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Avoiding conflict? I don't think so!

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Saint_of_Killers, Feb 12, 2003.

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  1. Saint_of_Killers

    Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Hi Josh. I'd just like to point out that you're getting just as much conflict over your homophobic policies as you would from the religious folk if you had a more fair policy.

    The horse is not dead. And if it truly is dead, the thread would sink on it's own. No need to lock threads and stifle discussion. what are you afraid of? That so many people will disagree with your policies that you'll look really bad for not changing them?

    Of all the people who chimed in with their opinions of the "no same sex relationships in fanfic" policy, thirteen(13) were clearly in favour of a more fair policy, including three(3) mods.

    Eight(8) were clearly against a change in current policy, including three(3) mods.

    Now, it looks as if of the people who care enough about this issue to post about it, more are in favour of a change to a more fair policy.

    "So instead of opening themselves up to hate mail, criticism, and boycotts of their own, the TF.N staff/owners has decided to make a call that avoids all that."

    You're avoiding nothing, huge threads on the subject prove.

    Who, exactly do you think would boycott TFN over something so petty? Although their loudness would suggest otherwise, there really are very few people so backward and ignorant as to leave TFN altogether over something like that.

    By keeping this policy, you encourage bigotry, fundementalism. You encourage the idea that homosexuality is something to be condemned and avoided.

    I, and many others, think that the policy on same sex relationships in fanfic posted here should be changed to a more fair policy, reflecting our more enlightened times.

    Please, don't close this thread. Allow us to discuss the issue. After all, no matter what we think, you're still under no obligation to anything. This discussion is no threat to you. Please, let the discussion continue.

    Edit: Please see last post.
     
  2. obaona

    obaona Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    But the issue has already been decided, so isn't it pointless to keep debating it here in Comms?

    [edit] If you really want to discuss this issue fairly and reasonably, stop attacking Josh.
     
  3. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I would ask, out of all the people saying people would boycott, how many are saying they would boycott?

    It strikes me as odd that none of these people who care so much as to boycott care so much as to take part in the discussion.

    And I'm absolutely shocked that a staff mod would make a half assed moderating error like that, just shocked. Really.
     
  4. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Agreed. Since when are kids not allowed to write about homosexuality and bisexuality in the classroom? If it's school friendly, then it is more than JC friendly.

    Of course, fics which continue on in a manner to be an erotica smut fic aren't acceptable, just as that wouldn't be accepted in school.

    But to have homosexual characters in a well written fix be banned is ludicrous. There are a few homosexual characters in the Expanded Univsere too. OMG LETZ BANE TEH EU!!12! OMGOM!MO!M
     
  5. obaona

    obaona Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    There are a few homosexual characters in the Expanded Univsere too.

    Where?
     
  6. Saint_of_Killers

    Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Fenn and Ghitsa, a lesbian couple who appear in a few short stories in the tales books, and there's a gay imperial officer in one of Crispin's Solo books.
     
  7. obaona

    obaona Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    I think the fact that I don't remember any such thing is telling about how major that was. [face_plain]

    Besides, the issue has been decided. This is his site, he owns it, its his decision. That's why Josh locked the other thread. It was turning into a 'let's rant at and about Josh' thread.
     
  8. Qui Gon Jim23

    Qui Gon Jim23 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Opposing the administration sure makes for some strange bedfellows.
     
  9. Night4554

    Night4554 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2000
    Fenn and Ghitsa, a lesbian couple who appear in a few short stories in the tales books

    Fenn and Ghista? Who led the Mystrl (sp?) on that round-about? They're not lesbians, sorry. Fenn actually has a huge crush on Solo. I know that doesn't mean that they couldn't be lesbians, but I don't remeber anything indicating one way or the other. What Story specifically are you getting this from? I'll re-read it to be sure.

    ¤Night
     
  10. Saint_of_Killers

    Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Moff Tavira from the X-Wing comics and I Jedi was also bisexual, I believe.
     
  11. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    And the mdos have decided if you're involved ina thread it's much better to let another mod deal with it, but staff mods are above such petty standards?

    They mods once banend political sigs for all of 5 minutes too, damn those fools who stood up to them!

