Authors playing favorites.

[image=http://www.decipher.com/starwars/cardlists/reflections2/light/large/corranhorn.html] Help! Is this person Corran Horn or Mike Stackpole!?! ?

 

It's Corran Baggins from the Shire

Stackpole does look like a Hobbit in that picture.

 

If anything, Kyle Katarn trained her a bit with what he knew during Mysteries of the Sith. That's about it.

Whoops! How could I forget that- the last instance where I actually liked her. If they had continued the character with her personality displayed her- loyal, loving, dedicated, driven, caring- you know, all those qualities that male authors usually forget to add into their males with boobs female characters, I might actually still enjoy her character.

 

Yeah that card is weird...
Doesn't look like Corran at all. The did a good job with Mirax and Mara. Look at the Thrawn its horrible.

 

Look at the Thrawn its horrible.

Tell me about it! What were they thinking? That guy just looks goofy!

I always pictured Thrawn looking more like this guy:

[image=http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2002/02/01/brotherhood/story.jpg]

Minus the long hair, of course, with red eyes. And blue ski... okay, maybe he doesn't look so much like Thrawn. I just imagined someone with chisled features; statuesque, as if carved out of stone.

~PAd

 

hey your forgetting that Luke didn't have much training from his masters before he took on and then beat vader, Padawans take years and years to grow into their force skills, but between his short training under Ben and his short training under Yoda, he become a Jedi master and beat darth vadar. Plus Mara was learning about the force since she war a little child from Palps. Even though she looses those some of those skills she could build on what she knew very easily with Lukes Training

 

Luke became a Jedi Master six years after he defeated Darth Vader, in the comic series Dark Empire. He defeated the Dark Side from within and began to train Kam Solusar.

 

and Mara won her right when she killed Luuke, AND C'baoth during the Thrawn Trilogy, she won her battle with the emperors last command by not killing luke. That if anything shows that she had the potential to become a Jedi Master and with some training from Luke the RIGHT to become a Jedi master

 

hey your forgetting that Luke didn't have much training from his masters before he took on and then beat vader, Padawans take years and years to grow into their force skills, but between his short training under Ben and his short training under Yoda, he become a Jedi master and beat darth vadar.

Um, no. All Luke said was that he was a Jedi, which is what Yoda said- he must defeat Vader, only then will a Jedi you be.

[...]

Yoda: Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong! Twilight is upon me, and soon, night must fall. That is the way of things...the way of the Force.

Luke: But I need your help. I've come back to complete the training.

Yoda: No more training do you require. Already know you that which you need.

Yoda sighs, lying back in his bed.

Luke: Then I am a Jedi.

Yoda: [shakes his head] Ohhh. Not yet. One thing remains. Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be. And confront him you will.

From the 'Annotated Screenplays' by Laurent Bouzereau, p. 266-267

[...]

Emperor: Good! Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!

Luke looks at his father's mechanical hand, then to his own mehcanical, black gloved hand, and realizes how much he is becoming like his father. He makes a decision for which he has spent a life time in preparation. Luke switches off his lightsaber.

Luke: Never!

Luke casts his lightsaber away.

Luke: I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.

[...]

From the 'Annotated Screenplays' by Laurent Bouzereau, p. 312

Plus Mara was learning about the force since she war a little child from Palps.

Again, as I said, was pretty much worthless.

Even though she looses those some of those skills she could build on what she knew very easily with Lukes Training

Which, as has already been pointed out, was next to no training at all.

 

PAd,

Minus the long hair, of course, with red eyes. And blue ski... okay, maybe he doesn't look so much like Thrawn. I just imagined someone with chisled features; statuesque, as if carved out of stone.

Thrawn as an Anne Rice Eurotrash blood sucker? Yea, I could see that. He would have to be plenty smarmy like Thrawn also.

 

Plus Mara was learning about the force since she war a little child from Palps.

Yeah so? Palpatine would never train any of his Force adepts to the extent that Vader was trained in the Dark Side of the Force. Basically she could do a few TK tricks, increase her stamina and talk to the Emperor from the other side of the Galaxy. Palpatine wouldn't give her the training that Luke received from Yoda.

I bet the younglings from Episode II could do more than she could.

 

Who's stronger...



...Mari Amythest or Mara Jade.

 

Yeah so? Palpatine would never train any of his Force adepts to the extent that Vader was trained in the Dark Side of the Force. Basically she could do a few TK tricks, increase her stamina and talk to the Emperor from the other side of the Galaxy. Palpatine would never train her the way that Luke was trained by Yoda.

