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Senate Atheism 4.0 - Now Discussing: Religiosity and intelligence

Discussion in 'Community' started by Lowbacca_1977, May 18, 2010.

  1. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Jul 13, 2008
    I'm glad there's some interest in the book club; there's mountains upon mountains of material that's been written about what science is, why we should or shouldn't do science, how we ought to think about science, and the like, and I think it'll be fun to talk about it on the boards. Or I'll just have an excuse to read the stuff. Either works for me, it's a bit manipulative.

    That's definitely true, but in my meager defense I wasn't thinking about any one person in particular when I was writing my rambling diatribe up there, I was commenting on a more general trend I'd noticed on the various sites I peruse that I've had bitter, dismissive opinions about for a while now. Though I was absolutely getting particular with reference to that stupid cat in a room image from the Theism/Atheism thread, because ugh. Ugh.

    Nine times out of ten my thought process on these things is that I jump immediately to frustration, then try to back off that teeth grinding level because, really, should I expect everyone to have massive amounts of formal education in Topic X? But then while I'm writing a response I get frustrated again and it's ultimately a vicious cycle. I think that's an unfortunate place to be in so I'm trying to rectify it. I might fail, that's life.
  2. DT421

    DT421 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 6, 2003
    I guess I'm still trying to understand how and when science has seemingly become the leading antithesis (Perhaps for lack of a better term at the moment) against religion.

    Reason being, when finally asked on the subject (Usually by co-workers) about my faith, or religious affiliation, I'll kindly tell them that I have none. The immediate response of late seems to jump immediately to something of the thought of "Oh, so you think science is the answer to everything?" Or "You believe in science."

    Believe in science?

    I'm not in the field of science, nor do I claim to know much at all about it. Yet I still arrived at my understanding that there is no god. I don't, nor could I understand to, proclaim science as being my vehicle for being atheistic.

    Perhaps the immediate jump to such a conclusion about science, by the folks that ask such things of me, is due in some degree to science causing people of faith to scramble to modify, or reinterpret, ideas, thoughts and even texts, to keep their faith up to date and still viable. Science, I feel, has chipped away at certain old long-held beliefs - evolution vs creationism, being the center of the universe, age of the Earth, etc... I believe that science for some time has filled in the "gaps" of knowledge, where ignorance once reigned. The whole "God of the gaps" scenario, where knowledge lacked.

    "How is there fire?" "There must be a god of fire!" Then science provides answers for the hows and whys regarding fire and someone's belief system is under attack.

    I guess people get defensive about it because it chips away at what it is they believe in. And for many, it is felt that who you are is what you believe in.

    I generally try to avoid these types of discussions with people of faith. I find more times than not that my stance just makes people dig their heels in even further and makes them more unreasonable and irrational.
  3. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Feb 18, 2001
    Sure but the issue I have, and this is for your benefit too Jabbadabbado, is that there's an element of basic hypocrisy at work which I think we can do without. Taking a kind of big-picture view, the reason why we formed a social religion is that we need to come together over elements of the unknown, and over elements of mystery and awe.

    When people come along and say, "lol @ religion, science has all the answers, science is objective, science is right" yet can't accurately explain the science they're championing, then they are doing little more than the very thing they are opposing from the faithful. If you don't understand it, that's ok - but have the decency to see that the basic premise - "this approach seems sound to me, it ticks my personal boxes, and I believe it has the answers to all my questions". God, science, at this point it's just as arbitrary as picking a football team and declaring yourselves the hero and others the villain. Hiss at the villain, for nobody likes them.

    So, Good Jabba, the only point I'm interested in here is a little honesty and integrity. Saying "you don't know" and asking questions is absolutely fine and natural and human. Passing yourself off as an expert who is the intellectual superior to someone who has the same faith you do, just in a God, well... it's not ok.

    I spoke earlier in this thread about atheist churches popping up in the US, and so I don't think I'm wrong on this one.
  4. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Mar 19, 1999
    A nice exchange in NYT as part of an ongoing series:


  5. Hank Hill

    Hank Hill Jedi Knight star 2

    Feb 9, 2013
  6. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Force Ghost star 8

    Apr 17, 2006
    I can feel the euphoria that guy radiates all the over here.
  7. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Aug 18, 2002
    watched the first 10 minutes or so, its actually not as terrible as that guy's appearance would suggest
  8. Hank Hill

    Hank Hill Jedi Knight star 2

    Feb 9, 2013
  9. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Force Ghost star 8

    Apr 17, 2006
    God Don Lemon and that other woman are total morons. Also why does Reza have the bad luck of always having really stupid people interview him?