Balance to the Force? (Here's what I think)

stop with the 2 of each you are all wrong

 

Hi, I'm new. ~waves to everyone~

I think both opinions here are equally valid. But I still follow what my belief.

To me, balance was achieved by Anakin during the 3rd episode. I was thinking about balance as he destroyed the Jedi at the Temple. By eliminating most of the Jedi, the Force became balanced.

Imagine a scale, if you will, with a bowl hanging from each side. It's a shiny gold one. But it's huge, because you have to fit a lot of people into it. Place all of the Jedi into one side of the scale, and the Sith on the other. The Sith side would be so light that the occupants almost fall out. That's not very nice of the Jedi.

But Anakin, he evened the scales. Didn't he? Even those who believe Dark Side=imbalance should agree with that fact, if they imagine the whole scale deal.

I see that some have already given this same opinion. Bravo! But it seems like we are the minority. The majority's theory is still one of great plausability, and might be the true one. But I will stick to what I believe. Everyone should stick to what they believe. We'll never have one sure answer, anyway.

Jedi Chayl

 

NO NO NO!!!!

SHeesh how many times do i have to say this!!

Balance does NOT mean #jedi = #sith

Balance to the force means NO SITH!!

GL has stated this, it is fact.

END OF STORY

 

what solo said THE END.

 

balance is not 2 of each its said in ROTS by mace and right here by george lucas

PROOF: http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/f20050518/indexp9.html

must i keep posting this link

 

Although it seems in the movies that the Balance in the Force is achieved by the destruction of the Sith, I've always seen a parallel to the Freudian theories of the Id and the Superego.
The Id, being the instincts of sexuality, aggression, desire, power is represented by the Sith.
The SuperEgo, the higher self, morality, norms, is represented by the Jedi.
I believe that Freud established that to leaning too far to either side causes mental disorders / deviant behavior, and that one must achieve a balance between both to lead a healthy and happy existance.
I see Luke as incorporating the positive aspects of both sides of the force.
He is often reprimanded the the OT as being too much like his father by Yoda, his Uncle, Obi-Wan. And he develops attachments to his friends and sister. Jedi do not like attachments...
ROTS shows how the Jedi (SuperEgo) failed, and ROTJ shows how the Sith (Id) failed, and Luke shows how a thoughtful use of his instincts, his faith and attachments to his friends, and his beliefs of a Jedi, ultimately save him and his father. I also believe that Qui-Gon Jinn had this balance as well - earning him the label of having "unruly views".

 

I like that, Jedi_Sith_Balance, GL notwithstanding. Or the fact that I don't think much of Freud. GL keeps changing his mind so often in any case that it's easier to pick the bits that fit your pet theory than to try and embrace all of it.

It's not that 2 Jedi + 2 Sith = balance. It's destruction of the Old Jedi Order and the destruction of the Sith that finally brings balance.

 

Arwen_Sith, I certainly agree that within the framework of the movie, the balance to the force is restored through the complete annihilation of the Sith, and that when Vader kills the Emperor while mortally injuring himself, he essentially kills the Master and Apprentice at the same time (there can be only two).
My comments really apply to my own understanding of the dark and light side of our own natures (and how they relate to the figures of the Sith and Jedi). If we repress, instead of control, and not try to at least understand our own dark sides, it usually comes around to hurt us. Remember that the Jedi were unable to see or feel the presence of the Sith before the confrontation with Darth Maul. Maybe if they at least studied how the dark side works (not engage in it obviously), then they could have felt the existence of the Sith before it was too late. I'm also not a Freud fan, but you've got to give him credit for pioneering a greater understanding of ourselves, while recognizing that he definitely had his own "issues".

