PT ATOC: ending Anakin's confession on "I hate them" without Padme's response

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by BigAl6ft6, Nov 21, 2012.

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  1. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    This is an odd one but when ATOC was originally released in theatres (back when they came on reels and the non-digital version) the sequence when Anakin confessed killing the Tusken raiders ended with his "I hate them" declaration and up with the Darth Vader classic "bah bah bah" theme & then cuts to the funeral outside the homestead. But subsequent releases (and I think I heard also on the digital theatre release of ATOC which was way, way smaller back in 2002) had Padme's "To be angry is to be human" "I'm a Jedi, I know I'm better than this" bit. Anybody notice this for the past 10 years or is it just me? It always stuck with me because I always thought leaving the scene on the uber-menacing bit was more effective. Although, to be fair, you kinda need the understanding bit from Padme at the end, although her response seems a bit pat. Considering he just confessed to slaughtering Tuskens. But he does classify them as animals and they did kinda kill his mother.

    Anyway, yeah, anybody else like it better before that or do you not remember at all? (Hell, I probably can dig out a cam-bootleg of ATOC on a digital file somewhere to confirm how it ended). I think also on the "reel" release, Anakin's robot-arm didn't grab Padme's hand at the end at the wedding, it just kinda hung there.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Nov 21, 2012
  2. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I don't really remember...but yeah, Padme's forgiveness is needed. He's not ready to be Darth Vader yet-yes, what he did was awful, but as all of these threads about this topic wind up showing, there's mitigation going on. Anakin isn't quite at the point of no return just yet, and its important to show that to his story, unless you're down with Luke looking exceedingly foolish in ROTJ, and Vader's turn back looking goofy as hell.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  3. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I get why it's needed from a character perspective for sure but I think as a movie / better place to end the scene it ended just on "I hate them", Darth Vader music up with somewhat tragic undertones to it. Of course, you need the forgiveness for a reason that Padme still sticks with him but, golly, it did originally end without that bit so Lucas agreed with that from a certain point of view.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Nov 21, 2012
  4. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    What tragic overtones? The threatrical version pretty well leads directly into Anakin murdering Dooku a movie later, and he's not there yet. And George obviously, and rightly, changed his mind.
  5. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Nah, I mean the actual Darth Vader musical theme used at the end of the confession scene has a tragic undertone to it as opposed to the full-on bombastic Imperial march ESB style version. Which the audio in ATOC fits where Anakin's character is at in that particular scene and ends on a downer.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Nov 21, 2012
  6. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, but it also ends with zero character development for Anakin for the rest of the movie; I mean, seriously, not having him show remorse and Padme show forgiveness pretty much ends his character arc halfway through the second movie. :p
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  7. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Now that you say it I think I vaguely remember the scene ending in "I hate you"... I think the IMAX version didn't have the final lines either (the cut was shorter anyway). But it could be my memory playing tricks on me.
  8. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    The IMAX version had all the connective tissue of that nature mainly removed to deal with the (then) 120-minute limitation IMAX had.
  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Well, that's not very romantic. :p

    He hates the Tuskens, not her.
  10. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    the theatrical cut didn't have the "to be angry is to be human" or whatever she said

    it was when i watched the DVD i thought, oh,well thats new

    (i saw AOTC a few times in the cinema)
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  11. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    LOL ;)

