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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Balance Theory : Why Han Solo is not dead, Rey has no father, and the Sequel Trilogy is not tragic

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Novahawk9, Dec 9, 2016.

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  1. Novahawk9

    Novahawk9 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2005
    The last thing the Star Wars fandom needs right now is it's own “Indoctrination Theory.” The second to last thing it needs are lies to cover-up or discourage fans who might be on to something. Especially when Mr.“Benedict-Cumberbatch-isn't-Khan” is still working on the series.

    With these things in mind, I would like to apologize simultaneously, for waiting so long before I shared this with the fandom, and also for posting it so soon, when we have more than a year before Episode VIII.

    Either way, there is a giant bantha in the room that no one is talking about, and I just can't take it anymore!!!!!

    As this is about the future of Star Wars, this is your SPECULATION. WARNING. That being said, I HAVE NO NEW INFORMATION, this is simply an alternative analysis of the Star Wars Saga. I will not be discussing ANY actual spoilers or how they play into this. This is an analysis of Episode 7 and the rest of the star wars saga along with occasional references to other materials from the Disney cannon. I will NOT be referencing ANY interviews, released materials or other spoilers about Episode VIII.

    There has been a lot of discussion and theory about TFA and all it's similarities to ANH and TPM, but the differences are just as important and those differences haven't received the attention they deserve.

    The big theories relate to Rey, who she is, and who her parent(s) are. Is she a Skywalker? Is she a Solo? Anakin reincarnated? The Force Awakens suggests all these things.

    I believe that while none of these ideas are correct, none of them are completely and totally wrong either.

    Still with me? Okay, let's activate this crazy Holocron.



    The similarities between TFA and both ANH, and TPM are unmistakable. So I won't waste your time reiterating those parallels that have already been examined elsewhere.

    In TFA Rey was the new Luke, Kylo Ren was the new Anakin, and the fandom argued about which of Poe and Finn was the new Han and which was the new Leia. Some of us called the reboot less than nice things. Mocking the Not-A-Death-Star and characters by referring to them primarily as such. “Not-Luke, Not-Anakin, Not-Leia, and Not-Han” reflected the bitter taste the end of TFA left us with for this extended commercial break between episodes. Beyond that, the saga seemed to be falling into an endless cycle of repetitive apocalypses, that were the polar opposite of the Original trilogy, and all of the reasons it endured so well.

    The trouble was, in all of our analysis of the characters, we were only half right. None of the characters in the sequel trilogy are simply the New-Luke, or even Not-Luke much less Not-Anakin. We let our first impressions dictate our perception of them, and completely missed the fascinating remix going on, and the ways in which this trilogy could bring the entire Star Wars saga full circle.

    Poe was first introduced to us at a panel as the “best pilot in the galaxy”. His backstory and the story of his parents and their role in the rebellion were given to us in the comics in the build up to VII. At first, his role in the film is strikingly similar to Leia's in ANH. They are apprehended by the bad guys while on a mission, and hide vital information in a droid. But Poe isn't able to keep all his secrets from the dark menace of the film, and his escape doesn't go as smoothly as Leia's. The audience, along with Finn, believes he's dead for much of film.

    Finn was a brand new character. A Stormtrooper who doesn't want to kill people, and while he is tempted to go his own way, Finn eventually decides to join in the fight against the bad guys. This is why we couldn't decide who was Not-Han and who was Not-Leia.

    Poe, like Han, is the Ace pilot but like Leia comes from a family who fought in and supported the rebellion.

    He has Han's role, and Leia's background.

    There were even fan versions of Han's background that guessed that since Han was raised in-part by Wookiees, and Wookies don't use last names, that 'Solo' was made-up for Han because he had no family and no last name. The same way Poe makes up a name to call FN-2187.

    Finn, like Leia, is the rebellious imperial whose trying to do right, who unknowingly has the force. Like Han SOLO, however, he comes from nowhere with no family.

    Finn has Leia's role with Han's background.

