Senate Atheism 4.0 - Now Discussing: Religiosity and intelligence

Discussion in 'Community' started by Lowbacca_1977, May 18, 2010.

  1. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    I think the article is misleading because it states clearly that the Judge is a Muslim, when in fact the Judge is a Christian, so the comments appear to be biased. The comments weren't necessary but Judges often go off on tangents. Being a Judge can be extremely boring so letting off a bit of steam from time to time is normal.
  2. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Umm...unless I'm missing something, the article states that Judge Martin is a Muslim:


    Argh. Guess I should have read the comments. :p

    Here is the video:

    Link

    Having viewed the video, I feel the need to call myself an idiot. The video does not show evidence of much of anything, the article calls it a "Halloween parade" which brings to mind just, you know, a Halloween parade as opposed to a couple of guys going around in deliberately offensive costumes...etc.

    Anyway. It still doesn't really matter (I'm going on a strictly theoretical junket, now) if the assault was provoked or not. Assault is still a crime here; if there is some other evidence besides that video, the defendant really ought to be going to prison or at least on parole with community service. Given that the supposed victim in his own words was able to continue walking for three blocks, I doubt he was seriously injured, not to mention that the video barely moves-you wouldn't even know he was being assaulted if he wasn't claiming he was. Not much of an assault, although shoving does count as assault in at least some states here.
  3. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I watched the video too, but still feel that since free speech is protected, the judge should have also informed the Muslim guy (since he took it upon himself to inform the plaintiff about Islam) that in America, we have two things he didn't have in his native country--free speech and a separation of church and state.

    Intersting to see if there will be an appeal and if so, how it turns out.

    But, the article is very misleading.
  4. DarthIktomi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2009
    star 4
    I've been hearing a lot from my cousins about the Family (trying to establish a theocracy, but being very secretive about it; they'll note where you and they agree and slowly work on you from there) and premillennial dispensationalists (Christians who support Israel so Jesus will come back and kill all unbelievers) taking positions as chaplains; traditionally, military chaplains are supposed to be nondenominational. They're supposed to avoid trying to convert people, both because that ruins unit cohesion and because that puts the government in the role of endorsing religion.

    But since premillennial dispensationalists help the military-industrial complex hype up the Islamic fundamentalist threat, and hyping up said threat to the point of lunacy is the best way to get more* funding, you can guess where this is going.

    *Should be "moar" (as they don't really need more, but would like it anyway), but to be honest, 4chan is more civilized in its dialogue than some of the American right.
  5. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Anyone still have any desire of reviving this thread?
  6. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I do read it though I might not always participate.
  7. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
  8. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Pandering. I hate it, and I was gladd to see it was not universally accepted by those in attendence. But I am not surprised by the affirmation and such.
  9. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    I am slightly, but not entirely, surprised to see that the Democratic leadership felt they needed to ensure that they are a party of God. Jabbadabbado, I slightly disagree as in my view, it's not that I need a party to be atheistic, but I do expect it to be secular.
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  10. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    It did provide a much needed moment of Schadenfreude for the Republicans.
  11. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    I understand why they did it, they didn't want this to be some sort of religious election. But given that the non-religious are making up a greater part of our society should at least have lent them some cover for getting rid of the archaic language.
  12. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Gov. Strickland said: "I am here to attest and affirm that our faith and belief in God is central to the American story and informs the values we've expressed in our party's platform,"

    He is most certainly not correct. The "American Story" includes non-belief and belief in other deities as well, and to place his deity as being central to this country is ridiculous. Also, a large number of Democratic values are secular.
  13. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    It's sheer cowardice, imo. And they're just scrambling for excuses now.
    Last edited by Lowbacca_1977, Sep 7, 2012
  14. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    It's amazing how relevant God is in American politics. For such an advanced country, it's almost bewildering. Sadly bewildering.
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  15. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I agree about the cowardice and pandering. But I also agree that it's in their interest to reflect the beliefs of most of their voters, Atheists may be a larger percentage of the population than we let on, but we're by no means a voting bloc, at least not yet. It may come to that eventually. It would be great if there were more democrat politicians willing to stand up openly for the interests of secularism.
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It's not really that bewildering if you accept that America isn't really all that advanced ( except technologically ).
  17. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Yeah, who said humanity as a whole was emotionally that advanced.

    And we're way more advanced technologically than emotionally, but still at about a Type ZERO civi technologically.

    So we have a loooong way to go.
  18. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    Jabbadabbado, I think the point that misses, though, is that this really isn't an issue of atheism vs theism, it's an issue of secularism. That is something that there are also plenty of religious people supporting it, it's not just an issue of atheists. I think it does a disservice to simplify it down to atheists = secularists.
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  19. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    "emotionally advanced". plz excuse me while immolate myself
  20. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    I think someone a while back did make the argument that since humans come up with religious belief that we might be genetically predisposed to religious belief. Personally I think a more rational explanation is that the human brain is trained to see patterns whether they exist or not and that our religious beliefs are just an outgrowth from that only taken the wrong way through the lens of a past culture.

    People choose what they want to believe, including the belief that their choice of belief is more deserving of government protection than, say, they sexual orientation, which they say is also a choice but for which there is far more support for being biological.
    Last edited by Obi-Ewan, Sep 23, 2012
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  21. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    I'd say it's not so much biology versus choice so much as it is the way we as human beings sort ourselves into groups, and these groups become significant because of how they're treated. There's groups like "gays" or "blacks" or "Jews". You could take the view that everybody is a unique individual and therefore this sort of grouping is arbitrarily sorting people according to certain common characteristics, but that's not how our society operates. When people are singled out for persecution because of a certain characteristic they share with other individuals, then that's a group that is being persecuted, and that's a group that needs to be protected.
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  22. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Here it is in all its glory, the new report on religious affiliation from the PEW Forum on Religion and Public Life

    The age of American protestantism is officially over. Evangelical and mainline protestants are for the first time an absolute minority of the population.

    20% of Americans have no religious affiliation. We're still far behind western Europe in secularization, but this latest report helps explain why the religious right is becoming increasingly shrill in its calls for a more theocratic nation. Young adults are the most unaffiliated, so it's easy to see this trend continuing into the medium term future. A third of young adults have no religious affiliation.

    You can see the shift in my own family. My parents were mainline protestants. Their siblings' children, who mostly stayed in the southern U.S., trended toward evangelical christianity. I'm unaffiliated but married a catholic. My children are completely unaffiliated.

    Although there are still fewer Roman catholics than protestants, catholics have been the largest single faith in the U.S. for a number of years. 22% of Americans are catholics and 19% are evangelical protestants.

    Finally, finally, finally, there are fewer evangelical protestants than people with no religious affiliation. I know: no religious affiliation is not the same as atheism, but it's a start.


    Congratulations, Americans! We're taking those baby steps toward living in a more reality-based universe.

    On the other hand, and if you include the Mormons, nearly three quarters of us associate with some brand of Christianity. So we still have a long way to go. Martin Luther's Reformation finally dies its long, slow death with the decline of American protestantism after having devolved to its most debased and corrupted form in American evangelical protestantism.
    Last edited by Jabbadabbado, Oct 9, 2012
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  23. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
  24. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The fundies have to try something. They've failed badly with the most recent batch of young adults, according to the PEW report. This looks like it could be a fairly good marketing campaign. But is it going to turn the tide? No. Parents and family tradition are the big determiners for religiosity. There is so much white noise of school clubs and extracurricular activities in public high schools that no freaky evangelical kid with a snappy Youtube video about Jesus is going to make much headway. Except in Alabama.
    Last edited by Jabbadabbado, Oct 9, 2012
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