Avoiding conflict? I don't think so!

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Saint_of_Killers, Feb 12, 2003.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2000
    star 6
    You have a right to have homosexuals in your fanfics, but sexual acts are not permitted. These are the rules. Quit trying to stir up drama you monkeys."

    Yet, light het sexual acts are permitted. We're just trying to get equal treatment here.


    He'd like to know how the people who write slash, which seems mostly to be made up of girls from 16-25 and are presumbably straight, could possibly know about what goes on in the minds of gay people....

    Two words: we don't. That's why it's called 'fiction'. :p

    Most slash written is m/m slash, and very few of the writers are even male. As you can imagine, there's a lot of fanon and slash cliches. :) Though, we are all open to advice...


    Like all places that put stories up, there are certain things that govern what is published. And as all sites are at their freedom to do, they can place a restriction on the type/genre of stories that are published. <snip> though is what if a site decided that they would only wish to publish action stories, and all those that deal with romance, personal inspection and more were not going to be published on their site?

    yet, the JC is not such a specialized site. The fanfic forum, along with the Archive, contian stories that are Action/Adventure, Drama, humor, etc. The only restriction is on slash, which can cover as many genres as both gen and het. The JC has never prolciamed itself a speicailized site; it has just disallowed slash.


    There is no guarantee that anything will change, but it never hurts to give things a try, and present things in a rational format.

    I want a gaurantee he'll read it and consider it. I said that in the modsquad and I'm saying it again here. Else, I won't organize it. Someone else can, but I have enough on my plate without adding something futile to the pile.


    Like Hawk, I agree with farrie. :)
  2. Ternian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2000
    star 4
    Is it reasonable to conclude that this topic is not about homosexuality in fanfics but rather erotica in fanfics?

    If it is about erotica, I am strongly against it. I don't care if you are hetero, homo of have a fetish for one legged astro chickens. This is a family forum.

    If erotica IS allowed, then the site cannot ban the publication of homosexual-related fiction. Simply as.



  3. farraday Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Ternian with all due respect, I think you haven't bothered to read this thread, or atleast haven't finished processing what you have read.

    All most of us are asking for is that the same stadards that apply to hetero fanfic be applied to ssr fanfic, that is same sex relationship fanfic.
  4. Kadue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    The JC however is a mutlifaceted site that covered pretty much every aspect of SW fandom

    Yes, we are a site that deals with a large number of aspects related to SW (and some not), but we don't deal with everything. Until only a few months ago there was nothing that dealt with SW fan sites, which are a large section of net based SW talk. Even now the forum for that is mainly general web stuff.

    We also exclude a very large facet of online SW fandom, the trading of collectables between fans. We don't have anything against those that do this, and many people here on the forums, and on the staffs of both the forums and the site, do participate in this. It is just that it has been decided that these transactions are not to take place here on TFN/JC. I'll also give you one guess as to why.


    Again, I'm not saying that things will never change, or that this is the absolute "right" policy (and let's be realistic, there are many other issues where we don't do that either for various reasons), but just saying that "This is wrong because you are deliberately discriminating, change it now" isn't going to alter the stance that has been decided. Whether you choose to believe it or not, or agree with it or not, there is a reason behind why it was decided that the slash genre not be included in the Fan Fic sections. If you give Josh some sound reasoning he might rethink things (but I can in no way give any guarantee about anything that Josh will do).

    As for the question of gay characters at all, I'll get clarification on that rather than have various interpretations on what is thought to be the case.
  5. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    If erotica IS allowed, then the site cannot ban the publication of homosexual-related fiction. Simply as.

    Actually, yes we could. This site is privately owned. If the site owners decided that the Literature forum was a blight on Star Wars (no smart anti-EU comments, please ;)) and deleted it, that's their decision to make. I?d hate the decision and leave the boards. But I wouldn?t argue that they had the right to make that decision. These forums run on their computers, and they can allow or disallow whatever they want.

    Whether it?s morally right to disallow some things or not is a different question, and the focus of this thread.
  6. Guinastasia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    My point is, it's about more than just sex. It's about love and companionship, as well.

  7. Vaderbait Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Again, "slash" doesn't mean explicit sexuality, and I wonder if you would worry about these girls if they were writing heterosexual romance stories...

    First off, the term "slash" isn't a pretty term. I doubt it describes mere feelings for someone, no matter how hard you pretty it up.

    Their parents should worry just as if guys were writing lesbian fics. It's an unhealthy fascination.
  8. Guinastasia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    If that's true, Vaderbait, then why does the porn industry spend so much time with lesbian scenarios in male-targeted porn?

  9. Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2000
    star 6
    First off, the term "slash" isn't a pretty term. I doubt it describes mere feelings for someone, no matter how hard you pretty it up.

    I *am* going to scream. The term "slash" has nothing to do with violence. the term "slash" refers to the / between the pairing names. And please don't make judgments on what is does describe or what fics it entails unless you've ever actually seen a slash archive.
  10. farraday Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    And Kadue, while you're at it ask if describing a human male as not into human females would be enough to get your fanfic editted.
  11. The Man Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 1999
    star 1

    As long as it isn't overly graphic, I don't see what the big deal is. And this of course also applies to non-slash fics.

  12. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Vaderbait, maybe you should go and see what slash means before making snap judgements, ok? Furthermore, i don't see whats wrong with teenage girls writing romance stories. I don't see your point.
  13. wadda_u_know Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 5
    "As long as it isn't overly graphic, I don't see what the big deal is. And this of course also applies to non-slash fics."