    Han and Leia have chemistry from the start, but before Ep.V audiences were sure that “the Hero always gets the girl” and Han wasn't the hero. Much the same way the fandom noticed Poe and Finn's chemistry, but many folks don't think Disney has the courage to tell their story.

    From their undeniable chemistry right down to their improbability, Poe and Finn are Han and Leia remixed.

    “Balance of the Force” is something that was introduced to us in the prequels. They tell us that the Jedi believed Anakin is the chosen one of prophecy who is destined to bring balance to the force.

    Which is odd, as there isn't anything particularly balancing about Anakin's actions as whole, even If you separate him from Vader. Anakin's choice to chuck Palpatine over the railing is not enough to erase the effect that Vader had on the galaxy. The original argument had to do with the Sith being eliminated after ROTJ? Which might be true, but I don't see how that's a “Balance” ? How does one last minute choice, instigated primarily for the well-being of his son, balance out an entire lifetime of inflicting darkness, torture, and murder?

    According to Merriam-Webster, Google, and Cambridge.

    Balance :

    To equal or equalize in weight, number, or proportion. To bring into harmony or proportion. A Counteracting weight or force.

    An even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady.

    A condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.

    Keep or put (something) in a steady position so that it does not fall.

    A state where things are of equal weight or force.

    So what did Anakin Balance? What was there to balance out? The Republic has some corruption, but all of the information about how evil and corrupt everything is, comes directly from Palpatine himself. Everyone else is looking for ways to work with or around the system, while Palpatine is actively radicalizing the galaxy against each other both in combat and on the senate floor. The Jedi order is in pretty decent shape when Anakin joins them, but they do not survive him.

    That's because Anakin is not the chosen one. By Palpatine's implication, Anakin was created by Darth Plagueis experiments with the force and as such Anakin has no father. He posses a power (Midi-chlorians) higher than Mace Windu, Yoda and ANY JEDI EVER. What does that balance? What is unequal that he brings into even distribution, proportion, weight or number?

    His dark deeds determine the rise of the empire and the Sith to unparalleled levels. Decades serving the dark side are not balanced by choosing to (attempt to) end one dude.

    Anakin does not balance the force. He is its imbalance. He is the weight that needs to be countered.

    This brings us to the first question that Kennedy asked Abrams.

    “Who is Luke Skywalker?”

    Luke Skywalker is one of two children conceived by the supposed chosen one as the republic fell apart. He is a farm boy from nowhere who rises from the ashes, refuses the advice of his antagonists and his mentors and manages to awaken in Anakin enough love and fatherhood for him to rise above Vader. He is the last of the Jedi.

    Luke Skywalker is NOT the chosen one.

    He can't be. His actions bring the galaxy and the force miraculously back from the depths of darkness, but he is the child of Anakin and Padme, not the force itself. He is strong, but not as strong as Anakin. Luke's struggles and his willingness to face them are what define his journey. Not any innate magically superior force powers.

    Rey is the actual chosen one of prophecy, conceived by the light side of the force, who will bring balance back to it. She will bring the harmony, proportion, weight and distribution of the force back into balance by being everything for the light, that Anakin was the darkness.

    Luke is not Rey's father because Rey has no father. Rey is a child of the force, who is the only person as strong with the Force as Anakin, who can counterbalance his darkness, and bring the force itself back into balance.

    Rey is a scavenger on the rough edge of a planet long forgotten by the galactic powers. Anakin, Rey, and Luke all come from lonely beaten down desert planets in the middle of nowhere. They get swept up in an adventure, wear similar clothing and have similar gifts.

    They don't have the same gifts. The first time Luke uses the force to call his lightsaber to him he struggles and nearly fails. In the ice cave on Hoth he was unopposed, and just barely calls the lightsaber to his hand. When Luke enters Jabba's palace to help rescue Han, he only succeeds briefly in mind-tricking one of Jabba's minions. Both of these incidents occur after Luke has had some rudimentary training with Obi-wan, and by RotJ he's studied under Yoda as well. He also had time to practice.

