Amph ASOIAF: "A Clash of Kings" Chapter-by-Chapter: Chapter Thirty-Two: Sansa

Did you completely miss out on the significance of Bran naming his direwolf Summer, then?

 

You tell me what it is, then.

 

Try re-reading the chapter. It is very clear.

Bran initially had trouble finding a name for his direwolf. While asleep, he had a vision of endless winter, which terrified him. Then a warm glow enveloped him, and when he awoke, the direwolf was sitting there. The warmth of the wolf helped drive the memory of the terrible cold away. Thus, he named the wolf Summer.

Bran's relationship with Summer is very important for the story, and if you can't even understand what's going on the first time the pair bond, how can you expect to comprehend the rest of the story?

Perhaps instead of skimming over the chapters looking for grammatical errors or odd sayings or silly names, you could try actually reading the chapters and understanding what is going on.

 

I guess I need "ASOIAF for Dummies".

 

I appreciate the self-deprecating humor, but no -- you need to try actually reading the chapters and understanding what is going on, instead of skimming over the chapters looking for grammatical errors or odd sayings or silly names.

 

Chapter Sixteen: Catelyn

Summary: Catelyn meets a former admirer.

Some Thoughts: Why didn't the King travel by ship if its so much faster?

For ye Fanboys: Descriptions of the city.

Where Have I Seen This Before? Dept: The Emerald City in "The Wizard of Oz"

Typos: 1

Speaking Forsoothly: "...my own Maester Lutwin has seen to my hurts."

Bad dialogue: "A wife is allowed to yearn for her husband, and if a mother wants her daughters close, who can tell her no?"

Purple Prose: "His flesh was soft and moist, and his breath smelt of lilacs." Between Varys' breath and the Targaryen eyes, those old lilacs do get a workout.

Le Mot injuste: "...the others would never again be dexterous."

As You Know, Captain: the Petyr Baelish narrative between Catelyn & her sidekick

It's So Good I have to repeat it: "Winter is coming."

The Department of Silly Names: Moreo Tumitis

Characterization: Varys is an ambulatory and unsubtle cliche.

What we learn: The dagger supposedly belongs to Tyrion Lannister.

Not thinking it out: See above.

Criminal Record: 2 murders, 1 execution, incest, treason, two attempted murders of a child, child endangerment by proxy, pimping, pedophilia, indecent exposure, 12 knifing deaths at a wedding reception, 3 child murders, one wolf kill, one wolf attack, one wolf execution.

POVs to date: 8

Catelyn's character arc to date: Complains about husband's bastard/Complains about husband's bastard/Foils assassination attempt on her son/Is told the assassin's name by her ex-boyfriend and an eunuch/

Rating: 2/5

 

Because Robert likes hunting, wenching and avoiding his wife, which are difficult to do on a ship.

 

This

 

Chapter Seventeen: Jon

Summary: Life lessons

Some Thoughts: The plot is moving at a snail's pace.

For ye Fanboys: "I'll break the other one if you ask nicely." The audience always likes a Marty Stu figure to crack wise, though in real life, people think up these witty quips a day or so later.

Where Have I Seen This Before? Dept: The Great Wall of China/Hadrian's Wall/The Land Walls of Byzantium

Grammatical Errors/Typos: N/A

Speaking Forsoothly: "I'll be fifteen on my name day. Almost a man grown." That one again. A man grown what?

Bad dialogue: "Well piss on the stories, and piss on your wet nurse."

Purple Prose: "The courtyard rang to the sound of swords."

Le Mot injuste: snarks (The Hunting of the Snark (An Agony in 8 Fits)

As You Know, Captain: Noye's dialogue

It's So Good I have to repeat it: It's cold, chilly, biting, etc. etc.

The Department of Silly Names: Jeor Mormont

Characterization: Jon has to learn to get on with his peers, the rapists, the halfwit, and yokel.

What we learn: The Night Watch is in decay/Brandon II is okay (it rhymes!)

Not thinking it out: Volunteering for celibacy.

Criminal Record: 2 murders, 1 execution, incest, treason, two attempted murders of a child, child endangerment by proxy, pimping, pedophilia, indecent exposure, 12 knifing deaths at a wedding reception, 3 child murders, one wolf kill, one wolf attack, one wolf execution.

