1. Welcome, Guest

    Upcoming events: Supanova: Melbourne (10th-12th April), Gold Coast (17th-19th April)

    Oz Comic Con: Perth (11th-12 April), Adelaide (18th-19th April)

Oceania At Last, a view I can agree with

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by UmmYep, Sep 26, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. UmmYep Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2001
    star 3
    I'd imagine that I am going to cop some flak from this, but hey, it's here...

    http://www.fredoneverything.net/NewYork.html

    This is, in my opinion, the best thought out responce to the New York... Happenings... That I have seen.
  2. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5


    The most well thought out response for me was choosing the voice of Darth Vader (JEJ) to lead a peace vigil ...


    Now if that's not food for thought, I don't know what is.

  3. Kahlan72 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2000
    star 4
    Yeah I guess I can be the first to send the flak you expect to cop.

    I hope that tha world view this person puts forward represents less people than it probably does. I hope that maybe one day... maybe when our Grandchildren's grandchildren look back on us, they see people searching for a way to stop killing each other, rather than people lashing out at their own people for their lack of the killer instinct.

    Perhaps we can't fight a war on these people's terms because we have tried to move beyond the hatred they feel. Perhaps they will always have the upper hand in the war they fight because they are willing to give up things we are not. Things like freedom, growth, knowledge, tolerance, and love. If we are to lose this war, or it is to continue to be a battle that will be fought for generations to come, just as it has been for generations passed, because we cannot fight these pepople at their level, than I would rather we did not win, if winning means becoming what they are.

    There has to be different ways to change the world than to do things we should not do, and become people we would rather not be.
  4. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    Kahlan, in theory I'd agree with your peaceable views. But in practice, what would become of those who did not stand up against the warlike races?

    Stains on a map of the world; tallies on the number of conquered countries. Like the deer that can't handle a rifle, there would be nothing left safe a head above the mantlepiece for the Afghanis to say "Oh, look, we took down America"

    I'm afraid natural selection exists even in humans, and it's a competitive world. If you can't grow and change to overpower others, you face extinction.
  5. Kahlan72 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2000
    star 4
    The thing is, part of me knows all that to be true. I just wish with all my heart it could be otherwise, and maybe if some of us hold on to that ideal view, things may not follow the path they look set to follow.
  6. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    As far as I'm concerned, the terrorists have won,
    the only reaction so far to this act has been to pretend the WTC never existed.
    Go ahead, change spiderman, take flight sims off the shelves and never again let us watcxh Die Hard, it only proves that in any attack on democracy we are too willing to blame ourselves.
    Ok, they are ********** nutters, but the attack was not cowardly, they struck in a professional manner.

    And so should we.
  7. UmmYep Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2001
    star 3
    I'm sorry, but I tend to be a cynic when it comes to human nature.
    I always hope someone will suprise me, but nothing so far...

    Jees that sounds pompous dont it??? I sound like an Old Fart!!
    AARRGGHH!!!
  8. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    if you think you only sound like an old fart, you should take that peg off your nose :p
  9. Ki-Bara-Mundi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    While there's some things that I agree with there, I particularly don't like that people are classifying the attackers as Muslims and Afganis. Muslims make up a large portion of the world's religions, and I think I can safely say that the organisation that committed the acts doesn't have the support of all of the Muslims worldwide. I was pleased to hear Bush say in his address to the US Congress that the terrorists "blasphem the name of Allah". Also Afganis are trying to overthrow the Taleban government, so I wouldn't say they support the terrorist acts.

    SM, I totally agree when you say that they've won. It's gone so far that they've taken SONGS off the radio! US radio stations aren't even allowed to play "Walk like an Egyptian"!!! They've definately disrupted life in America, an effect the would no doubt have been aiming for.
  10. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5

    Sith Magician - I'm gonna have to disagree with you there: the attack was professional, but it was also cowardly.

    The people responsible - not the people who did it, but the people who funded and organised and trained and orchestrated the attack - don't have the courage to be held responsible for what they did.

    According to the CIA, it's typical bin Ladin behaviour: he warns that something will happen, something happens, then he denies responsibility for it and runs for the hills.

    To me, that's a coward.


    Of course, it happens in the US too. A prominent religious leader, the "reverend" Jerry Falwell, went on a christian tv show hours after the attacks, said that the attack was an act of God because the feminists, pagans, gays, lesbians, ACLU, abortionists, and people who took the Bible out of American schools etc, mocked God through their behaviour, that he pointed his finger at them and they should bear some of the responsibility for what happened.

    Then a few hours later, he called CNN and said that he never meant to suggest that any of those people were responsible for the attacks, and if they thought he did, he was sorry.

