Attack of the Clones: the film that TPM should have been

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by TrueJedi, Aug 6, 2001.

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  1. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Thanks for the link T_J. That video is freakin hilarious! I love when Ewan asks (sarcastically, Gomer) if the title is better than the Phantom Menace. I wonder what it feels like to put a lot of work into a project and then have the name come out and think it's a joke! That's got to be frustrating.

    I'm not too high on the title. There could have been worse, but there could have been better.

    And TPM23, NO MORE REFERENCES TO WHAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE IN EP2!!!!!! I DON'T CARE IF YOU GUARANTEE I'LL LIKE SOME ASPECT OF ONE OF THE CHARACTERS. YOU'RE ALREADY RUINING THE MOVIE!!!!!!


  2. TPMrules23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2000
    star 5
    Frescoe,
    "Naboo concentration camps: offscreen.
    Yoda teaching Ben: offscreen.
    Ben teaching Anakin (the first ten years): offscreen.
    The Clone Wars: offscreen.
    The Jedi Purge: offscreen.

    Stick a fork in the saga. "
    Bothan spies dying to bring vital info: offscreen
    Han getting attacked by bounty hunters on Ord Mantell: offscreen
    Han and Leia's relationship growing a ton during a 3 year period: offscreen
    Luke going from a farmboy who blew up a Death Star to a Padawan who needs just a few months more of training to become a Knight: offscreen

    The Clone Wars will not be off screen. Ben teaching Anakin the first ten years will be offscreen just as Han and Leia grew btwn ANH and ESB, Luke all of a sudden had Force Powers, etc. Who wants to see 10,000 Jedi Knight killed off one by one by one....boring. Does anyone honestly want to see the Purge? This is the story of Anakin Skywalker, not the painfully slow, boring, repetitive process in which the Jedi were exterminated. You are searching for stuff to complain about.

    Stone_Jedi,
    What have I revealed about EII? I am being as spoiler sensitive as I can? Spoiler free people are the ones most likely to be dissapointed in AOTC, so I think if you don't want the film ruined for you, you should read some spoilers. That was my view for TPM, and will be for AOTC and EIII. Again, I apologize for my overenthusiasm in EII if I have spoiled anything for you.
  3. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    How can you think spoiler free people will not like EP2? I guess that leaves just a small portion of society, only everyone who doesn't visit TFN, then everyone who does and doesn't read the spoilers. According to you, there is a small segment of the population who really will enjoy EP2.

    I want to remain spoiler free because I want everything to be a surprise to me. If there are any revelations, a la Vader being Luke's father, I don't want any hints until I see the movie. I want the movie to be the first time I say "Wow, that's cool. What a great part!" or "Damn, this sucks just like TPM." I wish to reserve judgement until next May, when I actually get to see the movie.


    Sorry if I seem a little upset, but I'm tired of people saying "Wait til you see what happens with " fill in the blank "in EP2. Then you'll realize why TPM was made how it was made." Well, let me find out, just like everyone else in the world, next May.

    I don't visit the spoiler section on this forum, because I figure that if I have something to say about the movie, I'd better wait until the movie comes out first and I have actually seen it.

    :)

  4. C-3P0 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 4
    xuxuspetals,

    It's not revisionist history in my neck of the woods. Many of my friends were greatly upset by the title, and I recall quite a few debates about it.

    With the advent of sites like this (and the internet in general), you can instantly get into debates about anything with people who are just as interested in a topic as you are. That's the only differance I see.

    I will grant you that I don't recall wide spread news coverage on the title, just Johnny Carson's monologues making a lot of jokes.
  5. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    Maybe I'm just being a crabby fart, but the humorous notion of substituting the word 'clone' into a old 50's horror/sci fi notion and calling it Ep II or Episode III really lost it's flavor after ohhh say. . . ten minutes. Make fun of the title all you want but geez! At least be creative! Am I the only person on this planet who didn't think of old sci-fi horror films when I read the title? 'It sounds like attack of the killer tomatoes hyuck hyuck!' Why? Because it starts out with 'attack'? Because I don't see killer clones or cloned tomatoes in there anywhere. Not Lucas' fault Attack of the Killer Tomatoes has engraved itself into our society more than anybody thought.
    I thought it was a cheezy title because it sounds like something Ric Oli came up with but I won't go into anymore detail.

    Attack of the Killer Cloned Tomatoes!
    LOL LOL!!!
    Am I funny yet? Huh huh? Am I am I? Huh? What? Where are you dragging me-!?


    *bang*
  6. Quaff-Down Gin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 1999
    star 4
    Sorry to bum you all out, but The Clone Wars take place in a bunch of petri dishes.

