Bad Choice

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by IBDR, Jan 8, 2006.

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  1. IBDR Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2005
    I guess my mind is on "What ifs", but it would have been more intelligent to handle Palpatine with both Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda. Anakin without any sort've head to his operation would not be a challenge for anyone. Obi-Wan actually defeated Anakin because of his arrogance, and stood up to him throughout the battle even with Anakin's anger fueling every strike. Obi-Wan at that point was stronger than Anakin and even handled Darth Vader in EPIV.

    Palpatine would have been the smartest target to point their two sabers at. Palpatine was the head of all the trouble. Handling him would have left no more problems down the Jedi's path.
  2. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Yoda didn't know how powerful Palpatine was. why else would he go struttin into Palps office like that. when Palps gives him a Blast of Lightning he soon gets it. Yoda went to Palpatine because ObiWan was not powerful enough to take on the Emperor.But Yoda thought he would be able to handle Palpatine like he did with Dooku. wrong. so Yoda sent Obi to take care of Anakin. if Yoda knew what he wasreally up against i'm sure they would have done it together.they were attempting to stop the Sith in one stroke. it's just another Jedi mistake. another example of Jedi overconfidence . they just keep underestimating the Sith.
  3. IBDR Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2005
    I don't think people give Yoda enough credit because at the conclusion of the battle he looses. In fact he would have to know. The blast was very little. It was definately clear tht at that point Palpatine didn't believe Yoda was a big enough threat, because if so he would have simply destroyed him when he caught him off-guard off back.

    Yoda got up from that blast with ease. However you are right that it was a mistake. The mistake however wasn't arrogance. It was just a move that wasn't very intelligent. Palpatine was clearly the master, and to expect that he would be weaker than or even equal to Count Dooku who had been defeated easily by an older Anakin left Palpatine to be a very big challenge.

    I dont think there was much over-confidence in it. Of course there was some, but I just feel that Yoda and Obi-Wan didn't put the cards out and really read how strong either of their foes would be. If they did, they would have realize that Mace Windu had fallen to Palpatine, as well as many other Jedi to his apprentice who had grown drastically with sheer anger.

    Just a bad choice.
  4. JediCouncilMaster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2005
    star 6
    DUGGY has a point and he totally explained how it all played out. Jedi overconfidence, that's all.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Palpatine could handle the two of them, even eliminating Obi-wan early leaving Yoda by himself. Only Yoda and Mace can fight Palpatine for as long as they had. No other Jedi could do it, except for Anakin.
  6. JediNdaCity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 3
    It also is a nice little tie-in with the end of the TPM in how Yoda puts it to Obi Wan and basically tells him, "Look, boy, I told you not to train this monster, but you had to have your way. Now you brought him into our world, you go take him out!"
  7. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    It also is a nice little tie-in with the end of the TPM in how Yoda puts it to Obi Wan and basically tells him, "Look, boy, I told you not to train this monster, but you had to have your way. Now you brought him into our world, you go take him out!"

    Heh, so youre saying Yoda should have gave Obi-Wan a big "I told you so" speech. :D Maybe throw that back in Obi-Wan face in ESB when Yoda didnt want to train Luke. :p


    Actually a better plan may have been to have Yoda and Obi-Wan go to face Anakin and turn him back. Then all 3 could have faced Palps.




  8. JediNdaCity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 3
    I think in his Yoda kind of way, he did give him an "I told you so speech".
    That's how Yoda is, he will never just tell you exactly how he feels, but you could imagine how pissed he must've been with Obi Wan, he just isn't the type to spill it out. He's one of those, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." types. Watch his dialogue throughout ROTS, he's very careful with his words, very thoughtful. Which makes the scene when he's talking to Anakin even more ironic because he was being as careful with his words as he could be and Anakin still took it as being cold and heartless. In ESB, he shows he's still pissed with Obi Wan by how he acts with Luke by not wanting to train him, but he never says it outright. He says it in his Yoda kind of way.
  9. egolden23 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    I think some of these interpretations could not be further off the mark. First off, Obi Wan did not have to have his way, by training Anakin, true he said he would train him with or without permission, but he HAD permission from the council. Yoda, however did not agree, but he was only one of 12 council members. Obviously, a majority agreed.

    Second where does anyone get the interpretation that Yoda is , "still pissed" with Obi Wan in ESB? His reluctance to train Luke was a test for Luke, to show that Luke still had much to learn and was not as ready as he thought he was. Not because he held a grudge against Obi Wan.

    Did you not see the last 10 minutes of Ep III where they decided that the children must be kept safe "until the time is right" Yoda was making sure Luke was ready in ESB, not "pissed" at Obi-Wan

    What movies did some of you people watch to come up with this? Oh wait, probably the same people who think that:

    Mace is Syfo-Dias
    Palpatine and Sidious are 2 different people
    Anakin would have a multi-colored saber in ep III


    Christ Almighty!!!!!



  10. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    all i know is that my post is spot on ;)
  11. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Agree's with DUGGY's agreeance with himself.:D
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Yoda was never too keen on the idea of training Anakin. Since everyone ignored what they felt from him in the beginning, is it no wonder there is almost a hint of "I told you so". But I don't really think it's that. I think it's more of "He's your responsibility, deal with him." And in TESB, Yoda isn't fond of training Luke. This is no more evident than when he actually gives his "I told you so" with "Told you, I did. Reckless is he. Now, matters are worse." speech.
  13. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    Palpatine could handle the two of them, even eliminating Obi-wan early leaving Yoda by himself.

