Attack of the Clones is like a Star Wars inkblot test.

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by sdj, Jun 22, 2002.

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  1. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    I mean, if I like the new Star Wars films, do I necessarily have to present air tight logic in order to validate my opinion? Whatever happened to people liking something "just because"?

    Similarly, don't people who criticise have the same right? Or should they be deprived of it?

    I like AOTC, but I do feel people like endboss hsould have a right to speak in these forums too, provided he doesn't flame or anything. Sadly, it's the other way round. Ther guy is being flamed, but I bet the moment he responds to those flames it's he who gets banned, not those who instigated him. Sigh....
  2. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    I like to flame people. Of course, the way I flame people is setting them on fire. It's a nasty habit ;)










    ST
  3. Lagniappe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    star 4
    "So where some see a slow paced movie with a great fx and a crappy romance others see an action packed adventure with great fx and a well portrayed young Anakin Skywalker. "

    And what if you saw, "an action packed adventure with occasional slow pacing, great fx, a crappy romance and a well portrayed young Anakin Skywalker? Where do you fit then? I saw a lot of good things about AOTC. I enjoyed it a lot. But I also saw flaws which I feel weakened the film - and were not that difficult to address... so maybe I see different things in my inkblot depending upon upon my focus. I am not willing to dismiss the good, but nor will I ignore the bad.
  4. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
  5. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    And what if you saw, "an action packed adventure with occasional slow pacing, great fx, a crappy romance and a well portrayed young Anakin Skywalker? Where do you fit then? I saw a lot of good things about AOTC. I enjoyed it a lot. But I also saw flaws which I feel weakened the film - and were not that difficult to address... so maybe I see different things in my inkblot depending upon upon my focus. I am not willing to dismiss the good, but nor will I ignore the bad.

    You're in the same situation as me, Lagniappe. They really need labels for people like us

    :p
  6. EnforcerSG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    I saw a good star wars film, and a decent movie better than most of the &%$* out there. It was somewhat simple, but not dummied down on the whole. Good action and SFX in a decent ballance. Not much distracting from the story. There was a good story to tell that was overall well told. Not perfect, but good.
  7. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Lurking Around - don't worry, you are one of the good ones. But certain people in this forum have no interest in debate, they just want to get people riled up. I have to be honest and say it's mainly a small group of bashers who do that, unfortunately.

    "Someday I will be the most powerful moderator ever. I'll even learn to stop topics from dying. Trolls are like animals, and I'll ban them like animals" :)
  8. endboss Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 1998
    star 3
    <<<The first post presents a reasonable criticism which can then lead to further debate. The second does not. Please tell me you can see the difference>>>

    Darth Homer, you seem to be suggesting that I'm the type who simply offers "AOTC sucks" and nothing more. You haven't been paying attention if that's what you see. In this thread, I referred to the film's romance, dialogue and acting as being awkward, without explaining in detail what I meant. This is because I'm assuming you're not so out-of-the-loop here that those complaints puzzle you.

    Surely, by now, you've heard dozens of detailed explanations in this forum for why some of us interpret AOTC's acting, dialogue and romance as awkward. Do you need things explained for you in detail each time those elements of the film are referred to as awkward, or are you reasonable enough to say "I don't agree, but I've heard detailed arguments in support of that view many times before and so I'm aware of what he means"? You should be aware of the arguments supporting the basic complaints against AOTC by now. To put it another way, I shouldn't have to devote a paragraph explaining why I feel Jar Jar was annoying in TPM each time I refer to him as annoying. You should be aware of the reasons for that opinion by now.

    If you're interested in tackling meaty, detailed complaints about Clones, follow the link Abmmcray provided in this thread earlier. Or if you want to just deal with a couple complaints at a time, go here to a post I put up a few days ago, attacking just a few of the things that bugged me about AOTC's sloppy story.
  9. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Similarly, don't people who criticise have the same right? Or should they be deprived of it?

