"Assisted Suicide?"

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by big_boss_nass, Nov 9, 2004.

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  1. big_boss_nass Tucson FF Founding Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2001
    star 4
    As many of you know I don't post here much, but I just got finished with a Government law project that had to deal with assisted suicide. I was a lawyer and I had to argue John Ashcroft's side that it is against the law and will not be tolerated in the United States. The opposing lawyers had to argue (for the state of Oregon) why it should be ok. I was curious to some of your arguments on why it would be fine for someone with a fatal illness to sign papers saying it was fine to kill them. Also why do some of you agree with the government and say that it wrong no matter what?

    Here is a link to an article about the trial

  2. Java_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 4
    You got me thinking back to the whole Kavokian [spl] thing. IMO...

    Assisted Suicide...

    I can see how many ppl would have different opinions on this topic. I can understand the decision to self-terminate life to some degree. I think it should legally be the choice of the patient. Counceling should be requiered, but the choice should fall to the person with the illness.

    I feel the same about DNR's and Living Wills. If a person will have no real quality of life, then why not? I don't see the point of forcing someone to suffer for years on end with pain that will not ease, because of someone elses morality or feelings.

    If the patient is of sound mind and understands that this will void life insurance, ect, then I feel it is the Dr. responcibility to be there. They are sworn to "do no harm", but imo doing nothing at all and allowing the suffering to continue is doing just that "harm".

    I by no means am talking about pain that can be relieved or simple refusing treatment that can help and opting to die. In those cases, if they really are bent on ending life, they will regardless. But if a person is at the point of No quality of life I think that having closure and going with dignity are choices they should be allowed to have as human beings.

    btw... very interesting topic. :)
  3. Jedi_Master_Anakin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
  4. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    Wow, interesting project to say the least. However, my views on it haven't changed. I remember when I read an article on this based from the JCC several months ago.

    Death will come on it's own accord. Much like abortion, "assisted suicide" is murder. When another human deprives another of life, it is murder, even if you did order it on yourself. And suicide, well, it shouldn't even be attempted in any situation. No matter the pain, you've got to live your life.
  5. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    KAVORKIAN!!! Yes!!!

    Actuallly I think it's wrong. Anyway you look at it.
  6. foxy_kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    I just hope that it's all nice and legal when I am 70 years old and wearing a nappy. [face_worried]

    Or when I'm 40 and can't recognise my own family because I am so spaced out on morphine.

    And so on..
  7. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    I believe in assisted suicide on demand.
  8. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    No matter the pain, you've got to live your life.

    Even if you're basically a vegetable? Why should they suffer if they don't wish to?

    It's legal here, and I think that was a pretty good decision by our government.
  9. Branthoris Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2002
    star 3
    I am one hundred percent in favour of assisted suicide. Those who wish to die because of a terminal illness should not be denied that choice simply because they are physically unable to kill themselves. By continuing to ban voluntary euthanasia, the state forces terminally ill people to continue living in unbearable pain--and exposes them to die unexpectedly and painfully, rather than with dignity at a time of their choosing.

    Terminally ill patients should be allowed to die with dignity. My mind goes back to the tragic case of Dianne Pretty, a British woman with motor neurone disease who was predicted to die, in any case, within the following few months (which she did). She wished to die peacefully, surrounded by family and friends. Unfortunately, her husband faced prosecution if he helped her take the drugs necessary to bring her life to an end. He was refused an assurance that no action would be taken against him, were he to do so. As a result, Dianne Pretty carried on with her minimal quality of life, and suffered a painful death from her disease in hospital.

    How pointless.