POVs to date: 8

Jon's character arc to date: Gets drunk/Has shindy with his stepmother/Gets an attitude adjustment/

Rating: 2/5

 

i have trouble seeing what's so purple prosy about that one. it's pretty standard from what i've seen...

 

Okay, so due to virus issues, I've been more absent than usual of late. But while I haven't been posting a lot, what I have been doing is dealing with fallout from this thread in PMs every time I login.

In the interests of not having the same debate numerous times with different individuals who dislike this thread, I am posting here a PM I sent to the first person to complain to me in PM about Nevermind's assaults on A Game of Thrones. I appreciate the PMs I have been sent on this thread and, to be perfectly frank, this is the most engaged I have seen people in the Amp in a very, very long time. That is appreciated. Here follows a rationale for allowing this thread to continue; I hope this will clarify that Nevermind isn't getting away with this thread just because he's a Mod and also that this thread as unique in the annals of the Amp as some have suggested. I have edited this PM to make the formatting clearer and to specifically note the places where I address some concerns that have been raised in PM (and also in this very thread) by other users.

Addressing The Tone of "A Game of Thrones" Chapter-by-Chapter

Some people have taken issue with the snarky, sarcastic, opinionated and (as interpreted by some) mean-spirited tone of Nevermind's posts. What I will say to this is that I am also generally incredibly snarky and sarcastic and dismissive in my book by book threads (which Zaz has clearly modeled his chapter by chapter thread on somewhat), like my EU thread in Lit or even my Batman thread in the Amp; in both of those I spend a lot of time making fairly vicious fun of the works I'm looking at. I'm thinking of other generally negative review threads as well, including two that I think stand as absolute classics and must reads: Darth Holliday's epic long form takedown of the EU in "A Good Scene for the EU in Episodes II & III," and "We Hav to Take a Trip With Jacen Solo," Havac's fantastic, and also controversial, thread in Lit which sort of coined the whole 'snark' thing on the boards. The mostly negative review thread can be incredibly entertaining and, in the long run, may even serve to replace more serious discussions; I think you get a clearer view of Jacen Solo and his character's problems in the Snark thread than in any other serious thread in Lit. Yes, the tone here is overwhelmingly negative and dismissive; this is not a problem.

Addressing Nevermind's Failure to Respond Adequately to Other Posters in "A Game of Thrones" Chapter-by-Chapter

This criticism has also been leveled at this thread, namely that Nevermind fails to really engage with other posters in any kind of real debate or go into great depth in his reviews. Now, I do try to engage with posters in my threads, but I also ignore posts sometimes to avoid being bogged down in lengthy debates that will sidetrack me from the project at hand. A helpful way to look at "A Game of Thrones" Chapter-by-Chapter is to think of it like a blog where the writer posts his reviews and then people respond in the comments. The writer doesn't always engage with the comments, though sometimes he does. But in the comments, you can express your opinion and, if the need arises, more or less dismantle the arguments of the blog author, which several posters have done very well in the thread at various points. Once both opinions have been aired, isn't it up to the reading audience to decide where they stand, whether there is a lengthy debate or not?

Addressing Nevermind's Failure to Acknowledge that Some of His Assertions in "A Game of Thrones" Chapter-by-Chapter Are Not Supported by the Facts

For instance, there is the issue that Nevermind states on more than one occasion that Eddard Stark is a gloss on Richard III. Other users have posted in-depth rebuttals of this argument, but Nevermind continues to state this as his opinion. It has been stated that Nevermind should have to recant opinions that have been factually rebutted. I do not agree with this and here is why: Art is all subjective, still, and if Nevermind feels that Edd

 

Chapter Seventeen: Eddard

Summary: Eddard finally arrives. As usual, he's way behind the action.

Some Thoughts: Why would either of them trust Littlefinger?

For ye Fanboys: The brothel.

Where Have I Seen This Before? Dept: N/A

Grammatical Errors/Typos: 1

Speaking Forsoothly: "We are but five." Martinese for "There's only five of us."

Bad dialogue: "This is not some strange jape of Littlefinger's?"

Purple Prose: "...he smelled as foul and sweet as flowers on a grave." When it comes to over-cooked similes, that's almost Chandleresque.

Le Mot injuste: platinum...all the other metals mentioned are ancient ones.

As You Know, Captain: "Lord Baelish, I am a Stark of Winterfell...."

