Avoiding conflict? I don't think so!

Then I apologize, xie.

 

Fenn and Ghitsa, a lesbian couple who appear in a few short stories in the tales books, and there's a gay imperial officer in one of Crispin's Solo books.

Fenn and Ghitsa werent Lesbian. They were close, but it was never said they were lesbian. There has been one possibly gay officer and Tavira didnt seem to have any preference, IIRC.

 

Being a person who is all for fairness and equality, I think if fanfiction stories featuring hetrosexual relationships is allowed, the same thing should apply to same sex relationships. I really don't think it's fair that one is considered alright, and the other isn't. We are in, after all, the 21st century, with changing attitudes, and I think theforce.net should reflect this.

 

My personal opinion is that although same-sex relationship fics should be allowed, a close eye should be kept on them to make sure it's not people using it as an excuse to do a bashing fic.

 

The entire arguement is based on the presumption those who don't want it are vocally opposed and would leave the JC, sadly however every time it is argued those who are vocally opposed and boycott likely turn out to be silent.

That made so little sense I think I need an asprin.

That fact remains you're espousing an opinion that remains a minority opinion and I think the facts would back that up. Would thousands leave the JC if it were allowed? No, I don't think so. Will thousands leave if it is not allowed? Most definitely not.

Minorities have always tended to be the most vocal in open societies because they feel they have to to have their voices heard -- and I believe the same applies here.

Therefore I do dare.

 

Allowing fic with heterosexual relationships, yet not allowing fic with homosexual relationships is nothing short of discrimination.

I can see no valid reasoning for this rule, whatsoever.

Just for a frame of reference, I work in children's educational television and one of my jobs is screening kids' artwork for display on TV - our groundrules, and these are for 4-12-year-olds, mind you, is that sexual content is not allowed, but drawings of hand-holding, non-sexual kissing, etc, OF ANY GENDER COMBINATION are permitted. Kids can make valentines for other kids, regardless of gender, they can mention crushes on characters in our shows, regardless of gender. I think if it's okay for kids' TV, it should be okay for the JC.

 

The entire arguement is based on the presumption those who don't want it are vocally opposed and would leave the JC, sadly however every time it is argued those who are vocally opposed and boycott likely turn out to be silent.

Well, I don't write slash, so I can't comment on what the response to slash would be, but I did write something with a vaguely controversial mention in it, and got slammed with e-mails, not necessarily from people who comment publicly. (In "The Only Question," I had Leia worry that she might be raped in captivity on Bespin, mainly brought up to reject the idea, which I'd read elsewhere and found a bit unlikely plotwise. The fact that the idea--not even the word--was mentioned earned me a handful of e-mails about how I ought to be ashamed of myself for ever thinking such a thing, let alone writing it in a place where people would see it, and I was a blight on SW fandom, and so on.)

I'm guessing the same is true for any controversial issue, particularly if it involves sex or implied sex in any way. And those won't come here to the board, they'll go straight to the owners, and/or to the writers in question. Not a moral comment on this, btw, just pointing out that it's a headache and it's exceedingly annoying.

 

I believe that's why slash isn't permitted - to avoid conflict. And yes, it would happen more so than it is now.

You've already been told the decision was not made because of bias or the owners opinion on homosexuality - so stop taking it that way.

People would be bothered by slashfic. No one is bothered by heterosexual fic.

The owners own the site. Its theirs to do with as they please.

I think this is pretty clear.

[edit] You can believe otherwise, but since the decision is made this thread is pointless.

 

"You've already been told the decision was not made because of bias or the owners opinion on homosexuality - so stop taking it that way."

And we don't believe him. I've been told by former mods that Joshua Griffin has, on multiple occasions, stopped other TFN staffers from posting on the main site that have anything to potentially do with homosexuality.

But this thread isn't so much about Josh, as about the policy, and why it stinks.

 

Jim, let me get this stright, you're arguement is that because the pro homosexuality in fanfic side is more vocal they must be the minority?


And Galadrial, did any of your emailers threaten to leave the JC if you didn't edit it?

Basically it's the same as any reader response, some like it some dislike it. If their arguement is based on how homosexuality is evil and not on the literature itself, why is it more accepted then any other criticism.

 

For the record I think this rule is unfair, although within the rights as this is a private board.

There should be no rules like this towards content in fics. No one's talking slash and sexual situations here. They're talking pretending there aren't people who believe homosexuality is right.

For my part I don't agree with it, and think it's wrong. But you can not force your beliefs on others. People don't have to adhere to your opinions and esp not your religion. Religion is a choice. Why control content on art because you don't agree with it? This is not the 1950's where gay charactors were cut out of movies.

I don't think homosexuality fits star wars, but neither does 90% of the EU and most stuff in fanfics.

So don't force your beliefs on someone else, let people put whatever type of charactors in their fanfics as they want.
Banning homosexuals from a story is wrong, and if you don't know that you are practising flawed logic. Period.

"I did not post on the other thread, because I was afraid that I would put my foot in it and end up offending other people. But I believe that homosexuality is a great and grievous sin, and if TFN were to change its policy regarding slash fanfics, I would no longer feel comfortable coming here. I suppose you could call it a boycott. I think Josh is doing the right thing, for whatever reason, and I applaud his decision to stand firm and not change his policy."

That is of course your choice. But if you're not reading fanfics with homosexual charactors in it then why should it bother you? I'd think gay people on the boards would feel more uncomfortable posting here when TFN makes rules directly opposing them.
Why can you not learn to live and let live? It's a big world with diverse opinions, you're going to have to learn someday.

That's all I have to say about that.