    Rey pulls off each of those feats without meeting any master of the force, ever, and having not practiced any of it, at all. Much the same was Anakin flies a Pod racer when no other Human can, and destroys the droid control ship, nearly by accident. Rey mind tricks a storm-trooper, and rips Luke's lightsaber away from Kylo's grasp.

    Rey and Anakin's similarities are so frequent, that there is an entire theory about Rey being Anakin reincarnated. While that would explain the similarities in her case, it doesn't make sense with the rest of the story. She has a completely different role to play in the Saga then Anakin did. The novelization paints a slightly different picture, but in the text it appears that Rey has the opportunity to kill Kylo Ren, and decides not to, even while believing that he had killed Han Solo.

    Rey has Luke's role, with Anakin's background. She works for food in what's little more than a campsite. She is not a slave, but only just barely. She has unparalleled gifts comparable only to Anakin's. She is taken away from her home, not by choice, but by necessity. Luke's aunt and uncle were killed. Rey was chased and kidnapped. At the climax of the film, she is able to succeed where no one else could have. Just like both Anakin and Luke.


    While Luke is the hero of Star Wars, he fails just as often as he succeeds in his adventure. That is a big part of why his story is so compelling because our own failures can be reflected in his, especially in a genre and at a time that could be so hyper-masculine.

    This isn't to say that Rey isn't very important to Luke. He is a Jedi Master, he might have seen visions of her long before the events of TFA, and he is the only person left to teach her. While he isn't her father that doesn't mean he had no awareness of her before she strolls onto his island. It is possible that Luke might have even had something to do with her conception in the force, like Plagueis having a part in Anakin's creation. Anakin Skywalker falls to the darkness, but he does attempt to fight it. He is not purely a creature of the dark. He fathered Luke Skywalker, who may very well have played a nontraditional role in creating (or maybe just teaching) Rey, to save the galaxy.

    Ben Solo/Kylo Ren (Ben/Ren)'s actions are always read in the light of the assumptions of his fate. So for the sake of considering his redemption, I'm going to compare him to both Anakin and Luke.

    Ben/Ren's hair is styled reminiscent of RotS Anakin, and he struggles with a kind of temptation, but there isn't much more they have in common. I mean he's strong in the force but he's been studying with Luke and is Leia's son, so it would be surprising if he wasn't.

    But the difference is striking. While Ben/Ren loses his temper he takes his lightsaber to a large computer console, not storm-troopers, not minions or incompetent co-workers, not even droids. While Anakin chops up younglings and force chokes those he deems responsible, Ben/Ren lashes out at inanimate objects.

    That isn't to say his intentions are any different. He (attempts to) kill(s) Han and he attempts to get answers out of Rey's head by force. He fights her and Finn. But his only true success of the entire movie is getting the location of the map from Poe. Anakin succeeds in nearly everything he attempts to do. The results of his actions often don't play out like he had planned, but the rarely fails to do something he has set his mind too.

    This is because Ben Solo is not the next Anakin. He is the anti-Luke.

    We don't know what happened at the temple yet, but it isn't a coincidence that both Ben and Luke were living with their Uncles when things started to go crazy. They both fail their way through their lessons, and that's part of what makes Luke Skywalker such a great character, and why folks are drawn to Kylo despite him being evil, (as far as we know...).

    Ben/Ren has Anakin's role. This is why they took the time to tell us he was pulled (instead of tempted) by the light. He will (eventually probably attempt to) rise to that challenge. He has Luke's background, living with his Uncle before the attack on the temple, but also including the part where he starts the second movie falsely believing his father is dead.





    Because Han Solo LIVES!

    The scene gets compared to Luke's fall in Bespin. The fall in V is something of a fall from grace at the realization that Luke had been lied too, and that Vader was once Anakin. But the scene in VII between father and son has far more in common with the ending of the trench run in IV.

