said company makes $500 million. That's it that's your end total. You can not add more money to that. That is called fixing the book and that is illagel. Look at Enron they did just that they used adjusted for inflation to give themselevs more money then they had. You can't do that. Take a markting class, a busniess class you learn these things.

Adjusted of Inflation does work only in the Stock(sp) market.

 

Well, if you are counting box office to decide what is a good film, the LOTR trilogy is better that the Star Wars prequels trilogy

Well if you beleive this, then TPM is better then any LOTR film.
I only think BO determines popularity more then quality of a film.
I for one thought ID4 was great! It was definitely a great popcorn flick.

And I truly do not look at the Oscars for the quality of a film. They pick some stupid movies sometimes. That is another thread all together.

And if you are going to go the Oscar direction, then Titanic blows all out of the water. Won Best picture, #1 at the box office, tons of noms also. Titanic beats out LOTR and PT. And according to some this means Titanic was a better film then LOTR or PT

 

"So overall, the OT and LOTR crush the prequels in every category".

Not true as the last post showed. TPM was more popular (in USA) than both the LOTR films so far. And of course nothing will equal the popularity of the OT. But one thing I don't understand - why the position of attacking the PT or LOTR. Isn't possible to love both.
Personally I think TPM/AOTC are better but that is only because they are my favourite films ever. After them comes ANH/EMPIRE. Then the trhree LOTR films and finally ROTJ. I like them all and yes Star Wars is better - but only just.

P.S.: I love Independence Day when I first saw but I haven't seen it in a very long time. But Armageddon sucked.

 

Yes Hrafn it is possible to love any amount of movies. Popularity aside, BO #s aside. I love SW and LOTR. Who gives a rats A$$ where they fall in the BO. I have thePT and LOTR on DVD. That is all that matters to me.

 

Well, if you are counting box office to decide what is a good film, the LOTR trilogy is better that the Star Wars prequels trilogy

Not only that but it also means that Men in Black is better then FOTR.

Edit And Twister is better then The Fellowship of the Ring

 

Ive always thought SW is better than most movies, as none of the SW movies rely on showing flashbacks, to what I call "baby" the audience. I suppose other movies call for it, but as time passes it can be overkill on some cases. IMHO ofcourse.

 

"I would actually really like to see Bay do something without Bruckheimer, because I sometimes wonder if he could benefit from a more intelligent script and project."

The moment Bay gets a chance to film a love scene between a man and a woman, as soon as they kiss they'll blow up in a firey explosion with a rapid succession of quick edits and electric guitars wailing in the background.

"as none of the SW movies rely on showing flashbacks, to what I call "baby" the audience"

Speaking of 'babying' the audience, Lucas decided NOT to kill Han because he thought the children wouldn't understand.

 

When I say "baby" means spoonfeeding.

So much animosity, quite disturbing really

 

This thread is not another LOTR/SW comparison thread. Let's try to keep it from becoming that.

 

Not only that but it also means that Men in Black is better then FOTR.

Edit And Twister is better then The Fellowship of the Ring

I don't know where you get your delusions.

Those two films are nowhere near the BO of FOTR.

 

Uruk-hai, you = wrong.

Remember that all box office discussion is "from a certain point of view".


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Meh, adjusted USA domestic figures. So what. Adjusted income is simply a flawed idea. You cannot compare income in different eras.

Let's try this, I'll just add up the amount of money I paid at the BO for each.

Me = right.

 

"Personally I think TPM/AOTC are better but that is only because they are my favourite films ever. After them comes ANH/EMPIRE. Then the trhree LOTR films and finally ROTJ. I like them all and yes Star Wars is better - but only just".

I have actually changed my mind. I just saw ROTK and it is the greatest cinematic achievement ever. The greatest film ever made. While I'm sure Star Wars will always be my favourite films of all time and that I will watch them more often than LOTR, I admit that ROTK is the greatest film ever made. ROTK is superior to the other LOTR films. This film could gross at least 400-500 million. It is that good.