It's So Good I have to repeat it: the plot of the last chapter but one (it's catching!)

The Department of Silly Names: Helman Tallhart and Galbart Glover

Characterization: At the end, Eddard says he will get proof of Jon Arryn's murder, and go to Robert. Who has not supported him in the slightest so far. Well, judging people by what they say instead of what they do *always* makes sense.

What we learn: The kingdom's heavily in debt, and Robert's still spending.

Not thinking it out: See Characterization.

Criminal Record: 2 murders, 1 execution, incest, treason, two attempted murders of a child, child endangerment by proxy, pimping, pedophilia, indecent exposure, 12 knifing deaths at a wedding reception, 3 child murders, one wolf kill, one wolf attack, one wolf execution.

POVs to date: 8

Eddard's character arc to date: Executes some poor working-class slob/Feels angsty about executing some poor working-class slob/King Robert wants Eddard as his Hand/Robert gets Eddard as his Hand/Eddard executes a harmless wolf/Eddard feels angsty about executing a harmless wolf/

Rating: 1.5/5

 

I presume they're describing the someone's hair in this chapter, with 'platinum', since I can't recall anyone referring to the metal. In which case, would you prefer he came up with his own phrase for the hair colour 'platinum blonde', and then explain what it means? (IIRC, platinum is derived from the Spanish for silver anyway.)

Besides which...pre Colombian Americans used platinum.

 

They're not. It's the Maester's collar.

Discovered 1740's.

 

My wife bought us the first book last night to read to her. She thinks the TV series is just great, and I think it's right up there with the best shows ever created, and we're not even into the second season.

She got me some of Harlan Ellison's works -- "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream", and "The Beast That Shouted Love At the Heart of the World".

Now, let me be clear: so far as I've read, the TV show actually works better than the book. And in the great stand-off between George RR Martin and Harlan Ellison, there is just no comparison. Ellison destroys Martin hands down.

But then, Ellison destroys most writers hands-down, and we're looking at his best work. And you know, I've read a lot of crappy stuff in my time. This is really not crappy. It's not the be-all end-all of books by any means. But so far, Martin aquits himself fine.

Also, I think it is incredibly, INCREDIBLY silly for anyone to look at a piece of fiction and say "oh, you know where I saw this before? History." Well, DUH. Call out William Shakespeare, why don't you? Maybe I could see a point there if Martin were yet another writer making yet another WWII analogy, since that era of history is so obvious in its influence on us. Seriously, even drawing on WWI at this point is practically an innovation these days in writing technique.

But for Martin to draw on the Wars of the Roses? Even if he was doing that a lot -- of which there is distinct disagreement -- well heck, why not? I'm sorry, I must have missed the last great War of the Roses reality TV extravaganza. If someone is using something that little-talked about event and incorporating it into a story that regular people are going to read and watch? Damn, I say go for it.

 

For some reason that I have not yet been able to comprehend, Martin's constant use of the word "jape" really grates on my nerves.

 

The sudden appearance of the word 'nuncle', repeatedly, in the 4th book is what gets me.

Platinum wasn't *discovered* in 1741, it was first scientifically investigated by Europeans. 16th century writings mention it. Anyway, given that we have 'magic steel that never rusts and makes swords that never need sharpening', and I would lay odds that only the Grand Maester has platinum, it's suitably rare enough in a world with magic to not be too horrible. Maybe they used to refine it with dragonfire.

 

Chapter Eighteen: Tyrion

Summary: Tyrion leaves Castle Black.

Some Thoughts: A Tyrion chapter generally means lots of talk, very little action, a lot of self-pity, and all sorts of PC notions that are diametrically opposed to the zeitgeist of this world as presented.

For ye Fanboys: Manly bonding including ye farewell handshake.

Query: Wouldn't they bow? I guess pipping your eye would be Too Much, though.

Where Have I Seen This Before? Dept: ESB

Grammatical Errors/Typos: 0

Speaking Forsoothly: "Come here and make your japes with steel in your hand." Japes again. *Sigh*

Bad dialogue: "I misremember."

Purple Prose: "Out there the trees grew huge, and the rangers said that they seem to brood and knew not men." Brooding lesbian trees?

Le Mot injuste: "Ser Alliser Thorne walked from the room so stiffly it looked as though he had a dagger up his butt." Buttocks, surely?