    Ooops... is that considered a spoiler?
  7. Rabid_Balding_Ewok Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2000
    star 4
    >>>Star Wars: The Phantom Swamp Monster
    Star Wars: Attack of the Swamp Monster
    Star Wars: Revenge of the Swamp Monster (Yes, I realize there is no title for Episode 3 yet, but I like Revenge of the Sith personally.)
    Star Wars: A new Swamp Monster
    Star wars: The Swamp Monster Strikes Back
    Star Wars: Return of theSwamp Monster<<<

    By all thats holy that Swamp Monster needs to be stoped!!!
  8. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    "Does anyone honestly want to see the Purge?"

    Yes very much. I have wanted to see it every time I hear Obi-Wan talk about how Vader helped the Empire wipe out the Jedi. To me, this is very important...to find out what happened to the Jedi.
  9. baggles Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 1999
    star 4
    And you will get your wish, starting in Ep 2.
  10. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Bud Frescoe wrote:
    "Naboo concentration camps: offscreen.
    Yoda teaching Ben: offscreen.
    Ben teaching Anakin (the first ten years): offscreen.
    The Clone Wars: offscreen.
    The Jedi Purge: offscreen.

    Stick a fork in the saga."

    Exactly. In fact, I can almost guarantee that the Jedi purge will happen after Ep III is all over. Here's why:

    Attack of the Clones [face_laugh] will be a love story between Hayden and Natalie. Check out these quotes from George Lucas:

    "The next one is the romantic one, which is probably a rather dramatic departure--which some people may not like. There will be some action in it, but it's basically more romantic." (from Premiere Magazine Online 05/99)

    "The next film is a love story and I don't know how that is going to be taken by the fans." (from Empire Magazine 07/99)

    "Episode 2 is basically a love story set when Anakin is 20 and Amidala is 24." (from CUT interview 09/07/99?)

    As can clearly be seen from these quotes, Ep II will not be a dark or an action-packed movie. It will probably mostly be about Hayden and Natalie overcoming obstacles in the way of their getting married. The movie will end with a big glittery wedding (GL seems to love parties at the ends of his movies), and Jar Jar will fall in the cake.

    So, no Jedi purge in Attack of the Clones [face_laugh]. What about Ep III? No way. Here's why:

    Every single SW movie so far has a lightsabre battle at the end of it. The lightsabre battle in Attack of the Clones [face_laugh] will probably be between Anakin and the new Sith apprentice, with Anakin killing the apprentice. Ep III's will probably be between Anakin and Obi-Wan, with Obi-Wan winning. Check out this quote from p. 80 of the novelization of ROTJ:

    "When I [Obi-Wan] saw what had become of him [Anakin], I tried to dissuade him, to draw him back from the dark side. We fought...your father fell into a molten pit. When your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him forever--he was Darth Vader, without a trace of Anakin Skywalker."

    I know GL won't hesitate to override the info in the novelizations, but it is doubtful that he will change this part very much.

    So, Anakin doesn't become Darth Vader until after Ep III's sabre duel, which are always near the end of each episode. There simply won't be time for a Jedi purge after the sabre duel. Anakin/Vader will require some time to recuperate from his near-death. I bet he won't become Vader until the last 15 minutes of the film.

    One other point to consider: GL's latest contributions to the saga (ROTJ, the SE's, and TPM) have grown increasingly light-hearted. There is no way GL would actually show a Jedi purge if there were any way around it. A Jedi purge would simply be too dark. There will never be another ESB. It will remain unique.

    To conclude, if a person who knew nothing about the saga were to watch the six films in order he would not know anything about a Jedi purge until old Ben tells Luke about it in Episode IV.
  11. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    Ok, now you make me feel like I want to kill myself.

    You may very well be right about Ep. II but you're really reaching on Ep. III. We MUST see the purge. It's the only way we can really relate to what happens in the OT.

    I'm guessing that Ep. III is going to be nothing but extreme conflict and destruction. At least, that's what I think will happen.

    And GL would be right, if he tried to make, "Titanic in space" the fans would throw tomatoes at the screen. :p
  12. baggles Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 1999
    star 4
    Binary :

    Your timeline is off.
    You will see the beginning of the Jedi Purge in Ep2. I never said anything about Vader's inclusion in the purge.

    BTW...Jar Jar is not at the wedding...
  13. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Baggles, read my posts asking TPM23 to stop spoiling us. I don't care how minor you think it is, but PLEASE, NO INFO ON EP2!!!!

    It's nice that you read the spoilers, but don't ruin it for the rest of us.
  14. baggles Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 1999
    star 4
    Stone:

    I was responding to Binary's spoliers (Which are greatly mistaken.)

    WHy only pick on me ?? :)
  15. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    "Does anyone honestly want to see the Purge? ......You are searching for stuff to complain about."