    To be sure, there are dangers of abuse, but I think the opponents of assisted suicide have vastly exaggerated them. Safeguards can and should be put in place to avoid a situation in which vulnerable old or disabled people could be pressured into killing themselves (although I do find it hard to believe the notion that this would be a common occurrence in any case). Those proposed by Lord Joffe (who introduced legislation to legalise assisted suicide in the UK) would involve certification of the patient's state by two doctors, and certification of his mental competence by a solicitor. I see this, first and foremost, as an issue of human rights, and the theoretical prospect of abuse does not justify requiring the terminally ill to continue living in unbearable pain against their will.
  10. big_boss_nass Tucson FF Founding Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2001
    star 4
    I feel strongly about this topic. Murder is murder, even if you are granted concent. I believe that in Oregon the way to preform assisted suicide is by injecting lethal amounts of drugs. What kind of message is this sending 16 year old boys that have just broke up with their girlfriends and want to die because they think their life is over?
  11. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Murder is murder, even if you are granted concent.

    Nobody grants me consent to end my life, just as no one grants me consent to live my life. It is my right to live, therefore it is also my right to die.

    What kind of message is this sending 16 year old boys that have just broke up with their girlfriends and want to die because they think their life is over?

    Are you suggesting that giving terminal patients the ability to "pull the plug" will contribute to an increase in suicides among the general population? I doubt that...when one is considering suicide, the thought of whether or not it is legal has little bearing.
  12. Branthoris Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2002
    star 3
    big_boss_nass, murder is what the law defines it to be. Your argument that "murder is murder", therefore, is effectively as follows: (1) assisted suicide is illegal, (2) therefore, assisted suicide should be illegal. I do not understand that mode of reasoning.

    As to the message sent to 16-year-old boys: I do not think that allowing terminally ill patients to die with dignity encourages suicide generally. Turning the issue around, what message does it send that a 16-year-old in the prime of life can legally choose to end his life, but a terminally ill elderly woman cannot?
  13. JarJar Slayer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2000
    star 2
    Several years ago in Australia, a fuel truck went off the road in a remote area. The driver was trapped and unable to be moved.

    A high way patrol officer was one of the first on the scene. The spilt fuel caught fire and the fire truck was a long way away.

    The driver begged and pleaded for the officer to shoot him or throw him the gun to shoot himself. The officer could not comply with this request because it is "illegal". He stood there while the driver burned to death.

    Now where is the sanity in that? And I ask all you people who are so high minded and say murder is murder,
    What would you want if you were the driver?

    It's real easy to judge others when you don't have to be in their shoes (or burning truck) isn't it?
  14. somethingfamiliar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 5
    What kind of message is this sending 16 year old boys that have just broke up with their girlfriends and want to die because they think their life is over?

    I doubt it would send any message; but if it did send the message that a lethal dose of drugs is the hip new trend in suicide, that'd be an improvement from the current favored methods for 16 year-old boys, which are much more bloody. I doubt that would happen, though, because I really think the motive for suicide of a depressed 16 year-old boy is a wholly different thing from that of terminally ill person. One wants dignity and peace, the other wants to send a message to alert others that he existed in a provocative way.

    I think you should have control over your life or death. I mean, you already do, really. Having a doctor there simply makes it more foolproof.

    At any rate, wow, we as a culture have such an overblown fear of death. If we picked up just a teensy tiny bit of the Romans' veritable obsession with it, we'd probably be more healthy.
  15. Ker-Soth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2004
    star 3
    Well, about that murder thing. Bodyguards of VIPs (I mean Presidents etc) are expected to throw themselves in the path of a bullet to save their employers. Policemen and Firemen loose their lives willingly everyday to save someone else. How can these things be viewed as acts of heroism and worthy of medals, and at the same time a person trying to leave this world with dignity is hunted like a spawn of Satan?

    I believe this is an act of a confused society, a trait well defined in the modern Western civilization. I'm Europian and I'm sorry for butting in but the topic is interesting and I thought i'd throw my two cents.

    sidenote:Is there some specific reason that most threads in the Senate are about America? Most of the times I feel I'll insult someone if I post.
  16. darth_paul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    Ker-Soth - It's simply because most users, I believe, are from America, so American issues are centermost in most of our minds. No one will ever be offended by outside input, though sometimes we may look at you funny, ;). And certainly we'd all be interested in European Issues, global issues, non-national issues, etc. that you'd propose discussing.

    -Paul
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