 

While registration date doesn't seem to matter much around here anymore, I would like to take the chance to voice my opinion on this topic. Wether the administration would like to take it into account in their future policies or not is up to them. This is a privately owned, public bulletin board, we the JC members make an awful lot of money for theforce.net, and while the JC Admins have a right to cesure topics they feel are innapropriate to a 'family friendly' message board, to extend this censure to discussions of non-explicit same-sex relationships is unreasonable, and only promotes the prevalence of homophobia. What the JC admins are effectively saying to the homosexual members of this board (myself included), is "Your relationships are not only unequal to any kind of heterosexual relationship (polygamy and polyandry included, last time I checked, discussions of a character having multiple wives or husbands wasn't censured), but they are unnatural enough to deserve being edited from any fan fiction discussion. They are not appropriate to a family oriented forum. Well, I'm sorry, the admins may still lurk in the stone age, but gay activists in the United States and other countries have made a number of substantial strides in getting recognition in just these two issues, equal rights in family and marriage. We now have the right to have our unions recognized in a select few states, have same-sex job benefits at select companies, and adoption by gay couples is becoming more prevalent. To ignore these facts, just for the sake of "Avoiding Conflict" ignores the struggle that homosexuals have made, and are still making, to obtain these rights. It is not only bigoted and counterintuitive in all aspects, but is increadibly narrow sighted on the part of the administration. To think that just by censuring the fact that homosexual relationships exist will somehow prevent conflict or flaming over homosexual matters is ridiculous. If you ignore us, we do not go away, as we have proven time and time again (We're here, we're queer, get over it anyone?). I would like to think that the current policy of censure was developed with the best possible intentions of preventing flaming, but it has in fact missed that mark completely, and only relegates the gay members of this board to the status of pervets and second class citizens. It is in the best interest of free and open speech for the administration to allow discussion of same-sex relationships in fan-fictions, and deal with any conflict that may arise on a case by case basis.

Thank You.

 

although within the rights as this is a private board

Exactly my point.

 

Allowing fic with heterosexual relationships, yet not allowing fic with homosexual relationships is nothing short of discrimination.

Why? Most of the fics I know of use the characters from the movies -- and they were all 100% hetero as depicted. Is it discrimination to want it to stick to that?

EDIT: we the JC members make an awful lot of money for theforce.net

Well then -- why don't you do what farraday (I think) suggested and ACTUALLY boycott, rather than talk about it. If the money lost is significant, perhaps the policy will change.

As it stands -- it's not changing.

 

what the hell is "slash"?

 

Jim, let me get this stright, you're arguement is that because the pro homosexuality in fanfic side is more vocal they must be the minority?

No I'm saying that pro-homosexuality is a minority real life, which sometimes intrudes on our nice little fantasy board here.

And before the bigot cries start up, there is a big difference in "pro-homosexual" and "let them do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes". The fact of the matter is that no matter how many "Will and Grace"'s there are on TV, homosexuality is a vast minority. That's not bashing, that's truth, and when asked most Americans align themselves with the latter than the former.

 

And not allowing slashfic is not making homosexuals 'second-class citizens' (members, actually . . .) or anthing else. It means you can't post slashfic on this site (and there are hundreds out there for that specific purpose!).

Stop insinuating that banning slashfic is derogatory. It's not true. By banning it here (on this one site), all that is happening is that we are sticking more closely to what the movies present.

You are getting offended over nothing.

[edit] That's not bashing, that's truth, and when asked most Americans align themselves with the latter than the former.

That's very true, and no doubt Americans dominate these boards.

 

This isn't a private bulletin board, this is most DEFINATLY a public bulletin board, that happens to be privately run. If it were a private bulletin board in the strictest of sense, registration and posting rights would be limited to a select few individuals. This is a board that is open to the public, but run by a private organization, and hence dependant on public support for its continued success. As such it should take the views of its members into account when establishing guidelines of conduct.

Oh, and DP4M, in a manner of speaking, I already HAVE boycotted this place, not over this issue, but because of how assinine in general the boards have become. I havean't posted here in a long time, I only post here when someone like S_O_K specifically asks me to.

 

I would not boycott the TF.N over this policy, nor would I encourage others to do so. I believe that it is up to each individual to decide their stance on this issue, and on how best to deal with it. That said, the whole debate seems a little strange to me.

TF.N is a family website, which wants to be accessible and appropriate for everyone. That is why explicit discussion of sexuality and so forth is kept to a reasonable minimum. But as far as conflict goes, I honestly don't see what the owners are afraid of.

TF.N needs a disclaimer that says this:

"STAR WARS and related characters and situations are properties of Lucasfilm Ltd, and are used by limited permission. The opinions expressed anywhere on theforce.net and it's related pages are not those of the owners, nor of the administration, nor of Lucasfilm Ltd."

As long as TF.N does their part to make sure that nothing overtly sexual, or explicit is allowed to stay on the JC. . . their butt would be covered by the disclaimer. As it would in all situations in fanfic that could bring "conflict". (Not just homosexual relationships, but political allegory, etc etc)

 

"Why? Most of the fics I know of use the characters from the movies -- and they were all 100% hetero as depicted. Is it discrimination to want it to stick to that?"

So are AU fics not allowed?

 

While registration date doesn't seem to matter much around here anymore

Surely this is a good thing?

 

I completely agree with what Oakessteve said.

 

So, when does the boycott start?

 

I also agree with Oakssteve, but I'm not boycotting or anything, since I was never a Fan Fic person to begin with.

¤Night

 

So are AU fics not allowed?

What are you talking about?

[edit] As such it should take the views of its members into account when establishing guidelines of conduct.

Well, didn't we just say that Americans likely dominate these boards, and most Americans do not approve or do not want to know about homosexuality? So that is taking views of members into account.