    I was just watching ROTS so I got that mixed up :)
  12. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I hate to admit it, but it actually flowed better. OTOH I'd love it if some deleted scenes (especially Padme's home) were added to Blu Ray.
  13. bibfortuitous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 3
    AOTC theatrical cut was a lot better than the cut released on DVD. And the less said about the changes GL made to the Blu-ray cut the better.
  14. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Eh, no it did not. Care to explain why Obi-Wan and Anakin just...show up after Padme's ship gets bombed? That's right. You can't. :p You can assume that they got assigned, but seeing that Palpatine is the one who basically makes the "FYI, I just trapped you all between Anakin Skywalker's sense of duty and his illicit love for a Senator" call shows just how completely outclassed the Jedi were right from the start.
  15. bibfortuitous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 3
  16. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    The only change I notice was Anakin's hearing his mom during his nightmare (for the better IMO). Was there anything else?
  17. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    There were slight changes in editing, to the scene where Anakin flies the speeder through the power couplings, and to the end of the Yoda-Dooku duel. I for one have mixed feelings about all three changes.
  18. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    I agree, the scenes at Padme's home should've stayed in.
  19. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Oh, I remember the first theatrical cut. I saw it eight times, so I ought to ;)
    I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, some fans obviously needed a bit of clarification (judging by all the discussions that went on here), but on the other, it feels cinematically better to end it with "I hate them", the IM and Padmé just comforting him. The pacing was just perfect.
    I personally never doubted that Padmé was forgiving of his deeds, since she did kneel down to comfort him. All the addition did was confirm my interpretation.

    I like the blu-ray changes, BTW - except for the altered editing of Dooku's escape. I don't quite understand why that was needed. I haven't noticed the change in the speeder chase, so it must be good!





    "I love you!"
    /LM
    Last edited by Lars_Muul, Nov 22, 2012
  20. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    The thing that I don't like about the altered version (digital release and DVD cut) is that the music is edited: instead of letting Vader's theme end naturaly, we go back to the Emperor's theme (for "to be angry is to be human") and shortly the music cuts back to the tail end of Vader's theme.
  21. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I remember the theatrical cut but I had read the script and the novel before the DVD came out so I wasn't surprised at the change. And yes, "to be angry is to be human" is sorely needed, as is "I'm a Jedi, I know I'm better than this."
  22. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    It confirms that he pulled back from the Dark Side this time around.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  23. Bobatron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Is there a reason the original poster typed ATOC several times instead of AOTC?
    Anyway, I preferred the dialogue in the theatrical version. (I never saw the digital print but remember reading there were a few details.) Anakin's afterthought of "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this" seemed to step back from what looked like a step toward the Dark Side. I guess the intention instead was just to show Anakin as one who would act impulsively then regret it. At the time I thought that Tusken slaughter would mark a tendency of Anakin eliminating those in his way or who wronged or failed him, ala the Imperial officers, and that he would be a bit darker, battle-hardened, and possibly more brutal (yet still a Jedi) at the start of EPISODE III.
    That whole garage scene felt awkward anyway. Only the nostalgia of seeing that location (especially in the Official Select picture released in 2000) was appealing; Padme's asking of "what's wrong?" after carrying his dead mother into the homestead hours sooner was so out of place.
    Last edited by Bobatron, Nov 22, 2012
  24. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Glad to see I'm not crazy and people noticed it also. I don't think you really need the redemption moment tag at the end there, nice character moment that it is that he shows regret, you get it visually with Anakin's reaction and Padme kneeling down. @Lars_Muul pretty much nailed it. I think it's just a stronger way to end the scene, not to say the moment afterwards is bad, it's just superfluous when the original out is so bang-on perfect.

    As for Anakin's arc in Ep. 2, it's not as if his Tusken slaughter is addressed in the movie proper after that scene, it's really laying down groundwork for Ep. 3. If anything his arc in the movie is more just about him and Padme. And certainly in Ep. 3 when he does bad stuff he shows regret about it.

    This is gonna drive me nuts, I know I'm gonna be OCD enough about it to double-check it on the weekend sometime, I could possibly dig out a copy of the theatrical cut and upload it but that would be using abilities some consider to be ... unnatural.

    So sorry, if you want me to go in and edit them, no problemo! Didn't know movie abbreviation typos constituted a thing.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Nov 22, 2012
  25. Bobatron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    It was a real question. Since it was like that three times, I wondered if it could be some kind of foreign translation.
    Similarly, perhaps, just about every time I've typed "Thanksgiving" I've accidentally typed the "s" before the "k".
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