JCC [Australian politics] And here we go again...

Discussion in 'Community' started by Katana_Geldar, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Wocky, Gillard's support of Obama would disappear overnight if she thought there was political capital in being an Obama basher. She is the most unprincipled, disloyal and untrustworthy political animal to ever walk the corridors of power in this country, and that's saying something. It's just sad that Australia's first female PM is such a vile person and incompetent leader.
  2. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Yeah to be honest, if we became a Republic, I'd move to the UK. It's made the US insufferable in its rhetoric and when they broke ties with England they lost all suavity and panache. No thank you, sir. I do not care for NASCAR, Ol' Glory, or being thankful I can eat an overstuffed bird.

    Plus, Rule Britannia is more stirring than any song you have.
    Darth_Kiryan likes this.
  3. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    nobody can be worse than Tony Abbott.
  4. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    Is one worse than the other? Yeah, but it's a case of relativity. Kind of like being asked to say whether being flayed alive or starved is worse.

    To Wocky, Julia Gillard is an obviously smart woman whose public speaking voice is an affectation made to make her seem more "like the common person" as her advisors have obviously told her that the public won't connect with her otherwise. To many of us, it is absolutely grating. She also embodies the worst things in politics as she panders to the various groups and powerbrokers that got her into the position she has and will compromise on everything (yes, compromise is a part of politics, but compromising on a party policy to gain a vote to create a minority government and then reneging on the promise when the vote was no longer needed?) unless of course it is a staunch policy of the factions that keep her in power and then won't compromise even in the face of overwhelming pressure. She's also been taking shots at the current 'state' of political discourse over here, despite being one of the architects of it (she was Labor and Rudd's hatchet person slinging the shots when she wasn't the PM), and the speech that is being lauded around the world about misogyny, it was in defence of someone that had committed more heinously misogynistic acts than that she accuses the Opposition Leader of.

    Not that Abbott is any better. Revelling in gutter-trash politics, opposing things purely to oppose rather than for specific policy or philosophical differences. He is regressive in his doctrine and would be just as dangerous for Australia as Gillard is currently. I really have no enthusiasm to vote for either major party currently. We are being asked to vote for one of two politicians who place politics above prinicple and the common good for the country.
  5. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    On a more serious matter

    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  6. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    How bad can the Thunder from downunder be?

    I Heard Australian politics were passionate but still poilte. or was that new Zealand?
  7. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    not funny
  8. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    No, it's like a pack of sugar-high pre schoolers in Parliament here.
    Jedi knight Pozzi likes this.
  9. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I hate you Kevin Rudd.
  10. Champion of the Force Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    I was debating whether to put up a new thread, but it seems Wocky has kindly just bumped up the old one :p

    [IMG]

    So now we have a new Labor Leader (not Prime Minister yet - that'll be tomorrow if Rudd can get the support of the Independents when he goes and visits the Governor-General). It's going to be an interesting couple of days as the system digests the latest leadership tangle.

    I have to confess I'm still amazed at those caucus results though: 57-45 in favour of Rudd. Nice win, but still ...that's 45% of the caucus still in favour of Gillard despite the polls being absolutely dire and the party facing it worst rout since the Scullin government of the 1930s. [face_hypnotized]

    Some quick thoughts of my own:
    1. I think Rudd will get the PM-ship tomorrow fine - it seems he has enough independent support for confidence in the House of Reps.
    2. No idea on the election date - many commentators are strongly suggesting Rudd should make a dash for the polls (the earliest date for a House of Reps/half Senate election is August 3). Then again, they advised the same to Gillard back in 2010 and we all saw how that went (converting a 55-45 two-party preferred poll lead into a minority government by the skin of it's teeth).
    3. Gillard will resign parliament at the next election, as will Garrett and Emerson - 3 more seats Labor will need to hang onto.
    4. In addition, Oakeshott and Windsor are also retiring - their electorates lean conservative and are almost certain to be won by the Nationals this coming election.

    I'll expect there'll be a honeymoon bounce for Rudd, but whether he can salvage Labor from it's current predicament and actually win the damn thing is an extremely tall order.
    Last edited by Champion of the Force, Jun 26, 2013
  11. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    To proceed to the more important point of analysis, do we have any evidence of Kevin Rudd's loyalty to Barack Obama?
  12. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    1. Oakeshott and Windsor are too gutless to spill Parliament right at this moment and force an immediate election. Even if they're both jumping before being pushed retiring, to call an election early would cost $150 million needlessly because we've got a half Senate election coming up soon and this is not a double dissolution; thus we'd have two Federal elections in effect. Windsor will probably hold his line since he's given his word, but Oakeshott won't, and you never know, nutty Katter might actually hold to his word and get Rudd across the line. Rudd will be PM, if only for a few months.
    2. Remember Gillard's pledge to hold an election in September is a pledge only. No writs issue before about 3 months out, and Rudd didn't make that promise. There's as much good reason for him to hang on a few more months to try and project himself as different to Gillard.
    3. Gillard, Garrett, Emerson, and I seem to remember there's at least a couple of others. Combine that with the fact Labor has to also win Oakeshott and Windsor's seats -- both will likely swing very heavily towards the Nationals -- and it's 5+ seats they have to win and hold onto the crumbling base they already have. I don't think they'll do that even if they resort to using up the last coffers of Thompson's hooker fund.
    4. See 3 above.