    Cowardice comes in many forms.
  11. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Yes it does, however, I feel it's time to stop kidding ourselves about the society we live in, we breed and educate ourselves to become victims.
    My 11 year old nephew was attacked outside his school by 4 kids his own age, they held him down and beat him up enough so that he couldn't stand.
    One of the boys then told him today was the day he was going to die, they shoved him out in front of traffic and tried to have him run over by a car.
    My nephew managed to grip one of them in a headlock and prevented himself being a victim of murder.
    When the matter was reported to the police, and then the school, the police said it happened on school grounds with children under 14, therefore the schools responsibility, all children, including my nephew, were suspended. In my nephew's case, the schools reasoning was that he incited violence by fighting back attempting to save his own life, acording to the principal, he was supposed to let them have their way and take the matter up later.

    I think it's high time we in the western world pulled our collective heads out of our asses and came to terms with the fact that there are times when it its acceptable, nay demanded, that we fight back.
    And if this not that time, then someone please tell me what is.
    And in reference to them being cowards, at least the rag heads are willing to acknowledge that they are at war and are willing to die for their cause
    Which is fine, because I'm more than willing to kill them.
    That is my job after all, and the sooner the politicians pull their fingers out of their peaceknick vote seeking asses, the sooner me and my work mates can get down to it.

    Peace? I'll bring you fricking peace.
  12. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    sue the school. they wouldnt stand a channce.

    and call the police ombudsman. they cant be allowed to dismiss what happened.
  13. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    DD, it's being pursued with the minister of eduacation by my brother, the next step is my nephew gives me names....
  14. Lord_Lazarus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2001
    star 1
    OK..... I have a slight problem here. I don't neccessarily agree with the attacks, but I don't disagree with them either.

    I'm not involved in thier holy war and it is not my place to say whos imaginary friend is better.

    But the comments of cowardice are getting to me.....

    I personally found it to be the best piece of terrorism that the world has seen to date, and until bin Laden can be proven to be the brains behind it, I think that we have to assume that the hijackers are the end of the line until someone is proven to have done it. And that being so...... they are some of the bravest people I know, willing to die for a cause they believed in.

    Look this is not me agreeing with terrorism, this is just my opinion, and I am sick to death of ill informed people going on about "how cowardly it was" just because they don't agree with it. Look at it objectively people. Hate the act of terrorism, but acknowledge the skill and planning involved. Don't flame other people because they CAN acknowledge it.
  15. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    And don't forget, the attack was directed at a country that perfected the art during the gulf war of sitting in choppers beyond the horizon, launching heat seeking missiles at enemy troops, as well as their own in some cases...
  16. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5


    Cutting an unarmed woman's throat is brave.

    Yes indeed.


    I salute them.


    That's a real man for you.
    Big cajoles.

  17. Kahlan72 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2000
    star 4
    Can we just stop this thread now please.
    If this is supposed to be a PG thread, talk of murder and overt violence has no place here really. please guys?
  18. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    Oh, come on. It's the real world ... these things ACTUALLY HAPPEN.
    This thread was about a violent issue. Terrorist attacks and acts of war can't be discussed as all roses - the issue here is in itself about violence.
  19. Kahlan72 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2000
    star 4
    Hey people have sex around the place too and we can't discuss it here. I just felt it was getting a bit too graphic for this forum is all.
    Not opposed to discussing it.
  20. slaveone_2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2001
    star 5
  21. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Who cut a throat? I don't remember that being mentioned in this attack, if you are referring to*********in general, the that sort of thing goes on in the western world too,
    And I see the point here has been missed, I am not cheering their efforts, on the contrary, they should fry in hades for this. But lets stop treating this as some kind of tragedy we have to move on from, we were attacked, yes WE!. Our way of life, our freedom of speech, in a series of moves towards banning any form of entertainment that involves buildings in the background and songs that simply have nothing to do with this. I mean walk like an egyptian has been banned in the US, wtf is that all about?
    We are now expected to let them get away with this simply due to a lifetime of being told to turn the other cheek, stuff that, wipe them out.

    Oh, and Kahlan? who's forcing you to read this?
  22. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5


    SM: It was in just about every report I heard - local news, CNN, newspapers.

    They c-- the throats of the hostesses with the "knives" they smuggled on board.

    How do they know? The folks on board with cell phones rang their families / friends and told them what was happening.

  23. JediEnna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2000
    star 4
    I was going to post my opinion but I think this thread is getting too volatile.

    I will state that bombing Libya is one of the most bizarre solutions I've heard so far.

    And please don't flame Kahlan for being offended. The thread does not state in the title what exactly it is about, perhaps some people will read it and be offended. These people also should be allowed to give their opinion.
  24. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    My original point still stands, lets stop talking about this like an unfortunate tragedy, it was an attack by terrorist forces on the western world.
  25. Ghost_of_Caesar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 4
    I have to agree with SM on this. What happened was not a natural disaster like an earthquake or a cyclone. It was an act of war, declared by persons as yet unknown (at least to the extent that we can prove it).
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.