Authority & the EU - A thorny issue?

Hit upon this a short while ago, does SW, and by extension, the EU, have a problem with depicting authority positively?

The PT has the collapse of both the Jedi and the Republic, the one being destroyed and the other becoming the Empire. The OT then has a rebellion against the Empire, so against the authorities because they're corrupt to the core and have blown up planets. (They're the Hitchiker's Guide Cops? Errr...could be)

Cut to the EU and the great majority of it seems to be uneasy with the inevitability that to defeat the Empire and accomplish their goals Luke and the Rebellion has to become the authorities:

DE: Reverts to the Rebellion in the face of a new Imperial Onslaught.

NJO: The NR fails and becomes the GA in the face of the Vong invasion, once again the Rebels are set against an evil adversary.

DN / LOTF: The slow fall of a Jedi that culminates in the corruption of the GA, so leading to a new rebellion.

Legacy: The Sith-Imperial alliance defeat the Jedi-GA and take over, so returning to the Rebel plot again.

There are quite a few Bantam stories where this doesn't happen, where the theme of power and how to handle is explored differently:

TAB, XW, TTT: By the time of TTT the Rebels have become the New Republic and are having problems, which Thrawn, like Zsinj & Isard before him takes full advantage of, though the Republic survives.

JAT / IJ / D / POT: NR is justifiably ambivalent over how to deal with the Empire, Kyp's use of the Suncrusher doesn't help and the Imperials are waging a civil war that's ended by a gassing, cue an offensive that fails but does blow up a lot of stuff.

BFC - NR - CT - HoT: The NR has to deal with the problems of taking over from the Empire with all manner of poisonous legacies resurfacing.

Yet, it seems the big, high-profile, controversial stories require that there be rebels in some shape or form, even though this means that the goals of those rebels, to some degree, has to be shredded to pieces.

 

That's the trap of having 'wars' in the title.

 

To some extent I think this is might not be a result of a problem of not being able to portray government positively, which would demand the regression to rebellion, but just a case of the authors and editors wanting to tell the same story again and again. They want to tell OT once more, not develop the EU.

But after PT came out the people who plan and write these things have also got an urge to re-tell the PT. The fall of the Republic and the fall of the Jedi. So the newer products in EU combine these things: The basic urge to return to the "womb" of the EU, the OT, and a need to cash in with the PT. Give the readers (and players of games) what they supposedly want: More of the same.

This said, I think the authors seem to have problems of portraying the governments of NR and GA positively. Perhaps this is a result of the fact that governments that work more or less well and are at least somewhat beneficial to the people tend also to be boring. Or at least seen to be so. The usual remedy to this ailment is to transfer the stories to the border regions where the government comes in to contact with less savoury opponents and it's ideals can be tested and criticized without putting the whole government in the quicksand. Culture books do this extremely well. EU has done this occasionally and the results have tended to be good.

Or perhaps the authors are just libertarians etc who hate "Big government" (or other similar political types) and want to tear it all down in fictional universe, when they can't man the barricades in the real world.

 

To be fair, this is a problem with fiction as a whole.

There's a reason that any good government will tend to be depicted ineffective and needing the heroes to save it.

Otherwise there's no story.

HOWEVER, the EU's problem is that its an explicitly Pro-Democracy parable.

Thus there's some values dissonance.

 

Yeah, there's always been some disconnect for me. Princess Leia? The Jedi as an elite group of citizens (this seemed especially apparent to me in the Dark Nest Trilogy). X-Wing pilots abandoning the government because they don't like it's military decisions (I think that was in The Krytos Trap and The Bacta War).

I actually don't have a problem with the depiction of the negative and corrupt aspects of authority systems in Star Wars - I actually like when things aren't all shiny and perfect. What miffs me is that the perspective of the authors just seems all backwards and wonky. Tycho agrees to pretend that the NR falsely arresting him was part of a sting operation, but then the Rogues decide to go AWOL because they don't like what the brass is prioritizing? To me that just seemed all backwards. I'd never agree to what Tycho did, but I sure as heck wouldn't quit the military simply because it had different mission priorities.

 

Yeah, there's always been some disconnect for me. Princess Leia? The Jedi as an elite group of citizens (this seemed especially apparent to me in the Dark Nest Trilogy). X-Wing pilots abandoning the government because they don't like it's military decisions (I think that was in The Krytos Trap and The Bacta War).

Well there's no problem with Princess Leia after ANH since she's Princess of dust.

For me, I honestly wish fans could leave their Randism at home (not you Rebel). In the case of the Jedi, I never got how people had so much difficulty with the idea of incredibly proficient and wise people who chose to serve the multitude as opposed to being rulers themselves.

But the problem with that is that AUTHORS bring their baggage with it. Kyp Durron I believe was fully redeemed but the simple fact is that a true Jedi would have accepted the consequences for his actions. Likewise, we've seen other Jedi get away scott free and that underlines the idea that we're supposed to treat them differently.

 

But there's other forms of warfare beyond that of guerilla rebels against a vast enemy. Why does SW keep returning to this particular variant?