    Why you (blank) (blank) (blank), don't presume to tell me what I do and do not want to see and then tell ME, ME, Darth Stryphe of all people, that I'm just looking for complaints!! I've been waiting 18 years to see the Jedi get wipped out. If I get realiable spoiler information that there is no Jedi purge in EIII (at least a well started purge), GL does not get my money for EIII, it's that simple.

    (EDIT)(EDIT)(EDIT)!!!!!!

    --huff -- huff -- huff --

    OK, I'm calmed down now -- no, really, I am.
  16. TPMrules23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2000
    star 5
    Stone_Jedi,
    "Wait til you see what happens with " fill in the blank "in EP2. Then you'll realize why TPM was made how it was made." Well, let me find out, just like everyone else in the world, next May."
    The problem is, the rest of the world doesn't care enough to get preconceptions.

    If you are going to think about the content of EII AT ALL, and preconceive, and create in your mind, YOU MUST have basic knowledge of what will actually be on screen, otherwise it will be TPM all over again.

    But, TF.N's spoilers are overboard. I suggest simply reading Insider articles, since you seem very anti-spoiler, you'd probably be against Selects and the Docs, but I highly suggest those.


    Hawk,
    "To me, this is very important...to find out what happened to the Jedi."
    Do you want to see every Jedi killed? I don't know how Lucas could do it, and I don't think he's going to show it. He's going to focus on Anakin's downfall, that is the TRUE story, the rest is implied. We know he's going to go from planet to planet, painfully, slowly, whiping out Jedi after Jedi. The real story is what happens btwn Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace, Palpy, and others. If you really want to see random no-name Jedi get taken down in rehash fight scenes, then you're probably going to have to wait for EU.

    Binary,
    "As can clearly be seen from these quotes, Ep II will not be a dark or an action-packed movie."
    Not true at all. There is way more action in AOTC than TPM, and you know that cause you follow spoilers. At least the action is bolder, we know that much. Way more bold than anything to come before, downright nuts in some places probably. Why don't you dig that? Besides, admit looking forward to the romance a LITTLE, I know you got to like Natalie in certain hotter-than-hell costumes in EII, cause you said it before.

    Don't make assumptions about saber battles in EII, Binary, I think GL's got a few more tricks up his sleeve than diehards think he does.

    "We MUST see the purge. It's the only way we can really relate to what happens in the OT."
    WHY?!!? Someone explain its purpose in plot, theme, message...it has NONE. It's just a fanboy wetdream, like seeing Mandalorians serve the Emperor. The real SW is about humans. SW and most myths, in the end is about good and evil within us. I don't want some lame, thin, action shoot em up film. I could watch Matrix for that. How often do you picture yourself watching the Jedi Purge? How often to you picture yourself contemplating connections btwn the Purge and other literature, its meaning in the saga? And HOW do you show 10,000 people being killed? There WILL be Jedi being killed in the next few movies, the Purge WILL start.

    I change my mind, nobody is willing to like the PT anymore. It's nuts, you will not accept ANYTHING! You purposely ask for impossible things on screen just to bash it...it drives me crazy.
    [screams violently]AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/end scream] Sorry :)
  17. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Sorry baggles. I had read the interviews that Binary put up, so I didn't really take them into account.

    So now I will clarify what I mean when I complain about spoilers.

    1. Anything having to do with character development.
    2. Anything having to do with what happens to the character, ie lightsaber battles, space wars. I don't believe that romance of Anakin and Padme counts, since it's pretty much known to happen (Luke and Leia need parents).
    3. Any pictures (already ruined) of characters, ships, droids, locations and the like. Part of the appeal of SW is the wonderful job the art department does on the films. I want to be blown away when I see it in the theaters.
    4. Any plot points. This does not include Anakin and Obi Wan fighting, as that's been discussed by GL in interviews as far back as 16 years ago.

    Sorry if I was vague before. I'll try to cool it a little. :D

  18. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    "WHY?!!? Someone explain its purpose in plot, theme, message...it has NONE."

    *bzzzz* Oh, I'm sorry TPMRules23, that was the wrong answer. EI establishes that (a) Jedi rock and are to be feared, and (b) there is and can only be two sith. So if EIII ends with a whole lot of Jedi still around (a majority of them), then EIV picks up with them all dead, it's like you missed a whole move. What on earth did the Sith do that could wipe out thousands and thousands of Jedi? No, really, what? That's how it's relevant to the plot. Jedi represent hope for the galaxy (thus 'a new hope' and ending on the note of 'return of the jedi'). If a bunch of Jedi are still alive, hope is still alive, and if hope is still alive then why do we need a new hope? Get it? Purger VERY relevant to SW theme.
  19. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    To make sure that there is no ambiguity as to what is and what is not a spoiler, I have copy and pasted these official rules (courtesy of Mr. P) from the AOTC Non-Spoiler forum:

    The following is our most current set of rules for what is and is not considered spoiler material:

    ***

    1) Anything dated prior to May 19, 1999 from any official or unofficial source is not a spoiler.