    At that time Vader doesn't know who Luke is, and Luke doesn't know who Vader once was.
    Vader senses Luke's force signature but decides to destroy him anyway.
    Han sweeps in at the last minute and blowing up Vader's wing-minions and giving Luke the time to make the shot that destroyed the Death Star.
    Vader's Tie fighter is blown off course, and the 'Dark Father' tumbles away into the Darkness, not to be seen or mentioned again until the next film.
    Vader was not dead, but we don't know that until ESB.


    Han has never seen his son as an adult, but they each know exactly who each other is.
    Han recognizes his son, and what he's become, but decides to try and save him anyway.
    Even after Han has been stabbed by his Son, he reaches out, without anger, to try and get through to him.
    Han falls into a bright light, and exactly like the opposite father figure before him, is not seen again in this film.
    Han Solo is not dead, but we won't KNOW that until VIII.


    This is foreshadowed by Poe's fate in TFA itself. Poe, who mirrors Han role in this saga, disappears and is believed to be dead by Finn, Rey, and BB-8 for a significant portion of the story, but suddenly turns up alive back at the Resistance base.

    This is also consistent with the rest of the mythos, when one person falls down into an infinite abyss, they are never destroyed. They are transformed. Luke falls in Cloud City after his confrontation with Vader and the realization that he cannot avenge his father by killing Vader. Darth Maul is believed dead for some time but used the force to grab an air vent and managed to make it to a trash container which carried him off to some junkyard world. Who else? Palpatine, but I'll come back to that. Han is not dead, we just don't know what realization or transformation might be in store for him.

    It's also telling that after spending YEARS looking for her twin, Leia sends Rey to find him instead. It's almost as if she has something more important to do... But I said I wouldn't talk about spoilers, so I. Must. Stop. My. SPECULATION. There.

    It stood out to me the strange way J.J. talked about that scene and fan's reactions to it. We all knew that there had been several writers, and drafts, so it wasn't really news that Han & Leia were reunited at the end of at least one of the drafts. But it's weird how this was pitched to make it seem like this was a last-second plot twist, instead of a very well planned curve ball. Abrams said that it was changed because the movie needed “Guts,” Because blowing up an entire star system with the Not-A-Death-Star doesn't have consequences if we don't see our characters deal with it. Which is why that destruction was dealt with so lightly. It's the worst thing to happen, in pretty much any movie ever, but if they'd given us the details and all the deaths, we would have questioned Han's “death” because the movie was just too depressing.

    It was too depressing anyways.

    Seriously, look at that scene again. Those are some of the best (and most heartbreaking) shots in the entire movie. The music fits perfectly. The cinematography is great. It was meticulously planned, not thrown together at the last second.

    I would be surprised if that draft where Han and Leia were reunited at the end of VII was anything more recent than the one Lucas wrote.

    The fact that there was no memorial or anything at the end of the movie says a great deal. If there was going to be a memorial that was the place to do it. If he was dead, there would have been a memorial at the end of VII, before Rey (and Leia likely) took off to go find Luke, but we wouldn't see Luke until VIII. It's a heartbreaking ending (and I'd have been done with Star wars entirely) but it would have been SO MUCH BETTER than the mess that we got. The only reason to deny the audience that kind of emotional resolution is to increase the tension and the drama, and that only really works if the character is not dead.

    For heaven's sake, Qui-gon got last words and a memorial after only one film.

    JJ uses his “mystery boxes” too often, but he is not that inept.

    Han Solo always comes back. To the battle of Yavin, when he had already decided to leave, but Luke was facing Vader, nearly alone. To the control room when he had clearance to leave, but Leia was staying behind, coordinating the evacuation. To the rebellion after his death-mark had been taken care of. Even in TFA, after he and Leia are reunited, he comes back to the fight, with the intention to save his son.

    With his heroic vulnerability in TFA Han Solo truly becomes the complete opposite of Darth Vader. He saves Luke when Vader tries to kill him. He builds a life with Leia, the person Vader tried to destroy. He (and Leia) refuse to resign their son to a life of the Darkside, even after Kylo has tried to kill him. All without the use of the force.

    Leia Organa is the embodiment of the refusal to submit to tragedy.

