Bad news everyone. Infinities is spreading. To Dark Forces Novels and the Handbooks

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Valiento, Jul 14, 2001.

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  1. DoomJawa Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2001
    I think it's funny to watch Valiento attack anything Dave Land does.

    He's angry cuz Land calls him VALENTINO.

    HA!
  2. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    It may be a minor point, but one well worth considering. Usually site managers, while within a company (or contarcted out), don't necessarily have much contact, or really care about the "content" of what they're designing sites for - just that it is presented well, eye-catching and informative.

    It could entirely be possible that the initial reference to Dark Forces as Infinities may have been done by mistake, by someone working on the Infinities section of Dark Horses' website.

    Just something to consider, I don't know one way or the other.
  3. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    I've always figured it was a mistake. Just like the "Rise of the Empire" icon for the handbooks is obviously a mistake.

    I think that the people working on the timeline just made the assumption that anything that was off the Timeline was "Infinities." Evidently, they weren't intimately familiar with the EU (that's what one of the guys working on the timeline said on the Dark Horse boards), so they didn't know that Dark Forces was part of continuity.

    I presume that Dark Forces wasn't originally included in the timeline proper because the Dark Forces stories take place in different time periods, and Dark Horse wanted to simply have one consolidated page for Dark Forces, rather than three separate pages. I can't say for sure, of course.
  4. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Obviosly this proves that LFL wasn't going over the timeline with a fine toothed comb.

    We as fans, have won a great battle. Now if we can let someone higher in food chain at LFL know how we as fans feel, and want tales to be both continuity and non-continuity, like the first issue said. Get them to say so in gamer mag or the TOS. Secondly to make an apology letter that says that rpg material such as that well thought out aticle in tales 4, is not infinities.

    We have seen our complaints make some differences today. Maybe we can make it go further. Let us hope.
  5. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    Rofl. This is all messed up.
  6. Bogga Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 1998
    star 4
    Woohoo! Kyle Katarn lives! Now we just have to wedge him into some future NJO books...
  7. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    "It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine..."
    -REM (although, Great Big Sea did do that song better)


    My take: This is both good and bad.

    On one hand, if a source does create obviously blatant contradictions in the timeline, and isn't well referenced, then why not call it Infinities? I think the Glove of Darth Vader and even Mysteries of the Sith fall easily into this category. Why not take them out, to keep the Timeline smooth?

    The down side to this is that this opens up a gate with some nasty demons on the other side. What happens if they decide that Zahn?s misinformation on the Clone Wars make his books unworkable? If the Mandelorians in the Marvel comics knock them completely out of the timeline? And then what happens?

    One of two things. The first, the possibility that I find the most disturbing, is that the Star Wars EU goes the way of the Star Trek books. I?ve heard some people say that they?d prefer if Star Wars books followed that type of pattern, but that would quite frankly drive me away from Star Wars. A complete lack of flow between the books and comics, where the events of one book have no effect on the other books in the series.

    The second possibility is somewhat less disturbing, but perhaps more frustrating. Down that road, nearly all of the current EU is placed into Infinities, and a new parallel EU, a ?canon? EU, is created. Perhaps it would include current EU characters and some of the same events, perhaps not. I think the more popular EU characters (Corran, Mara, Thrawn, etc) might carry over, but perhaps not. Perhaps Lucas might take a more direct hand in this potential new EU, perhaps not. In any case, for people like the majority of us who have invested a great deal of time and interest in the current EU, I think it would be extremely frustrating (Don?t believe me? Ask Genghis about what it?s like to see the EU try to reset itself).

    Anyway, just my 0.02?
  8. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    GODV, has been overly refrenced as of late, with plenty of fixes applies that really do the series justice.

    You'll see refrences to it in many resource guides, The TOS, and current gamer. Even in the upcoming Darksider Sourcebook.

    So don't expect it to be given an icon.

    As for mots, it doesn't contradict anything, and has bee refrenced into the offical timeline. It is the official story of what happened to kyle, and mara during Dark Empire.

    My only regret for the story, is that it should be given a novel, to explain what was going on in better detail. Maybe let us in on what Jan Ores was up to.

    I also wouldn't expect this one to get an icon.
  9. Bogga Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 1998
    star 4
    Regardless of how many times GoDV is referenced I will never consider it part of the core EU. I mean, there was even a base on Dagobah! And that city beneath Yavin seemed ridiculous to me. I also don't like the idea of Han and Leia being married twice. Even though this was the series that got me interested in Star Wars, I simply cannot include it in my own personal 'canon'. I'd be happy to that one labeled Infinities.

    Now don't get me wrong. GoDV had some decent ideas, like the group of Moffs and even perhaps the High Prophets. But the bad and absurd simply make it too hard to fit it into the continuity and I think even the best fixes are still far too forced and make the EU more of a large patchwork rather than a smooth concept.
  10. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Hey hey real life is history is just just as chaotic and can be looked at as one big patch work.

    hmm makes EU more realistic eh? ;) ;) :p :p
  11. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    What's core EU?

    Surely this is a subjective term, no one can set up or say as to what it is.

    In lfl's eyes, at least in Del Rey's section, anything EU is Core EU. Meaning comics, children's books, sourcebooks, novels and games.

    Nothing considered more valid than other parts, all equally part of an over expansive timeline. No way does the novels mean anything more than the other sources.

