Amph ASOIAF: "A Clash of Kings" Chapter-by-Chapter: Chapter Thirty-Two: Sansa

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by Nevermind, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    Stannis is a complete hardass, and I like that despite being the one nobody really supports or wants to see become king he is still sticking around 4 books later. Plus he's the only king-contender that actually cares about the ice zombies and the possibility that he won't have a kingdom to rule. Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken should be his personal motto.

    Melisandre isn't a demon though.
  2. timmoishere Force Ghost

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    To Cressen, she is. He fears that the religion he has followed all his life is being replaced by this alternate faith, and he is such a zealot of the Seven that he wants to eliminate any nonbelievers.
  3. severian28 Force Ghost

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    This prologue has major ramifications to the overall story thats not immediately apparent. Cressen is the only person known in that world that stopped the grey scale from killing someone that was afflicted by it
  4. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

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    Bad news for Griff, too.

    It's absolutely typical of Stannis that he should utterly despise the houses that support him. He wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would offer him membership; he wants the cool kids to love him, even while railing against their superficiality in supporting Renly.
  5. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    I've seen no evidence he cares about this at all. He moved North in a desperate grasp at legitimacy that he couldn't get any other way. Once there, his only meaningful intervention was against a hated enemy of the Northern houses that helped curry their favor. Afterward, he lost himself completely to politicking, except it was only more stupid and unjustifiable this time in that A)he had more evidence of an actual threat B)he seemed willing to make moves that would decimate the Brotherhood more quickly than decades of anyone else's active neglect (ie No one thought it was an over-reaction when they smuggled away Aemon to prevent Stannis from using him as a human sacrifice) and C)he's playing for regional rather than national stakes. You are literally praising him for doing less, with less justification. Never mind that this is all driven by the fact that he's in the thrall of some sort of weird perverted sexual thing.
  6. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    I got the impression from DwD that there are two versions of the disease, and Shireen's survival wasn't particularly uncommon.

    The grey plague is the version Connington has, and that's worse.
  7. timmoishere Force Ghost

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    Wasn't there someone at the Wall in ADWD who was completely freaking out when he saw Shireen, though?
  8. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    That was Mance's wife; the wildlings kill children with grayscale because they think it will come back as the gray death. No evidence on whether that's true or not, it could be superstition.
  9. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

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    His SIL, wasn't it? Val. She kept insisting Shireen was dead.

    Chapter One: Arya

    Summary: Arya (age 9) joins the Black Watch and beats up two hobbledehoy thugs. With a wooden sword. Check your skepticism at the door.

    Some Thoughts: See Summary.

    For ye Fangirls: See Summary

    Where Have I Seen This Before? Dept: David & Goliath

    Fantasy Tropes: Action girl

    The Awesome Scene Syndrome Dept: See Summary

    Improbability Dept.: See Summary.

    Clanging Coincidence: I?m guessing the Bull is Gendry.

    Too Much Information: ?with his breeches brown and smelly?

    Unfortunate Mental Image Dept: ?she lunged, right between his legs, so hard that if her wooden sword had had a point it would have come out between his butt cheeks.?

    What we learn: Eddard was supposed to take the black

    What I liked: Yoren actually punishes Arya

    What I didn?t (in particular): This chapter is completely unbelievable.

    Criminal Record: One poisoning; one thrashing;

    POVs to date: 2

    Arya's character arc to date: Is given razor-sharp dangerous sword/Is allowed to keep razor-sharp dangerous sword/Goes cat-catching so that she can help out with Bad Exposition/Uses razor-sharp sword to commit her first murder at age nine/Witnesses Dad?s decapitation/beats up thug until he soils himself/

    Rating:1/5

  10. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    Yes, I always get confused between Val and Dalla (though Dalla is dead.)

    And these two thugs that Arys beat up are 11 or 12, are they not? Not like she trashed some bandits.
  11. severian28 Force Ghost

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    Yes. Its the same disease and Cressen was the only person that we know of that was able to stop it spreading through a person unless i missed something, which is totally possible :)~

    Arya (age 9) joins the Black Watch and beats up two hobbledehoy thugs. With a wooden sword. Check your skepticism at the door


    They're children, shes trained with a sword, and its quite established that she has great apitude to be martial. I'd be skeptical if it went the other way.

    This chapter is completely unbelievable.

    Whats unbelievable is the way you selectively suspend your disbelief ;-), not that this chapter requires that at any great length, lol...
  12. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

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    A prepubescent female is very small, and has little to no physical strength.

    Here's the scene from the TV show (through the magic of YouTube)

    Arya and the Bullies

    Now the kid who plays Arya here was born in 1997. She's 13 or so at filming, and even with *that* the scene is just barely believable with four extra years.
  13. Sniper_Wolf Force Ghost

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    Funny stuff so far, Nevermind. I'm a fan of the series, but I don't take myself too seriously. I felt ACOK was the best one, and that Martin did try to improve the length of his chapters. Cheerio. I'm ready to read more. I also agree on Arya. I just skip her whenever I reread the books.