Given I suspect Palpy knew Vader would eventually betray him, this makes a lot of sense. Vader he could deal with, but if he trained all of his Hands to the extent Vader was, that would be excessively stupid and dangerous, because sooner or later the dark side would compell them to attempt to take him down. Dealing with one Dark Lord is problem, dealing with 50 is suicide.

Who's stronger...



...Mari Amythest or Mara Jade.

Mari Amythest, of course! After she left the Emperor she sought out and was trained by Qu Rahn until he was killed, then finished up her training under Kyle Katarn and Luke Skywalker. Plus, she spent all those years helping people, fighting bad guys, and fought valiantly against the Yuuzhan Vong (p'tui!).

 

yes, but I'm saying Luke became a Jedi after defeating Vader, Mara became more or less became a jedi after killing Luuke and Cbaoth, Also their was many times Luke was teaching her the Jedi ways, she was learning from him on Myrk(which took them a week or two to get to Mount Tantis) she was learning for a little while during the JAT, also from HOT and NJO she was learning under Luke

Secondly, because one doens't know every single nuance and trick a jedi has up their sleeves doesn't mean they can't teach others, I don't think Cilghal was every very good at lightsaber battle and doesn't have the expierance of others have in this field means that she can't teach other JediKnights

Thirdly, Luke says shes a Jedi master, that's enough for me to believe she's a Jedi master.

 

Exactly, Kier. Palpatine was no stupid man. He knew how ambitious some of his adepts were, namely Jerec. He wouldn't risk giving them proper training and put his own precious life in danger.

Thirdly, Luke says shes a Jedi master, that's enough for me to believe she's a Jedi master.

Well of course he'll call her a Jedi Master. She's sleeping with him.

 

Well of course he'll call her a Jedi Master. She's sleeping with him.

ROTFLMAO!

 

But, in Mara's case it seems to have nothing to do with training. She simply wasn't that powerful.

As a Hand, her use of the Force was akin to some battery which drained itself when she lost her ties to Palpatine.

It wasn't that she wasn't trained or able to be trained. It's that training was worthless on her because she wasn't powerful.

Chalk it up to her defective clone nature.

 

I don't think that Vadar could have killed Palpatine anytime he wants he only killed Palpatine because palpatine was really good with a lightsaber. Luke beat Vadar and the empire beat Luke. Palps also beat Darth Maul. That means that Palpatine didn't train Darth Vadar in everything he knows means that he could have trained Mara more than you think. Mara did know how to use a Lighsaber she did that Paparak cross-cut in the HOT and knew a few things about lightsabers. She could wipe the floor with the youglings.

 

NO WAY is Mara Jade worthy of being a master. THink about it this way, it would take at least 20 years for a baby to become a "regular" Jedi Knight. It takes a lifetime to become a master. Luke is the only exception, because for a long time he was the only Jedi. Luke confronted the Dark Side numerous times and won, and that's the reason why he is a Jedi Master. He's a master because he learned from the LAST master, and THE master, Yoda.

the mindmeld thing sounds like a bad excuse to make Mara a master, and that's the only thing that would make her even a jedi knight.

If Lucas had his way, Luke would be the Yoda of the NJO era, but it seems he's not even to the caliber of Obi-Wan in the way he's perceived by his peers. This is not an attempt to start a whole EU vs. Lucas tangent in this thread, but I think the writers have done a pathetic job in portraying Luke in the NJO. He doesn't seem wise at all. Luke has been a Jedi for 20 years, twice as long as anybody else, and has been training people for at least half that time, but in the way he's portrayed in the NJO, he hasn't gained any wisdom in the past 10 years. Per the NJO, Luke is only a shell of what he should be at this point in his life. He says something, and then has others rebuke him and he just buckles. He carries no respect among the Jedi except the fact that he was the first. He's manipulated and duped in the NJO, and I think that's wrong. Two generations before Luke, there were thousands of Jedi, but only 13 (?) masters. Now there's maybe 2 dozen (not counting younglings) and we have a "bunch" of them Masters. that's a big crock, it's like they have a quota to fill. When did the Jedi become traffic cops? I understand part of that is due to the fact that many of the EU stories (pre-NJO) revolving around Jedi were written when TPM was only being conceptualized, and that movie opened up what it really is to be a Jedi.

So Mara knows Luke in and out, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to knowing the force.

Do I expect Luke to be as wise as Yoda? No. But I do expect at least a little Mace Windu out of him. From the NJO, I don't even get AOTC Obi-Wan.