    Just like in real life, history is written by those in charge. historians are always applying continuity fixes to things they don't entirly understand. Thus we have several historians sharing altering views on same point in history. Yet ultimatly it comes down to what they say is what goes.

    So if we wanted to talk about what would be the closest we got to a core EU, it would probably be the Essential Chronology. It gives people a start and a list of places they can look for info from the history of the EU. It's written and endorsed by the only historians capable of and owning the rights to write down what happens and what doesn't, There might be variations on what's seen. Such as people seeing greedo shoot first, and those that think Han shot first. But from point of views both sides can be valid. Only one way is the outcome, but just like historians arguements exist. So the EC is this core timeline as to what the Main aspects of the EU is. There are things that fit toghether on the side, but like most history books the EC tries to give a basic and core overview of everything that happened.

    To actually ignore the historians is to be like those people that sit around not admitting things happened in history. People such as those that say the Holcaust never happened, or That the Man never landed on the moon, and it was only a hoax, etc. Well, people tend to not listen to people like that, and dismiss them.
  12. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Up, for those that didn't catch that I mentioned the fixes on the timeline.
  13. Qui-Gon-Dave Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2001
    Infinities. Aahhh. Noooo! I didn't buy the ANH infinities series. I want stuff in continuity please! And as for Tales, that I can just about live with, but it seems that of late we are getting less continuity stuff (like that which appeared in early issues) and more humour stories (nothing wrong with some laughs, but too much is just too much). Please give us stories that fit in with the established continuity, showcasing minor & major characters in new events etc.
    If Infinities spreads, I just won't buy it. And as for retroactively calling anything that won't fit Infinities, well that is just damn lazy.
  14. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I thought I'd toss in my my two cents- I'm glad Dark Forces has not been thrown off the official continuity. But I'm also glad that they came out with the Infinities line- I'm a sucker for alternate reality stories I suppose but Infinities: A New Hope has been one of the more entertaining and exciting star wars comics I've read in awhile. I usually wait for the trade paperbacks of the series before buying them (looks better on the shelf) but I've tried to get ANH infinities on an issue by issue basis (somehow I missed issue 2 so that ticks me off but I got 1 and 3..). Anywaysm that said, Infinities should be handled carefully and not widely labeled on many products. Stuff like the Vader vs Maul thats coming up, some of the humorous stuff in SW Tales, and alternate reality stuff like ANH.
  15. DesignSith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2000
    star 2
    ...And you call this bad why, exactly?

    Canon is a state of mind. Period.
  16. IronParrot Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 5
    My personal opinion is that Infinities is a good thing, and that the post-ANH AU that launched it was one of the boldest moves in the history of the "franchising" of Star Wars (a good deal of which I disapprove). I'm obviously alone here.

    I also think that:

    - there is too much reliance around here on what LFL, Dark Horse or anyone else says is "continuity" and what is not;
    - if you can work it into the timeline even if it's labeled Infinities, go ahead and do so;
    - if you don't feel like working something into the timeline even if it's officially accepted or primarily consistent with the timeline, because the work is simply ludicrous (snicker, GODV) or in your opinion just doesn't fit, go ahead and do so;
    - in the end, I look at this issue and find myself saying, "Big Effing Deal."
  17. Muke_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2000
    star 4
    Dark Forces is now considered Infinities? WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!
  18. IronParrot Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 5
    "Dark Forces is now considered Infinities? WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!"
    The Dark Forces spinoff-of-a-spinoff stories, you mean? Yeah, I agree.
  19. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    No, they aren't infinities, that was technical glitch on the online timline, fixed months ago. Please adminstrator close this thread so that others don't wonder into this thread and make the same mistake.
  20. Qui-Gon-Dave Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2001
    On the subject of infinities: Tag & Bink are Dead are classed as Infinities. I can see why, being a spoof and all, but if you look carefully at the comic, nothing ACTUALLY happens that contradicts the established events of ANH. This could be fitted into the timeline (IF you want it to.)
  21. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Oh, it contradicts names of people flying as wingman of vader(WEG had alot of detaild info about stuff like that in there sourcebooks). But some people like bending the rules.
  22. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Nah, the pilots' names dont have names...only their callsigns have been revealed, so it can still work.I think it's "outside the timeline" because the next issue is supposed to jump 3 years into the future.
  23. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    umm, it's marked with infinnites, that's why it's put in the outside the timeline section. you will probably not see it show up as history in any official star wars book because It's too funny, and everything falls into place is filled with too many coincidences. Much like skippy in exicution. But hey it's your discision for you own personal timeline, I'm not going to stop you.

    dark forces is not marked with infinnities, and is only put on outside the timeline section because it jumps through multiple timezones, but it's a serious work, and doesn't rely on a bunch of coincidences.
  24. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Hey, who are we to say a coincidence can't happen?

    Edit:
    Heck, half of the prequels rely on bizzare coincidences.
  25. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    I don't see how Dark Forces and it's sequels can possibly fit in to the continuity.

    I mean, don't you think Luke would be a little more concerned if seven Dark Jedi were hanging around, with a big Star Destroyer variation to boot? Wouldn't "The Valley of The Jedi" be more of his concern?
    Wouldn't Imperial activity in Sullustian space demand swift Republic action?
    Then we have Mysteries Of The Sith...what's with Mara Jade being trained by Kyle? When did this happen?
    Kyle Katarn is apparentally some form of Jedi master, yet he is never mentioned in any other EU...
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