 

Well, it seems that the Republic had a stable, functioning government for the majority of it's thousands of years of existence. You can say that from Palpatine onward, Democratic (For lack of a better term) style of a government has not been able to reach a point where it is stable enough not to be portrayed as foolish. The Government may have been about to turn a corner when the Vong came in and ripped everything to shreds.

 

That's true within the story, but I'm also thinking of looking outside the story too: Why and how does SW always need rebels as opposed to anything else?

 

One could also point out both KOTOR games, in which the Republic is crumbling under Sith pressure, and are effectively the underdog.

I think that's a large part of it -- wanting the heroes to be the underdogs, to be fighting something powerful and winning against the odds.

 

Because the authors want to re-tell the OT. That's why even the Empire needs to be split in two and the supposedly "good" part of it made into rebels in Legacy. Legacy - which, it's deep depts to PT forgotten, is said to be modelled after OT - is prime example of this OT rebellion fetish: Empire has been made into rebels, GA are made into rebels, the Jedi are made into rebels and Cade and his group are a minigroup of rebels in themselves.

 

Which it is the point of this thread to examine Rogue, for much as I'm enjoying Legacy, I do think it is locking SW into a pattern that it shows no inclination to break out of, yet may need to.

 

Part of the problem is Legacy FEELS like Star Wars.

In part because they've at least managed to remember some qualities that made it so.

 

But can't the right SW atmosphere be created without repeating the exact same plots over and over again, like the one where the good guys are reduced to a group of rebels fighting against an overwhelming enemy?

 

Yep.

But the simple fact is that authors can do that (see Jacen Solo) WITHOUT it feeling like Star Wars.

 

The Powers That Be keep returning to this well because it has made money for them in the past and the authors (whether or not its their fault I don't know) keep hitting the reset button on galactic society. So the Sith will always return, the Jedi will always suffer massive losses, and there will be a pivotal Jedi to save the day. This pattern will play out in various forms such as LoTF series (PT relaunch go!) and Legacy comics (OT reset go!) until it becomes unprofitable. Then we might see a fresh look at the SW galaxy, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

Star Wars is basically a story about governments and the people that serve them, right?

Well, then we have 4 choices:

1.) Good Government. Villains are external, heroes have no problems fighting with them and winning in the moral way. Basically a very boring story, and unrealistic. (Only surprise possible would be if they lose, but then they would die and be destroyed going down in a pure and heroic fashion, and most people wouldn't want to read about a pure good government and its selfess heroes and people being destroyed by evil for no fault of their own.)

2.) Bad Government. Villains are the rulers, heroes are the rebels fighting against them for independence or restoration, though the rebels are not always good. The easiest and most common story to portray,

3.) Declining Government. Villains are rising internally, heroes may not know who to fight and are limited by ignorance and the inefficiency of the bureacracy. Also a very common story, but realistic.

4.) Rising Government. Heroes are rising, but small and weak enemies still persist on inside and outside. The trouble is learning how to manage crises and accept the burden of authority, while maintaining moral integrity and refusing temptation, figuring out what is right and what is wrong. Not common, big potential to be boring and too philosophical.


The OT and LEGACY fit into #2, the PT is clearly #3, the NJO is a combination of #3 and #4, and it feels like LOTF started as #4 until Jacen & the GA failed the test and it became a #2 type story.

 

I would have placed NJO, at the start, as just as such an opportunity for SW to break its pattern whilst retaining those essential qualities that make it SW: to have a strong government backed by the Jedi yet is up against a truly terrifying enemy. There is still that sense of them being up against it as the Vong invade by the billions in a homicidal horde yet it was not to be.

 

Jedi Ben

I would have placed NJO, at the start, as just as such an opportunity for SW to break its pattern whilst retaining those essential qualities that make it SW: to have a strong government backed by the Jedi yet is up against a truly terrifying enemy. There is still that sense of them being up against it as the Vong invade by the billions in a homicidal horde yet it was not to be.

I think it would have made for a much better story if there hadn't been a rift in the Jedi Order itself, and if there hadn't been a rift between the government and the Jedi. The YV were quite enough of a challenge. They didn't need extra conflicts between the NR and the Jedi and between the Action Faction and the Pacifists in the Jedi.

 

Simply put, people love underdogs. There's very little drama in a story when the hero is stronger than/in a superior position over the villain. We already know the hero will win, of course. It's never a question if the hero will be victorious, but how he'll bring that victory about. If it's obvious, it doesn't hold our interest long. The way to not make it obvious is to make the enemy extremely powerful, and you don't get much more powerful than being the authority of an entire Galaxy.

 

As an extreme example, let's look at A New Hope and make Luke, Leia, Han, Obi-Wan, and Chewie into part of the Imperial War Machine. They are the heroes and we cheer for them to somehow find a way to survive an attack by a few dozen snub fighters while sailing around in a moon sized space station that can blow up planets. "Chewie, turn on the automatic targeting canons and swat those pests away? Already done? Good."

When the heroes win when they are SUPPOSED to win/would have to try really hard to lose it simply doesn't make for an interesting story.