    The destruction of Alderaan is an immeasurable loss, left mostly to the space between the lines. This was because Luke is the Hero of ANH, and his story was prioritized over Leia's. But Leia survived, in an era of Women-in-refrigerators and the destruction of Alderaan became more meaningful to some Star Wars fans than Lucas could ever have imagined.

    How many other women in fiction are allowed to survive that kind of tragedy? Leia Organa stands as one of the only examples to girls, young women, and those of any age, who can tell them that their tragedies are not a death sentence. It's a pretty common challenge for the men who are cast as hero's to overcome, but how many women in fiction can you name who actually get to survive their tragedy? Not even Padme is allowed to keep living immediately beyond hers.

    Leia is not a tragic line in someone else's story. She is not the background character that allows the real hero's to learn about the war and their cause. Leia is the survivor of horrors we cannot imagine, and she allows each of us to bring our own losses into our meaning of the story.

    In that sense, she is many of the things Padme was not allowed to be. Leia was a senator and has a family. She started the Resistance. She is the only reason that the Not-a-Death-Star wasn't the beginning of the second Empire. While Padme had some great lines about the destruction of the republic, she wasn't allowed to accomplish anything with them. Leia isn't given many lines in TFA, but her actions in it, and leading up to those events, changed everything.

    Luke Skywalker is more of a puzzle. He is barely in TFA. Which is weird, considering it is Star Wars. That doesn't mean there isn't a good reason. The events that build up to TFA have an interesting effect with the way the roles of the Skywalker twins are somewhat switched. When the temple is attacked, Luke's world is destroyed, and this time Leia is the one advocating redemption, rather than destruction.

    Finn and Rey are the orphaned “siblings” of this trilogy. Neither knows who their parents were, or how they got to their roles in life. Their intimacy mirrors Leia and Luke more than Han and Leia. When we have so little to work with it is easy to jump to the wrong conclusion. But, the moment when Rey kisses Finn's forehead is shot very similarly to the moment at the end of ESB when Leia kisses Luke's forehead. They all have the force. Finn and Rey are “siblings” not because they share the same parents, but because they share the same lack of parents. They grew up with that same struggle.

    Rey and Ben/Ren is a controversial topic that is not without its problems. First off I'd like to clarify that I'm not talking about Kylo Ren and Rey being a couple. The scene in the interrogation room can have all the symbolic architecture in the world, it is f###ed up, and it is meant to be. Abrams talked about how screwed-up the interrogation scene in IV is. Vader unknowingly tortures his own daughter. But this is J.J. Abrams, who's primary trick is taking the source material and dialing up to 12, or 13. This scene is supposed to be worse. It is COMPLETELY screwed up if Kylo Ren interrogates the person who Ben Solo relinquishes the dark side for. The same person Ben Solo might just fall in love with. Because IF that is the direction this story is heading, it needs to be Ben Solo and not Kylo Ren.

    That Kylo Ren interrogates Rey when he's already supposed to be the bad guy doesn't really establish much. Especially since Rey stands up to him and turns his own intentions against him. We've already seen Kylo interrogate Poe. We know the kind of power he has, but Rey is stronger. Rey doesn't let him interrogate her. He attempts to do and fails spectacularly.

    This does not make his actions any less evil, but it limits their consequences. It is EASY to want him dead, and think of him as evil and irredeemable when we think he killed his father (who happened to be one of everyone's favorite characters). TFA and Abrams did their best to paint him unquestionably as a bad guy. He has no respect for Hux, the super-laser of the Not-A-Death-Star, and had nothing to do with its activation, but he gets more blame from the fandom for that event, then Vader is often given for the Death Star and Alderaan. Despite the fact that the scene with Ben/Ren's reaction to the destruction of his Home-planet (according to Bloodline) was apparently shot without the mask. Abrams thought that was too telling, and prefers his movies to be puzzles, rather than stories. So they CG-ed in the mask to cover Ben/Ren's at least somewhat horrified expression.