    Re the chapter: Not to be the Devil's Advocate, but as someone who has an eight year-old sister I have to back Nevermind on this one. I'm around too many of them to believe that can happen. This isn't a child shooting a gun from behind.
  14. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    Arya's pretty battle-hardened despite having not really done much battling.
  15. Kyptastic VIP

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    How is this scene barely believable? She gets pushed around and then threatens a bully with a proper sword. No real strength required.
  16. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    In ADWD we are told that the Gray Death always begins at the extremities. Shireen's never been mentioned as having any problems with her hands or feet, it seems to have gone straight to some part of her face/neck. I never got the impression that Shireen was totally unique for having survived; people tend to think how sad it is she is cursed with scarring as well, not 'wow, at least she survived this invariably fatal disease'.

    I'm sure they're related somehow, cowpox/smallpox style, but I'm not convinced they are the same disease.
  17. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

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    The Grey Death seems to be based upon leprosy, I would guess


    . In the book, she used a wooden sword, not the real one.
  18. Kyptastic VIP

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    Ah, gotcha. Thought you meant that the scene from the show was unbelievable.
  19. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

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    No; it's *more* believable than the book, because the TV producers cast all the younger characters four to five years older than the book, according to the posters upthread. Good idea, definitely.
  20. Kyptastic VIP

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    Well, Martin did say previously that he wished he hadn't made the children so young at the first place and that the shows ages are a better fit for the actions they take.
  21. timmoishere Force Ghost

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    The girls' ages are important to their arcs in books 1-2, though. Arya masquerades as a boy, and Sansa is waiting on her first "flowering" to be able to marry Joffrey.
  22. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

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    It's absolutely typical of Stannis that he should utterly despise the houses that support him. He wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would offer him membership; he wants the cool kids to love him, even while railing against their superficiality in supporting Renly.

    That's Nixon, all right.

    Now the kid who plays Arya here was born in 1997. She's 13 or so at filming, and even with *that* the scene is just barely believable with four extra years.

    Told ya the series was better. :D
  23. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

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    Chapter Two: Sansa

    Summary: Joffrey has a birthday bash.

    Some Thoughts: I supposed that Sansa would not appeal to a female audience; shows you what I know. Martin is a far shrewder judge of the zeitgeist than I am. When I checked out ASOIAF fanfics, which character had the most? Yup, Sansa. In fact, Sansa/Sandor Clegane is the favoured trope, called San/San. God in heaven. I think I need bleach for my brain.

    The Edward Bulwer-Lytton Memorial Award: ?The morning of King Joffrey?s name day dawned bright and windy, with the tail of the great comet visible through the high scuttling clouds.?

    Truer Words Were Never Spoken Dept: ?I should like to see that, Your Grace? [Sansa?s reaction to Joffrey?s telling her he?s challenged Rob to single combat.] and ?As loyal as a deer surrounded by wolves.?

    Where Have I Seen This Before? Dept: George, Duke of Clarence [supposedly drowned in a butt of malmsey wine]

    Fantasy Tropes: Bodyguard Crush

    Le Mot injuste: ?...look at that upjumped oaf...? It?s ?jumped-up?.

    The Department of Silly Names: Jalabhar Xho, Lothor Brune

    Not thinking it out: Sansa believes Ser Arys is virtuous, because he actually *argued* before he hit her. That?s chivalry indeedy.

    What I liked: Sansa has figured out that the Lannisters are snakes

    What I didn?t (in particular): This goes on and on to very little point

    Criminal Record: a poisoning, a thrashing,

    POVs to date: 2

    Dimwittedly watches fiancee humiliated/Stupidly watches tourney while villains expose their innermost thoughts/Idiotically protests the prospective breaking of her engagement to an inbred psychotic/Moronically betrays her entire gene pool/Dazedly pleads for Dad after betraying him completely/Foolishly tells her flaming nutbar fiancee that her brother will give her his head/Oddly prefers a polite beating/

    Rating: 1/5
  24. timmoishere Force Ghost

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    There is a point once you realize exactly who Ser Dontos is and who he works for.
  25. severian28 Force Ghost

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    I supposed that Sansa would not appeal to a female audience; shows you what I know. Martin is a far shrewder judge of the zeitgeist than I am. When I checked out ASOIAF fanfics, which character had the most? Yup, Sansa. In fact, Sansa/Sandor Clegane is the favoured trope, called San/San. God in heaven. I think I need bleach for my brain.


    Its no wonder you dont like this story going about reading it in this manner lol. Sansa is a great, great character - not at all typical. Your right - Martin is a really astute student of popular, but what your missing with the fractured reading and basing your opinions on other peoples opinions and ASOIAF blogs is that hes trying to expose OUR zeitgeist by creating his own zeitgeist that mirrors it and the conflict resolution of this story , in my opinion , will be a societal and cultural reimagining or breakdown. Its a meta story about meta itself, to me anyways. Thats whats i find novel about it.