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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Avoiding conflict? I don't think so!

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Saint_of_Killers, Feb 12, 2003.

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  1. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Ladies, if you're going to have a cat fight please go to the JCC so the horny preeteen dateless males can watch you mudwrestle for superiority.

    Otherwise, please keep the scratching, clawing, and eye-gouging to a minimum.

    In any case, while the poll will not be binding, I think its a good step toward making Josh realize the consequences of his decision.
     
  2. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    Mmmm? mud-wresting and catfights. :cool:




    Uh, carry on.

    (Hey, everyone has their turn-ons! :D)
     
  3. EmpressPalpatine

    EmpressPalpatine Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2001
    bottom line.. as long as the fanfics (whatever their content or persuasion ) are kept within the TOS then they should be allowed...

    and on the argument of words... cause while I understand that homosexuality is considered a deviance from the social "norm", the tern deviant in itself implies more than just veering from the norm, it now implies a whole slew of mental problems, mainly due to it's being used by uneducated buffoons as an insult, who have since tainted that word with a negative connotation..

     
  4. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    *sigh*

    No... I just get really tired of people reading things into my post that isn't there... (ie "Oral Sex" in that passage...)

    It's incredibly frustrating... One day I'm just gonna 'POP' and 'AIM' a load of vulgarities at people....

    :eek: :p
     
  5. Whimper

    Whimper Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 1999
    Thanks as always for the encouragement, Bithysith and anakin_girl. :)
     
  6. Coota

    Coota Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2002
    My personal opinion on this issue, regardless of my playing devils advocate, is that while homosexuality can work perfectly well in the Star Wars universe, it shouldn't be used with main characters who have been established as heterosexual.

    For years I refused to write anything except original character fic because I was afraid of screwing up Lucas's characterizations of the characters. Eventually I figured that as long as I was incredibly close, it would be alright. Doing as something as blatant as changing their sexualities seems to be doing Mr. Lucas a grave disservice.

    I don't have a problem with homosexuality and I think that it probably should be allowed on the boards, but I don't feel slash fics dealing with established heterosexual characters should be allowed. I mean, if you're going to change a character's nature that much, why not just create an original character for the same purpose?

    Edit: I also believe that changing an established homosexual character from someone elses work to a heterosexual character would also be a travesty, just to clear up any confusion.
     
  7. EmpressPalpatine

    EmpressPalpatine Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Bravo, Coota.. well said... I applaud you...


    and as always, I am available for Jello wrestling....

     
  8. YoungJedi11

    YoungJedi11 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    Mmmm? mud-wresting and catfights.

    :D
     
  9. Lyart_Triath

    Lyart_Triath Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 11, 2002
    Another thing is, and this point is made time and time again, this is Josh's party, we're just the guest. And that means we're goiing to have to dance to his tune. If it got to be to much of a headache he could close down the fan-fiction section all together. As much as we think of this as "home" we need to realize that he's made the rules and set the "conditions" for use (i.e. the TOS) and if he decides to change them, then really the only choice we have it to adapt or move on. Realistically <sic> boycotting the site would only add to the headache and not make it worth his trouble to mess with.

    I know for a fact that boycotts against sites never work.

    I wa a "oldbie/regular" on the official Star Trek site at one point (back in the PDE days with IRC rooms) and when the IRC server contract was farmed out to a new company there were new rules. People didn't like the rules, so they started nuking, hacking, and "boycotting" the server. We had petitions, we flooded chats of the celebs, you name it. (I never did this but some of my friends did, the worse I did was start a e-mail campaign to one of main site admins asking him to review the new company's policies and let the chatters "advise" on who should and shouldn't be mods; due to the fact he "hired" the hackers who crashed the server stole personal infom from our accounts...anyway) The renegade chatters even called themselves PDE Maquis (cute eh?) Well it got to be some much of a hassle that PDE decided that giving away free chat room, that they were paying a company to admin and were doing nothing but causing headaches and get the main site hacked, were simply no long "proffitable". So they closed them down and kicked the whole lot of the group out. To this day a group of roughly 200+ chatters are now down to about 15 that still actively chat.

    Morale? Website-- even The Force.Net-- cost money and by nature are a business, and if they're not worth the time and money...so long website. Do believe me? Just ask the people that used to go to SSBBS (Slip Stream BBS).
     
  10. Lyta_Skywalker

    Lyta_Skywalker Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2002
    I disagree with you on that, for the following reason (one I have been working for a year to get into the head of my room mate who is both a SW FF writer and Beta) that each and every writer has his or her on perception of the characters, and it is not mine nor your position on how a writer interprets the characterization. An example I would use would be Wedge/Wes fic, while I do not see either character as being gay, I can at the same time see an extension of their relationship to that of a homosexual one.

    Just my 2 creds worth.

    Jaded
     
  11. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    And of course it would be considered AU, like much of the fanfic out there.

    Take for example, what if Han Solo were female? (Hannah Solo?)

    At that point if she was attracted to Leia, would that be following the characterization or not?

    If she fell for Leia as she did in the universe where she was a he, then you could have a rather impressive statment for love being transcendent.

    On the other hand you could reverse the whole hilarious love triangle and have both of them going for Luke.

    Whatever, have fun.
     