As You Know, Captain: Mormont's recruitment into the Watch.

It's So Good I have to repeat it: Winter is coming (If that damned Winter doesn't arrive soon, I'll go kriffing crazy.)

The Department of Silly Names: Ser Jarmey Rykker, Jyck, Yoren, Yohn, Bowen Marsh (yet another name suitable for an Edith Wharton novel)

Characterization: "I think he is a giant come among us..." Based upon what? Drinking, whoring, and talking? But ancient blind seers cannot be denied.

What we learn: The summers last nine years or more. So does mean that the harvest takes nine years to ripen? And if it's summer why is it snowing?

Not thinking it out: Tyrion is described as 'cunning' right before he makes an enemy of Ser Alliser Thorne for no reason. This is known as telling but not showing.

Criminal Record: 2 murders, 1 execution, twincest, treason, two attempted murders of a child, child endangerment by proxy, pimping, pedophilia, indecent exposure, 12 knifing deaths at a wedding reception, 3 child murders, one wolf kill, one wolf attack, one wolf execution.

POVs to date: 8

Tyrion's character arc to date: Slaps nephew/Talks too much/Duels with crab forks/

Rating: 2/5

 

Summer's finishing and they're at the equivalent of the Artic Circle.

And no it doesn't mean the harvests take 9 years to ripen.

Do you try and fit all magical fantasy worlds into Earth's climate patterns?

 

only comment at the moment is that yohn is a real name. it's a variant of john.

 

Everyone "mislikes" and "misremembers" things in this series. It drives me crazy.

 

I just want to thank Rogue1-and-a-half for putting that thorough explanation together, and thus saving himself another PM in his inbox.

This.

 

Chapter Nineteen: Arya

Summary: An Arya chapter. Damn. I was hoping for Daenerys, as her adventures are so ineffably absurd they have a certain dopey charm.

Some Thoughts: Nothing much happens, which is increasingly common in AGOT chapters.

For ye Fangirls: The Hand fashion statement.

Where Have I Seen This Before? Dept: N/A

Grammatical Errors/Typos: 1

Irony: Arya's sword is named Needle. Get it?

Speaking Forsoothly: "You shan't be wanted." Martinese for "You won't be missed."

Bad dialogue: "One hand now is all that is needing."

Purple Prose: "This is not the iron dance of Westeros we are learning."

Le Mot injuste: N/A

As You Know, Captain: "You are...a Stark of Winterfell" and "Sansa is your sister." Thanks, Dad!

It's So Good I have to repeat it: "Winter is coming" #19. Got it the first time. And the second time. And the third...

The Department of Silly Names: Syrio Forel.

Characterization: Here we get a snapshot of Eddard's parenting skills. Having noted that Arya has the 'wild streak' that led to the early deaths of his brother and sister, Eddard duly encourages it. I think he's trying to tell you something, Arya. Having also noted that Joffrey is an evil little creep in embryo and if she marries him, Sansa will have a monster-in-law in Cersei, Eddard doesn't immediately break off the engagement and get the hell out of Dodge with both daughters. I think he's trying to tell you something, too, Sansa.

Here we also get a snapshot of Eddard's leadership skills. "Don't ask your men to die for a stranger," he says. But do expect them to die, because you have arranged for them to be heavily outnumbered in a hostile environment.

And finally we get a snapshot of Eddard telling his men that he disapproves of the tourney. Way to support your employer, Edd. That'll impress him.

What we learn: See 'Characterization'

Not thinking it out: Arya wishes she could climb like Bran and escape out a window. Yeah, and what happened to him?

Criminal Record: 2 murders, 1 execution, twincest, treason, two attempted murders of a child, child endangerment by proxy, pimping, pedophilia, indecent exposure, 12 knifing deaths at a wedding reception, 3 child murders, one wolf kill, one wolf attack, one wolf execution.

POVs to date: 8

Arya's character arc to date: Is given razor-sharp dangerous sword/Is allowed to keep razor-sharp dangerous sword/

Rating: 0.5/5

 

What is so bad about those lines? That's simply the way Syrio talks. Check this scene from the show and you'll see how his accent fits the dialogue perfectly. And for the record, Syrio Forel is an awesome name.

 

It is very stereotypical 'look at this man speaking a foreign language' phrasing though.