    Never say never, especially now, but it would be an unbelievable comeback for Labor to win a Federal election at this point. Hawke obviously did with only a month or so's notice, but Kevin Rudd is not Bob Hawke and Fraser's government was already on the nose. On the other hand, there'll probably be a much higher independent and minor (excluding the Greens) party vote because people are sick of both the majors, especially with Crazy Clive Palmer having dug up the United Australia Party's corpse. :D

    EDIT: Ender, where are you, dude? Only one more Parliamentary party leader to turf now and the rightful PM of Australia will be in place! :D :D

    EDIT THE SECOND: News Limited gets the cookie for the best headline: "KEVIN 57 ... Julia 45."

    EDIT THE THIRD: And the main reason he won is: Bill Shorten lost his nerve. No other reason, I think it'll pan out.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jun 26, 2013
  13. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    So the party dumps its leader and replaces her, with the guy they dumped in the first place o_O
    That doesn't fill you with confidence the party knows what it's doing.



    What are the odds on Rudd getting ousted by someone else should he lose the election? :p
  14. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Yeah, that'll probably be Bill Shorten.
  15. Champion of the Force Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    It'll depend on the final results, but if it's a good victory for the Coalition I daresay Rudd will almost certainly resign the leadership on his own accord and let someone (most likely Shorten; Combet is another alternative) take on the leadership anew.
    Last edited by Champion of the Force, Jun 26, 2013
  16. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    My favorite thing about all the Gillard hate was the use of gendered slurs and imagery. Stay classy Australia.
  17. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    I suspect we will see an early August election. If Rudd can't convince people by then, he isn't going to convince them by November 30. Remember, his numbers were tanking when he was turfed in 2010, so his honeymoon period will only hold out for a short time. They already needed to make up 5 seats, and have another 3 formerly 'safer' seats up for grabs also since there is the possibility of backlash against Labor in those seats after tonight.

    As to leadership after the election, there have been predictions that Labor was only going to retain as little as 27 seats in the Lower House, with Qld reduced to 1 seat. I think if they increase that to a retention of at least 40-50 then Rudd will be able to make some sort of claim as to a victory, and stay on. Whether he will or not is an interesting question. Shorten is the likely candidate to be seen as leader if Rudd steps down/is pushed again, but after tonight his public image is going to take a bit of a beating given the role he has played in both leadership spills (et tu Brutus?). No to mention, we have yet to see someone take reigns of the Opposition post-election and lead them to a victory since Whitlam. And even then he lost another election before winning in 1972. Someone else will likely have to become the post-election punching bag for a time before the shine of the new Government wears off and someone like Shorten takes the leadership.
    Champion of the Force likes this.
  18. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    Yes, because accusations of not being a citizen, forging of Federal documents, questioning of religious identity, etc allow anyone in the US to take the higher ground.
    Katana_Geldar and Point Given like this.
  19. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    I don't recall saying we in the US were much better (why would I? it would only give ES another chance to rant about how America sucks).
  20. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Eh. It's a pity that people had to resort to sexism to impugn inarguably the worst leader we've ever had. Still, I'm loving watching Labor implode. The party has no business existing with it's 1890s trade unionism.

    lol @ Labor.
  21. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    I honestly didn't expect that he'd win. Right up until I heard the results, really. I had the idea he was destabilising so he could come in as opposition leader once Labor lost the election.

    Oh well. I thought Gillards speech was great, didn't stay up to see Rudd grinning like a Cheshire Cat.
  22. Champion of the Force Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    Myself and my mates watched Origin instead - got sick of watching live footage of security guards and journalists standing around doing nothing for 20 mins. Do't think we missed much.
  23. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Origin was as horrible to watch as the latest Labor farce. Why is it that many hopeless political leaders like Gillard and Beazley seem to have their shining moments only when they are outed and delivering their farewell speeches?

    Wocky, never you mind about Rudd's loyalty to Obama, he will be the PM until September if not earlier. I'm PM Abbott (who I despise) will be a leg humping Obama supporter though.
    Last edited by LostOnHoth, Jun 26, 2013
  24. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Because they have nothing to lose then?

    And Abbotts Catholic, that might affect things.
    Last edited by Katana_Geldar, Jun 26, 2013
  25. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Would love it if Ruddy can't make up the numbers to form a government.

    Clowns.