    The first fight between Rey and Ren is the polar opposite of the first fight between Vader and Obi-wan. From the confrontation itself to the color pallet, and most importantly the characters reactions to each other in the conflicts conclusion. Anakin's battle is surrounded in fire and lava, the red and yellow colors of the Sith dominate the landscape and Anakin's reaction to everyone. He force-chokes Padme without even giving her the time to talk, and curses Obi-wan declaring his hate for his former master when Anakin is defeated by him. Rey and Kylo's battle takes place in a snow covered forest, and the colors that fill the scenes are those of the Jedi, blue and green. Kylo is not devoid of anger, but his reaction to his defeat is not composed of hate, or anger, or even fear. Might that moment be our first real glimpse at Ben Solo?

    It also seemed odd to me, how we are handed second-hand information about his fall to the dark side. Both Han and Leia give pretty much the same story, but neither one of them were there when it happened. They also don't seem to have heard from Luke at all? It seems strange that the producers would give us so little information if they wanted Kylo to be the Big Bad of this trilogy. Is that really how it happened? Why does Kylo call Ben weak, and like his father? What could Ben have done that would remind the audience of Han Solo? And how did that become such a bad thing?

    They've told us that Snoke forbids the use of Ben Solo's name, and gave him the new moniker. That makes me wonder if the name “Ren” (as in Knights of Ren) functions for Snoke's followers like Darth was the title for the Sith? If that's the case, are they actually Kylo Ren's knights? Or did the Knights of Ren exist before Kylo? Has any of this been directly addressed? Or are we still working with assumptions that might intentionally be misleading?

    For example, when Palpatine is thrown over the railing by Vader, the force lightning & energy are seen echoing down into the abyss. He is already a scarred monster who lost all of his humanity before the OT even started. Does that sound similar to Snoke? Snoke even appears to Hux and Ren the same way the Emperor appeared to Vader. The descriptions of Snoke's role in the rise of the Empire create an arbitrary distance between Snoke and those events which might be convincing if they weren't still true for Palpatine, and exactly how Palpatine would have describe them in III. (Granted, he is not 7 ft tall, but I bet that Hologram is.)

    We only know what they want us to know.

    Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie. That's likely the reason for all the talk from the production team about how dark and “like empire” VII will be. Empire Strikes Back isn't a great movie because it's dark. It's an amazing movie because it is defiant of its own darkness.

    When Empire starts: Luke wants to face Vader and avenge Obi-wan and Anakin, Han needs to leave the rebellion and take care of his bounty, and Leia appears ready to be a martyr for her cause and join her people. It's a character driven story, and those characters are given the agency to affect the reasons their stories change.

    Luke Skywalker doesn't encounter a storm in hyperspace and get blown off course crash landing on to Dagobah because the plot needed him to get there. He receives a calling, and he decides to abandon his squadron and go finish his training. He also chooses to face Vader before he is ready, and fall into the abyss rather than join Vader. Those events mean something because he was given the power and agency to make them happen.

    Han spends a lot of time talking about leaving, but when he gets clearance to do so and hears that Leia is still coordinating the evacuation in the command center, he comes back to make sure she escapes.

    Leia has lost everything with the destruction of Alderaan. Friends, family, goals, and any plans she might have had. It would be easy to let her drive to end the empire be the only thing she cared about or focused on. We see her walk that line several times in the comics and it's alluded to in the movies, where she has to choose between helping her friends, and potentially ending Vader.

    By the end of V Luke has confronted Vader but cannot avenge his father. Leia has lost Han but has decided to stop hiding or denying her affection for him. Han Solo has left and returned to Jabba but not of his own volition. Vader even confronts his son with the truth but no one gets the results or rewards they might have hoped for.

    Luke doesn't choose to surrender to Vader. Han doesn't choose to leave. Leia doesn't choose to die fighting. Even when confronted with their worst fears or nightmares, each of our heroes chooses to try again tomorrow.