    Edit// clearly NOT clearly gay hahaha oh man.
     
  12. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Fenn and Ghitsa, a lesbian couple who appear in a few short stories in the tales books, and there's a gay imperial officer in one of Crispin's Solo books.

    //Lit Mod enters... no one leaves...

    Fen and Ghitsa were NOT lesbians of any sort. Fen was clearly heterosexual as it was her fiancee that was shived (shot?) in some previous time (as she mentions to Zeth nee Kyp Durron). Fen and Ghitsa were just business partners. If one of them were a lesbian, neither of them made a move on docile, Twi'leki slaves. So, no.

    The Imperial in question just didn't have a taste for HUMAN females -- it was unclear whether it was for non-human females or men. So quite ambiguous and clearly NOT clearly gay.
     
  13. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    I think the fact that I don't remember any such thing is telling about how major that was.

    I forgot that you were the scale by which something being important or not was judged. [face_plain]

    Anyway, it's really up to Josh I suppose, and I'm not going to get involved any more.
     
  14. Jane Jinn

    Jane Jinn Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    I did not post on the other thread, because I was afraid that I would put my foot in it and end up offending other people. But I believe that homosexuality is a great and grievous sin, and if TFN were to change its policy regarding slash fanfics, I would no longer feel comfortable coming here. I suppose you could call it a boycott. I think Josh is doing the right thing, for whatever reason, and I applaud his decision to stand firm and not change his policy.

     
  15. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    I am really angry that people turned that homophobia thread which had valid points in it... INTO a freakin fanfic policy debate.

    That was not even the original poster's point. Man... you wanna see bias? Look at how my attempts to get the thread back on topic were IGNORED by these people who just wanted to rant. And got the thread closed by Josh. Good job.

    [face_plain]

     
  16. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Uh, since when does this site base decisions on religions? (It's a sin), or personal opinions (I say...)?
     
  17. Saint_of_Killers

    Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    So, we have one person who would boycott, 8 who just oppose a change but wouldn't leave over it, and 13(or more counting this thread) who want a change.
     
  18. JediGaladriel

    JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 1999
    I am really angry that people turned that homophobia thread which had valid points in it... INTO a freakin fanfic policy debate.

    Well, I think the original point was pretty much answered--most people agreed that calling something "gay" as an insult was not the Done Thing, and it should be strongly discoruaged. At least one edit has already been made that I've seen. Same with other expressions of the sort. It morphed into the argument about fanfic because the question became whether or not the no slash policy is itself a deliberate insult in need of correction.
     
  19. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    And I'm wiaiting for the mods to put the hammer down on POT allowing homosexual relationships in roleplaying.
     
  20. obaona

    obaona Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    8 who just oppose a change but wouldn't leave over it

    No one said that.


    I forgot that you were the scale by which something being important or not was judged.

    I think the Lit person answered that. My point, at the time, was that it was probably just your point of view.

    [edit] If slash were permitted, it would make me uncomfortable. The thing I have always liked about this site is that I know I'm not going to run into anything offensive or shocking. Feeling like I don't have to be on constant guard is a nice feeling, and one I don't want to lose. So its possible I would visit the site less often, or entirely.
     
  21. jedi_master_ousley

    jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Personally, I don't want it to be changed, but that's just me.
     
  22. Jane Jinn

    Jane Jinn Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    I'm waiting, too. It's my understanding that this is a site-wide policy, and that slash role-playing should not be allowed, either.
     
  23. Qui Gon Jim23

    Qui Gon Jim23 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    So, we have one person who would boycott, 8 who just oppose a change but wouldn't leave over it, and 13(or more counting this thread) who want a change.

    I dare say that using a more scientific sampling of the JC you'd find that you are far in the minority.
     
  24. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    My point, at the time, was that it was probably just your point of view.

    Sorry, I didn't bring up the specific characters in the EU, or say that they were important. Wrong person.
     
  25. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Dare dare.

    The entire arguement is based on the presumption those who don't want it are vocally opposed and would leave the JC, sadly however every time it is argued those who are vocally opposed and boycott likely turn out to be silent.

    So could you be right? sure. are you right? who knows?
     
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