    2) Anything said by Lucas, McCallum, or any other individual ranking high in the Lucasfilm hierarchy is not a spoiler. Anything said by a mid- to lower- level employee, like the ones who leak info to TF.N, is a spoiler.

    3) Quotes from actors, stunt doubles, etc., who were on the set of Episode 2 are not considered spoilers.

    4) Any information from any issue of Star Wars Insider is not a spoiler. Information from any tabloid or other publication dated after 5/19/99 is.

    5) Any information taken from the official site, including the Select pics, is not a spoiler.

    6) When the time comes, the posters and trailers will not be considered spoilers.

    7) Of course, all sorts of speculation based on information obtained from the non-spoiler sources above is acceptable and welcome.

    ***

    The following are certain actions that are not allowed in the Non-Spoiler Forum to keep it devoid of spoilers:

    ***

    1) Posting highlightable text (ex: highlightable). This makes it very easy for a troll to hide spoilers, and makes it harder to administrate in general. They also will be seen when the colors of the board change.

    2) Linking to the Episode II + III (Spoilers Allowed) forum. Linking to a thread in the SA forum is not allowed because then people would have to venture into SA to get someone's point, and they could be easily spoiled. It presents a temptation to non-spoiler members, and if one needs to refer to a SA thread, they can easily simply quote the parts of the thread that they refer to, editing out the spoiler parts since they would not contribute to the discussion, and obviously because they are spoilers.

    3) Discussing opinions of Episode II or III based on spoilers. Threads such as "Don't get too hyped up about episode II" are not allowed since they are informing and discussing spoilers. Opinions of Episode II based on speculation are allowed, but not based on spoilers. Based on spoilers means that they aer discussing spoilers, and taht is not allowed in the NS forum.
  20. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Binary-

    The SE's and most of ROTJ and TPM are not lighthearted so what makes you think that they are?
  21. darthsidious32 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 4
    I just wanted to present a little scenario...

    Ok, let's say that you did not have any knowledge of anything Star Wars. Say that Episode
    V was called "Attack of the Empire" instead of "The Empire Strikes Back." Would you think
    this would be a cheesy movie to go see because of the title? Now given that this title is
    attached the same Episode V that we've all come to know and love, would that make the
    title seem less cheesy, and change the way we often look at titles with "Attack of the" in
    them, since Episode V is really good?

    My point is that if the title is given time, and if the movie is decent, the supposed
    "cheesiness" of the title will fade away for most people. They'll come out of the theater
    saying, "Attack of the Clones rocked," not caring if they thought the title was cheesy or
    not.

    For cryin' out loud, does the title really seem all that bad, especially when introduced in the
    Star Wars fonts? Imagine it in the opening crawl of Episode II. Just picture this for a
    second. I think it would look great.
  22. Quaff-Down Gin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 1999
    star 4
    GL:

    "This episode is really a love story so I'm sure that the audience won't like it."

    "Episode II is really dark so don't expect it to be enjoyable."

    "The next film is going to be very violent so I don't recommend seeing it."

    etc., etc....

    How exactly are we supposed to take this?

    He's either considering us fools or he's making a baaaaad movie.
  23. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    TPMrules23:

    So what kind of film are you hoping to see? One where Hayden is shoving his tongue down Portman's throat for 2 hours? Hello? How about some action beyond "Titanic in space"?

    I make it a rule not to go into a SW film with expectations beyond having a good time, but in the case of Ep. III, I expect to see at least some Jedi get killed in a purge. I know you're young so you really can't appreciate this but alot of us have been waiting since 1977 to see this and my hope is that GL won't disappoint us.
  24. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    A Star Wars love story would be ok. But with Lucas writing and directing it, I am scared. So far all the romance in the films were directed by other directors. Does Lucas have it in him?
  25. TPMrules23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2000
    star 5
    TrueJedi,
    "One where Hayden is shoving his tongue down Portman's throat for 2 hours?"
    STUPID HAYDEN. Yeah, something like that, as long as (STUPID) Hayden's never on camera :) Don't worry if I have a little unresolved anger towards (STUPID) Hayden....

    "How about some action beyond "Titanic in space"? "
    There is tons of action in EII. And the romance in EII isn't like Titanic, like I said before, it has Natalie. And its a real relationship, not some cheesy crap.

    I agree with Binary's rules regarding spoilers. Anything off the official site is fair game.

    "So if EIII ends with a whole lot of Jedi still around (a majority of them), then EIV picks up with them all dead, it's like you missed a whole move."
    Stryphe, but if EIII ends with all the big Jedi dead, ie Council members, anyone we've seen in the first 2 movies, etc., it could easily be made clear that the Purge will be successful.
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