  12. Guinastasia

    Guinastasia Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Not to mention that there are many characters whose sexuality has not been established-there has been no mention of it at all. (Mon Mothma, Crix Madine, Pellaeon, etc).

    So, there you go.

     
  13. Ariana Lang

    Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 1999
    I hope you all realize that the more drama you create and the more personal attacks you make, the less likely this is of ever happening. Just state your reason, put a smiley on the end, and be done with it.
     
  14. YoungJedi11

    YoungJedi11 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    Take for example, what if Han Solo were female? (Hannah Solo?)

    At that point if she was attracted to Leia, would that be following the characterization or not?

    If she fell for Leia as she did in the universe where she was a he, then you could have a rather impressive statment for love being transcendent.


    If that were the case, then this discussion would never have taken place. Almost everything about Star Wars as we know it would be changed, and there would obviously be no problem about homosexuality on these boards or on anything else having to do with Star Wars.
     
  15. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Givne that you appear to not be even a casual participent in fanfic, I'll point out that AU means alternate universe.

    My question was related to someone writing a fanfic to that effect not to having Han be a woman in the original 1977 release.
     
  16. YoungJedi11

    YoungJedi11 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    Ah, gotcha. Sorry. :)
     
  17. Ternian

    Ternian Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2000
    Hey, it's 2003 - the 21st Century.

    There are gay people. African's are equal to white people. Women have the same rights as men.

    Catch up if you missed a few lessons.
     
  18. Whimper

    Whimper Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 1999
    It's the 21st century all right, but "Africans" are only equal to "white people" on paper, statistics still show all sorts of racism still exists in worker treatment, hiring practices, salary, and so forth.

    It's the 21st century all right, but women's rights are equal to men's only on paper. Statistics still show all sorts of sexism and discrimination in worker treatment, hiring practices, salaries, job duties, and so forth.


    Both of these are examples of how constant vigilance is needed to even out the playing field. I think that this is very much the case with homosexuality, bi-sexuality, and non-traditional families now. We here at the JC should be open to change, not resistant to it.

    When I signed the TOS, I didn't realize it was a membership to Landover Baptist.
     
  19. YoungJedi11

    YoungJedi11 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    It's the 21st century all right, but "Africans" are only equal to "white people" on paper, statistics still show all sorts of racism still exists in worker treatment, hiring practices, salary, and so forth.

    It's the 21st century all right, but women's rights are equal to men's only on paper. Statistics still show all sorts of sexism and discrimination in worker treatment, hiring practices, salaries, job duties, and so forth.


    I agree. Though by all accounts it seems we should be past such discrimination, we aren't.
     
  20. Charis

    Charis Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Very interesting debate. I'm not against homosexual relationships in fanfic and agree with those asking for equality. It's simple - if it is marked then you don't have to read it. If it isn't allowed, then people who wish to read it can't.

    However, Lucasfilms' view is that the characters they own should not be portrayed as homosexuals, but they have never taken a site to court just because it hosts slash fiction involving their characters, even the R-rated fanfic. This stance by Lucasfilms does not stop authors from creating their own gay characters as those would be the property of the author.
     
  21. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Actually I thought Lucasfilm's expressed view was that their characters should not be portrayed in a non family friendly way.

    I will of course admit the deifnitions of family friendly differ, but if you have backing for your specific claim I would be happy to admit to it.

    Edit// Upon looking things up, I've found very clear references to Lfl punishing people hosting script fragments and storyboards, a few less clear ones to Lfl craking down on a few sites with NC-17 and X-rated fanfic, and some very vague claims to Lfl being against slash, but for PG fanfic.
    Now I think the author of that article was refering to slash as the Nc-17 type of fanfic(which I am fairly certain LFL has taken on as 'not family friendly' but I do not think that he was refering to LFL banning all portrayal of it's characters as homosexuals.

    I could of course be wrong.
     
  22. HL&S

    HL&S Magistrate Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2001
    If Lucasfilm can have homosexuals play Star Wars characters then I see no reason why they'd have any problems with homosexual characters. Surely Lucasfilm has shown the sexual preferences of some of it's main characters, but there are others who remain a mystery.

    Also i believe the family orientated guide line went out the window with R2-D2's web documentary. I believe he was an alcoholic in some parts of that.

    Plus this is a freaking chat forum. They're not going to care.

     
  23. anakin_girl

    anakin_girl Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2000
    It's the 21st century all right, but "Africans" are only equal to "white people" on paper, statistics still show all sorts of racism still exists in worker treatment, hiring practices, salary, and so forth.

    It's the 21st century all right, but women's rights are equal to men's only on paper. Statistics still show all sorts of sexism and discrimination in worker treatment, hiring practices, salaries, job duties, and so forth.


    *applauds*

    Whimper, I could kiss you. [face_love]
     
  24. Charis

    Charis Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Tf.n they care about and this chat forum is linked to Tf.n.

    The article I got the info from is in a UK law journal. It doesn't state what "level" of slash Lucasfilms is against and there is perhaps some journalistic bias creeping in as well. You have a good point Farraday.
     
  25. imzadi

    imzadi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    This topic moves so quickly! I understand "slash" to mean a story with any same-sex relationships/feelings and such. "Smut" is sexually explicit material involving any orientation.
     
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