    I have no interest in depriving anybody of the right to express their opinion. However, it seems that there are those who have a great deal of difficulty seperating fact from opinion and who delight in tossing out little ad hominem attacks to spice up their already inflammatory postings.

    As was pointed out earlier by another poster, I have no problem with someone who presents a valid criticism and then backs up their argument with reasonable and logical support while calmly and rationally steering clear of any potentially inflammatory comments. What I don't like and have no respect for are people who say, in effect, "Star Wars sucks, and only an idiot would disagree!"
  10. Darth-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 1
    I agree. You can tell who the negative people are by the way the present themselves.(not naming names) I have seen many posts,including in this thread,from people who lash out in anger,or at least it comes off that way. Sometimes it's not what you say,but how you say it. If I read a post from someone that talks disrespectful to others in it,I don't care what his point his.How he went about making his point is what stays with me,and if he came across negative or lacking any respect,that's how I see them,and with good reason.
  11. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Endboss, if you'll permit to quote you:

    "I really wish I could tune-up or replace your radar for lousy dialogue, delivery and acting. Maybe then you'd spot the lack of quality in the PT, when compared to the OT."

    See, this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Why do you want to fix someone who enjoys a film you don't? Why do you even care what other people think?
    Personally, I feel AOTC is better than ROTJ and almost the equal of ANH and ESB. If someone disagrees with me, fine. Part of the fun of posting here is arguing different viewpoints in an intelligent manner. But you're not contributing anything to the debate by implying that people who love the prequels are mentally feeble, or whatever it is you're trying to suggest.
    For example, I don't rate Citizen Kane as a film. It just does nothing for me. But I would never accuse the many critics who adore the film of needing a tune-up of their critical faculties. Obviously the film speaks to them in a way it doesn't for me.
    Now, before you say "Comparing AOTC to Citizen Kane is an insult" let me point out that when it comes to an art form like film, EVERY opinion is entirely subjective. I don't care whether you're talking about Citizen Kane or Plan Nine From Outer Space. One person's opinion is just as valid as anothers. Maybe if you understood that you wouldn't get such a negative reaction to your posts.

    MTFBWY :)
  12. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Excuse me but I just have to address one of the most ignorant, stupidest posts ever written from the first page of this thread:

    endboss said,

    I think there are 3 main AOTC camps. There are those who love the film because they're forgiving enough to look past and make excuses for its bad acting, awkward dialogue, the holes in the story, the cheap use of the TPM soundtrack in certain places and the fact that it's swimming in CG. And then there are those who hate AOTC because they aren't especially forgiving, like me. We aren't willing to ignore the flaws out of a desire to fall in love with it. Our attitude is "Win me over or not. Entertain me or not. Don't screw up." Finally, there are those who love the film only because they have a poor eye for quality, and see only another entry in the series they love, and are happy with that. These are the fans who'd embrace 2 hours worth of Lucas on the crapper, with a new John Williams score blaring. Maybe that's a little extreme, but not too far off.

    How about I come up with my own categories? You either liked this movie because it's a great movie and an awesome addition to the SW saga or you're too f****** stupid to enjoy it. Now which category do you want to be lumped into, endboss?

    Edit: You know what, most of us who liked the film are not apologists. We honestly enjoyed the dialogue, enjoyed the music, the story, the acting, and the SFX. Quit stating your opinion "bad acting, awkward dialogue, the holes in the story, the cheap use of the TPM soundtrack in certain places and the fact that it's swimming in CG" as fact. It is possible for people to NOT think the same way you do.
  13. endboss Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 1998
    star 3
    That's all well and good, Homer. You have your style when getting things across, I have mine.

    Hey, I noticed you didn't actually respond to the content of my last post or the content in the link I provided. That's a good example of why I believe the things I do about many of this film's fans.
  14. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6
    I think this thread has outlived its usefullness.

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