    Exactly. Obi-Wan is easily knocked out by Dooku during a two one one fight. The Emperor could defeat Kenobi even more easily.
  14. egolden23 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Yes, Duggy yours is right on, but other posts make me think people need to watch the entire series again before posting.
  15. JediMasterGaraceDane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2005
    star 1
    I have to say these posts do surprise me but the more I look at the other posts it doesn't surprise me to much.

    I personally think after seeing the movie again last nite. I think that Palpatine and Yoda both underestimated each others power. Palpatine laid it to Yoda with a powerful force lightening blast. But as Yoda who was shocked(literally) slowly got up and gave Plapatine a little nice FORCE PUSH and Palps flew a little like Mace Windu did. Then later in the battle Yoda got a little overconfident after apparently making Sids lose his lightsaber, Sids used the force to control the Senate Platforms and threw them at Yoda which was surprising to Yoda. Yoda then surprised Sids by throwing back one of the platforms and then coming up with a swift lightsaber strike. But the Jedi arragance appears again, and Palps again surprises Yoda with force lightening. but the Sith is also arragant and is surprised by Yoda's blocking of the lightening. Thus an explosion occurs and leaves Yoda looking like the loser. But in fact he could have won as he was starting to gain the upperhand before the explosion. So I think Obi-Wan would have just gotten in the way if they both went after Sids. I mean he was lucky to take out Maul in TPM. Obi then dueled nicely in AOTC but lost to Dooku/Tyranus. Obi-Wan only won over Anakin because he taught Anakin everything thus knew basically his every move. Thus he would have gotten wasted by Palpatine in his battle with Yoda and Yoda would have to worry about him as well.

    So....in all it wasnt a mistake to have Obi-Wan go with Yoda to Palps office. Both Sids and Yoda underestimated each others powers. Im not ripping on Obi-Wan because hes a very good jedi just that the way he was acted out by GL in the screenplay shows that Obi Wan couldnt take out a Sith.
  16. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    The thing there is Palpatine is far more powerful then Obi-wan and would have got taken out of the battle a lot faster. Yoda lasted a long while against Palpatine becasue he was near of at the same power as Palpatine.

    In the end the only way to keep ever one alive was to do it the way they did it. Sure Palpatine was still alive and Anakin/Vader lived. But so did Obi-wan and Yoda.
  17. Needa_RIP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2002
    star 1
    When did Palps lose him saber during the fight with Yoda? I think I missed this one...anyway, I guess he had a backup becuase his first one got knocked out the window by Mace
  18. JediMasterGaraceDane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2005
    star 1
    Im just guessing at this because from what I heard GL cut alot form ROTS because it was too long. Anyhow The duel between Yoda and Sids was cut down because GL wanted to focus on the Anakin, Obi-Wan duel which is right. But from what I can understand Sids either loses or puts away forgood his lightsaber and goes all out with his force powers. Thats all. From what we saw in ROTJ he never uses his saber again, so im guessing he either loses it in the duel or just never uses it again. srry for not putting that in my post before.....
  19. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    And in TESB, Yoda isn't fond of training Luke. This is no more evident than when he actually gives his "I told you so" with "Told you, I did. Reckless is he. Now, matters are worse." speech.

    Yes, but I feel Yoda being a little hypocritical. After all, it was his decision to send Luke to Tatoonine. He could have taken Luke to train on Dagobah or had him brought to him earlier. Or maybe the plan wasnt hatched until 20 years later ?
  20. JediNdaCity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 3
    egolden23
    You know I wish guys like you would be a little more mature in your responses. I get really miffed at being attacked because I have an opinion on a perspective. I've been watching these films for almost thirty years. I know them inside and out and I think I have some insight into things going on plot-wise. If you don't agree with my opinion, fine, but don't jump on me like i just started watching Star Wars yesterday....ok? Can we agree to disagree?
    With that being said, you really need to study the subtleties of Yoda and how he reacts to different situations. This is why he is who he is, faults and all. At the end of ROTS, he tells the fellas that the children will be hidden until the time is right. He never says anything about training. How could he? They were just trying to survive at this point. I also think he gave up on trying to read too much into the future. To "live in the present moment" as a great Jedi once said. We know what trying to predict too many events down the road eventually got Palpatine, right? The key here is the line from ESB that Yoda begins with on Luke as he lays it all out:(now keep in mind, this is TWENTY YEARS later, not next week, not next month, but TWENTY YEARS LATER!)
    "This one a long time I have watched, all his life has he looked away to the FUTURE, to the HORIZON, never his mind on where he was, what he was doing...YOU are RECKLESS!"
    Yoda, for twenty years, has hedged his bets and watched (through the force) as this boy has grown and taken on many of the characteristics of his father, thus making him feel like, "maybe there is no hope, maybe we can't train him. Maybe all is freakin lost!" Yoda could not take training another Anakin, but it's also all he's got. Can't go much lower than he already is, which is why he reacts the way he does (with animonisity) towards Luke AND Obi Wan. It's basically a "dang, here we go again. Obi, you're killing me here, son!"
  21. JediMasterGaraceDane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2005
    star 1
  22. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    sure but that is not what people are debating here. it's why did they both not take on Palps.
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