    That's exactly how I feel. As long as it doesn't violate the Terms of Service, and nowhere in the TOS does it say "All homosexual Star Wars fantasies will be censored, erased, and flogged for being deviant."

    I hate seeing discrimination anywhere against anyone.
  14. Ternian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2000
    star 4
    Actually, yes we could. This site is privately owned. If the site owners decided that the Literature forum was a blight on Star Wars (no smart anti-EU comments, please ) and deleted it, that's their decision to make.

    I can't fathom this logic. This is like saying all blacks are banned in stories.

  15. Darth_Destructo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2001
    star 4
    Firstly, let me say that I have nothing against free expression or specifically /slash for that matter, but I feel that Joshua shouldn't have to over turn his decision... even with a poll and petition.

    Even if it were 'wrong', so what? You can't have your cake and eat it too. The forums that you all have come to know and love were built upon his foundations and whether you give him the proper kudos or not, he had to work hard for what we have here.
    What next? Another petition for new forums? Maybe we can vote him out of ownership as well if we all agreed on it?

    I can understand if a government were to make an unpopular decision and have people riot. That is completely justified and it is a right as people to do so. Who would want to live under a government whose policies we cannot accept? Heck, I'd be on the first boat out after the coup fails and people start facing the wall... That is also my right and my choice to live as I see fit.
    However, these boards are hardly government. We were not born into it by birthright, nor were we forced to be here.
    We are all here by choice, I have always believed that we were guests here, and so should obey the rules set by our host(s).
    I don't like wearing shoes in the house, but if my guest and everyone else does, I would. Of course, I could debate on the merits of taking off shoes when entering a house and I would even have scientific data back me up, but ultimately, what's the point? I'm in somebody else's house and it makes him or her comfortable to walk around with shoes on. I just don't think that it would be fair to antagonize my host and make him or her uncomfortable and accommedate my whims when I am just grateful to have been allowed to enter his or her house in the first place.
    It's true that the pro /slash posters have right to voice what they want to see here, but then, so do the anti /slash posters.
    Anti /slash is not equal to homophobia.

    It isn't easy running a place like this, especially this one. We should all try running our own place if we think that we can do better or if we don't feel comfortable using this one. Of course, it's very easy to jump on the bandwagon and bash Joshua, but who considered all the pressure that he faces on a daily basis? You won't have to deal with flack from pissed off people at the end of the day, but he will.

    Thank you for your time and have a nice day.

    Edit: Spellink and clarity

    dp4m Edit: Edited at user's request.
  16. NadaDevotchka Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2003
    star 1
    The forums that you all have come to know and love were built upon his foundations and whether you give him the proper kudos or not, he had to work hard for what we have here.


    Replace a few words here and there, and this could easily double as an argument against the abolition of slavery, at the time. So, uh, your technique in argument is not in favorable company.
  17. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 10
    Replace a few words here and there, and this could easily double as an argument against the abolition of slavery, at the time. So, uh, your technique in argument is not in favorable company.

    As a side note, one deals with the legislation of a representative government and one deals with a private organization -- hardly equal in standing.
  18. NadaDevotchka Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2003
    star 1
    So common decency and common morality are less the responsibility of a private organization?
  19. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 10
    So common decency and common morality are less the responsibility of a private organization?

    That's always been the case. Private organizations can do what they wish. It's why the Boy Scouts had lawsuit after lawsuit and won every one of them (I believe -- though I could be wrong).

    And besides -- the decision here doesn't necessarily have to do with either of those things...
  20. NadaDevotchka Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2003
    star 1
    But considering how relatively small this "private" organization is and how familiar, human, and in touch with his "constituents" the owner of it is, it would appear that he would be more responsible to maintain a certain decency and integrity in his rules that would not be expected of a larger organization.

    Besides, this is only technically an organization, it is in reality a community, and a relatively small one to be comparing itself to the Boy Scouts in terms of moral irresponsibility.
  21. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6

    The Man makes a good point, and I tend to agree with him.

  22. Bithysith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2000
    star 5
    First off, the term "slash" isn't a pretty term. I doubt it describes mere feelings for someone, no matter how hard you pretty it up.


    I think I'm going to scream just like Liz. [face_plain]
    Like she said, the term "slash" actually refers to the slash (" / ") in between character names. It has NOTHING to do with violence. Please try not to jump to uneducated conclusions.
  23. NadaDevotchka Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2003
    star 1
    If we're not allowed to jump to uneducated conclusions here, we should all boycott.
  24. wadda_u_know Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 5
    The Boy Scouts can go jump. And I can say that, because I am one. I almost wish we would lose our funding because I don't agree with what they're doing. Not all homosexuals are rapists or child molesters.

    Sorry. That's another topic.
  25. Kadue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    On the question regarding the quote you gave farraday, anything that has appeared in the books is allowable.

    As to characters themselves, allusions to preference are perfectly allowable with original creation characters, but not with established ones, you have to stick with what's known. This also includes material that has come from the EU, so with the example someone brought up regarding Madine, we've been told he had a wife, so that essentially establishes that.

    And as a correction/clarification, this decision wasn't just made by Josh, it was made by the entire core staff. To partially quote/paraphrase Josh, this isn't a statement against homosexuality, this isn't about religious preference, this is a broad generalization of what is thought to be the best for TFN and best for these boards.
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