 

P.S. I wanted to add this:

I know it's the NEW jedi order, but personally I think the NEW way is stupid compared to the OLD. The OLD way had 4 distinct levels of the Jedi:

1. Master
2. Knight
3. Padawans
4. Youngling

The NEW way seems to blend the top 3 into one level. I know "technically" the books say that these people are knights, these aren't, these people are masters, and these aren't, but i don't think anyone should invest too much in what a dramatis personae says since they haven't been too consistent in the course of the NJO. If it acts like a padawan, looks like a knight, but calls itself a master, what really is it?

I hope that the NEW way doesn't become permanent after the NJO series is over. Because the new way is disorganized, and portrays that a 14-year old who can use a lightsaber well is on par with a 40-year old who has been a Jedi for longer than the 14 year old has been alive.

 

Uhhh...there were A LOT more than THIRTEEN Jedi Masters, sorry. Dooku, the entire Council, Syfo-Dyas, Ranik Solusar, Qu Rahn, Nejaa Halcyon, Qui-Gon, Jorus C'Boath and on and on and on. There were plenty of Jedi Masters. Probably a hundred. Which is realistic, even conservative, given there's a ratio of like twenty Jedi over all to one Master in the NJO, and given my guess of a hundred, that's one hundred overall Jedi for each Master.

EDIT: Is Youngling really a Jedi rank or part of Yoda's speech impediment?

EDIT 2.0: Luke is beyond ATOC Obi-Wan by ROTJ. Knows better than Obi-Wan who really knew his father that Vader was redeemable, and actually pulled it off AND defeated him, both of which Obi-Wan POST AOTC failed on. I get a little Mace Windu out of Luke Skywalker. Especially when the Jango decapitation scene reminds me of how I imagined Luke decapitating that Nightsister.

 

Qu Rahn was a Jedi Master?

 

I believe so. Maybe I'm deluded. Where's Val when you need him?

 

The NEW way seems to blend the top 3 into one level.

Nope. Tahiri and Valen certainly are not lumped in with that group, both are counted as learners.

And for the record, Mara Jade is only listed as a an 8th level Jedi Guardian in the Core Rule Book, 5 levels off being a Master. And personally, I don't even think she's that good.

 

If I'm not mistaken, what quantifies being a Jedi Master is sitting on the council, and last time I checked Qui-Gon and others you mentioned did not sit on the council. Yes, Obi-Wan commented that Qui-Gon would've been on the council if he wasn't so bull-headed, so "technically" he wasn't a master.

I think I'm right on this because someone asked the Jedi Council at TOS if Obi-Wan was a master because people called him Master Obi-Wan. Jocastu Nu (or whoever) replied that no he wasn't, meaning that Master is just a title like Mr. or Mrs., etc. when it comes to Jedi KNIGHTS. When you take on a padawan you don't become a master. If I'm wrong, someone correct me, but I don't think I am.

Here's the system as I understand:

"Younglings" (if that's what they really are called) are jedi hopefuls. They are young and receive all their training at the temple on Coruscant. Being a youngling does not automatically mean you will grow up to be a knight, but you are in training. Younglings are younglings until around age 10 or so, and then they can be taken on as padawan learners to a Jedi Knight (or master). But I haven't heard where this ascension is inevitable and mandatory. I would think that not everybody is ready and there maybe 20 year olds out there with some force training, but never made the leap up. Just like there's lots of people alive today who never graduated from high school (and some that didn't make it that far) Anakin Skywalker skipped the youngling stage, which is so pivotal in becoming a "proper" Jedi. once a padawan you can leave Coruscant. You will follow your "master" whereever the council sends him, blah blah blah. This is Anakin between TPM and until AOTC. In order to become an official KNight, you must pass the trials. Since there was no council in Luke's day, his "trial" was confronting Vader. It's obvious that an event can define whether you are ready to become a knight, such as Obi-Wan's defeat of Darth Maul and Luke's defeat of Vader & the Emperor. We've seen there are many Knights. Look at the battle in AOTC, and I'm sure there were thousands elsewhere in the galaxy, since Mace probably only summoned the few hundred that were there at the Temple. He didn't have time to call the Knight and his padawan that were way off on the other side of the galaxy. I don't know what distinguishes a knight from a master except the obvious in that the master is superior in all aspects of the force than the knight. Obviously it isn't too exclusive since the council is able to quickly replace any lost member, but I doubt very much that any 'ol knight can sit on the council. I doubt there is a waiting list of 100 jedi that will be on the council if a member dies or leaves.

That's my beliefs on the Jedi Order. I get that solely from the movies, since I haven't read the JA novels. So for anyone who has read most of hte JA novels, please correct me if i'm wrong anywhere.