    The last time before VII we saw our heroes was in Return of the Jedi, (but apparently a movie living up to its name is too much to ask for). VI, and it's ending weren't pretending to solve all the galaxy problems at once. That ending wasn't about things being happily ever after, but better than they had been. Happy endings have nothing to do with our delusions of grandeur, and childish fantasy. They are just as symbolic as the rest of our story. Han, Luke, and Leia's trials, tragedies and failures are reflective of our own, just like their success. They are about our own ability to affect change in our own world, in our own lives. Sometimes those plans don't work don't work like we had in mind, but that doesn't mean we give up and decide to be dead to the world. Happy endings work because they reflect the continual search for a better tomorrow. They represent each of our little victories, and the possibility of victories in our futures.

    Because stories have to end eventually, and when we feel we have gained something from them (Representation. Understanding. Self-reflection. Comradery. Community.) then we keep coming back. When a friend hasn't seen Star Wars, we don't just loan then the DVD and tell them they should watch it. We make it an event, and invite them over for movie night, giving us the chance to experience the saga all over again. Because we want to see it again.

    When TFA started, our returning hero's were in familiar places. Luke is hidden on some tiny planet off the beaten path. Leia is leading a movement to fight the remnants that want to reform the empire. Han is flying around the galaxy getting into trouble and failing to keep his head down. These aren't just familiar places to start our story that erase or ignore the earlier adventures so we can watch it all over again. This is the beginning of a new story that fits with the one we know. There couldn't be any doubt about Han Solo eventually returning to help Leia, without him being completely out of character. So they did something different. Leia Organa would not sit back and accept the rise of the First Order, ever. So she gets to accomplish what Padme was denied. (I still don't like the “General” title, but I'm willing to overlook it, for now.) Luke Skywalker has not had a chance to explain or speak for himself. I'm not particularly keen on trusting a production team that wants me to think they killed Han Solo, but I trust Luke enough that I'm going to give him that chance.

    It comes down to this. Star Wars COULD do a ridiculous number of things. However, this makes sense. This isn't awful. This isn't a tragedy. Every other possibility is at least a little bit of both of those things.

    TLDR & Summary

    These ideas would truly bring the Star Wars Saga full circle. Incorporating the tragic prequels and the heroic original trilogy into a complete story, for both the new and the old characters.

    Rey is not the next Luke, she is the Anti-Anakin. She has Anakin's background as a chosen one, and Luke's role as the last hope (and potentially the redeemer.)

    Ben Solo/Kylo Ren is not the new Anakin, he is the Anti-Luke. He has Luke's background, living with his uncle and Anakin's role to (fall to his temptation/rise to the lights calling.)

    Poe and Finn really should be a couple. They are Han and Leia remixed. Which is why we couldn't decide who was Not-Han and who was Not-Leia. Each of them is partially both, because they are meant for each other.

    Han Solo is not dead, but it's important for Ben Solo/Kylo Ren to think that he has killed his father at this point in the story.

    Is Rey a Skywalker? Not biologically, but philosophically? Definitely and Luke may have played a role in her creation the same way Darth Pelagius was responsible for Anakin.
    “Rey Skywalker” was exactly what I was afraid of when I left the theater after TFA. It would mean that Luke abandoned Rey on Jakku, or allows her to be hidden there, on her own, with no family and no protection. There seems to be a large gap in time between when Rey ends up on Jakku, and the destruction of the Jedi temple. That doesn't make sense, and neither do her abilities. Luke is a Jedi, and he is ethically and emotionally stronger than either Anakin or Vader, but he is not stronger in the force than his father, so why would she be?

    Is Rey a Solo? No, but either philosophically or romantically later? Probably.
    When comes down to it, "Rey Solo" just makes things worse for Han and Leia, and requires memories being erased simply for shock value. There is no discussion of any additional Solo children anywhere in the movie, or in Bloodline. That was kind of the point of Bloodline, a taste of the world they'd built before everything got turned upside down all over again. Leia has had enough tragic events in her life, we don't need to add any more.
    If they're doing a redemption arc, Rey and Ben will likely have a romance that will somehow be similar to or mirror Padme and Anakin's.
    If there is no romance, the Solos will become the parents she never had.
    Rey is either going to symbolically take Ben's place, or help save him, maybe both.

    Is Rey Anakin reincarnated? No, she is the antithesis of Anakin. Which is why their abilities and backgrounds mirror each other. Their roles, however, are very different.
    The reincarnation concept exists nowhere in the Star Wars mythos. It's one thing to have force ghosts, it's another thing entirely for some super special people to get to live all over again because they were CHOSEN. This notion makes sense if you only consider her powers and ignore his morals. Anakin saw the light in the end, but he is the second to last person the force would want to bring back. He brings the galaxy into darkness. There is plenty of doubt in the Prequel trilogy, whether or not Anakin is the chosen one, and it's never stated that he is the only possible chosen one.

    Rey is also not a Kenobi. Ben lived and died by the Jedi code. That's why his relationships with both Anakin and Luke have so much meaning. Luke and Anakin both struggle with the code, but Obi-wan embraces it. It's also way too much of a ret-con, and her abilities don't make sense for anyone other than a chosen one.

    I would finally like to note that this might also be why they are looking closely at the non-saga films like Rogue One. If this theory is even a little bit correct the entire saga could come full circle, and IX will be a natural place to end the Star Wars Saga movies.

    At least for now.

    Either way, Thank you for your time. Please share what you think, add to the conversation, or share it elsewhere (as long as it is credited). I am going to ask that Spoilers be withheld from this conversation at this point, as this is speculation not spoilers.
    Part 2, (The One With All The Spoilers) will be headed your way in the new year.
    Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and Happy Life Day.

    And “Never Tell me the Odds.”
    -Novahawk9
     
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  2. N7Jedi

    N7Jedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2016
  3. Sum-Wan

    Sum-Wan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Anybody got this in the audiobook version?
     
  4. Novahawk9

    Novahawk9 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Quoted from the bottom from the post
     
  5. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Too long.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  6. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    You mean to tell me that there's no limit of how much we can put in one post.


    Come on mods.



    Also, in. Before. The. Lock
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  7. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2014
    [​IMG]

    No offense to OP, but I've waited too long to post this:
     
  8. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
  9. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Apparently engaging in Hegelian dialectic.
     
  10. One Quarter Portion

    One Quarter Portion Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2016
    "Part 2 will be headed your way in the new year."


    ...oh boy
     
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  11. Darphus_Mon

    Darphus_Mon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2003
    I couldn't pull the trigger on the Pinto/Animal House meme. My apologies to the OP.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  12. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Strooth!
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  13. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2014
  14. Dory Vader

    Dory Vader Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Here's a brief summary for you all.

    Nope. Not gonna happen

    You're welcome.
     
  15. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2016
    Dear, some poor poster went through a hell of lot of effort to post that and you lot take the micky, you lot are meanies.

    *Although it was far too long for me to read.........
     
  16. Darth_Voider

    Darth_Voider Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2015
    Sigh... In before the lock.
     
  17. What Girl

    What Girl Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016

    What?
     
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  18. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    That's a very appropriate reply from a What Girl.
     
    Darth Smurf, Dra--- and What Girl like this.
  19. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
  20. Novahawk9

    Novahawk9 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Ha, I see nothing has changed despite the decade.
    It's great that you guys have such eloquent and meaning counter arguments.

    As entertaining as the memes are, I will let this drop and let you go back to throwing witty gifs at each other, all you have to do if you want it gone is to stop posting.

    ^That^ reaction is even more spam that my post, which is frankly an accomplishment.
    I originally posted this on another fandom related site and folks liked it, and it started a few discussions. Apparently you guys are too cool for that these days.

    Don't worry, all you have to do is stop spamming, and it'll drop out of your special forum.

    (And maybe come back to haunt this forum if I'm not completely wrong.)
     
  21. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    All I ask is don't post so much in one post.
     
  22. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    I let this be for a bit, but apparently it's not going anywhere productive. Locking.
     
    thejeditraitor likes this.
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