 

i really like the freudian comparison. i was thinking something sort of like that before; that the jedi are corrupt and anakin balances the force by destroying the corrupt and institutionalized jedi order except for two real free thinkers (yoda and obi-wan) who survived so that they could teach luke the ways of the force. luke could then remind vader that he was once anakin skywalker and allow him to fulfill the prophecy. this in the end leaves luke as the last jedi influenced by the wisest of jedi as spirit guides to start a new and hopefully un-corrupt jedi order. (honestly i thought of that before i knew about lukes new jedi order and the massassi temple and all that in the EU.)

however here is my support for the destroying the sith thing.

everything in nature that is not intelligent can be considered good. plants, animals, the planets and their courses; they are all naturally occuring, evolved to live in harmony, they do not have greed. this is why 2 jedi 2 sith can not be balance. "it surrounds us, it penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together." the force exists in everything, therefore balancing the intelligent beings who use the force in no way balances the force. therefore it only makes sense to say that destroying the evil would balance the force so everything in nature remains in harmony with the force which "binds" it all together.

if star wars were real life, than i would say that to balance the force would be to have no jedi or sith. everything else lives in harmony with the force, which controls things with its own will. therefore having select beings who can manipulate it throws off the balance. however, we have to remember that star wars is essentially a story of good vs. evil and must be treated as such. the jedi are, in purpose, good. the sith are evil. that is what is so great about literature as opposed to real life, we can create someone whose purpose is to be evil. so the jedi are part of the universe which is in harmony and the sith are a huge-ass boil on the face of good. destroying them, therefore brings everything into balance.

 

While reading the post of GarthSidious, and the concept of harmony in nature, I don't know why I suddenly thought of one of those Discovery Channel documentaries that showed how a male lion killed the young cubs of the lioness he was interested in mating with, because according to the narrator, they would pose a threat to him, and would make the lioness go in heat again if she didn't have any cubs to look after. I know it's not exactly tied in, but it does remind me of how Anakin slaughters the "younglings" (the young cubs), because ultimately they would pose a threat to him and the Emperor.

Although I agree that the cycle of nature is harmonious, there is definitely a "dark side" to most wild animals, even within their own species (as with the example of the lion killing the cubs).

 

Thats it. The Jedi counsel was currupt and headed down. Anakin killed all that were not killed by the troopers, he then killed the sith, therefor creating balance.

If the Jedi Counsel had survived and Sidious had been destroyed, things would have been bad. it would have been a Star Wars version of the Roman Empire. The Jedi never considered themselves to be off-setting the balance, and neither did Anakin as a Jedi. He created balance without even knowing it.

 

Although I agree that the cycle of nature is harmonious, there is definitely a "dark side" to most wild animals, even within their own species (as with the example of the lion killing the cubs).

i disagree with calling these "dark sides" in nature because it is still all part of that cycle. everything in nature has evolved to fit together with the food chain and all that... in addition it is all based on instinct the animals are just doing what they do naturally. the difference is that intelligent life has greed and hate not to mention a power which makes them able to make very large and unfortunate mistakes (like global warming) . animals fight but they dont have wars, they don't destroy the rainforest, they don't cause global warming. intelligent life is a disruption in a harmonious ecosystem.

i often have difficulty forming opinions because there are so many ways to look at things. i prefer to look at star wars as a peice of literature with archetypes and all, and the jedi have the purpose of being good, while the sith are meant to be evil.

 

It may be interesting to point out that the greatest disturbance in the force that is shown in the movies is the destruction of Alderaan by the Death Star - Grand Moff Tarkin being the mastermind of the project. This huge disturbance in the force is created not by the Sith or Jedi, but by man and technology.

 

It may be interesting to point out that the greatest disturbance in the force that is shown in the movies is the destruction of Alderaan by the Death Star - Grand Moff Tarkin being the mastermind of the project. This huge disturbance in the force is created not by the Sith or Jedi, but by man and technology.

thank you that fits well with my theory that there is more to balance in the force than just the balance of force-users. now that i think about it though, that would mean balancing the force would mean more than just destroying the sith because the sith are not the only "evil" intelligent beings in the galaxy. so maybe destroying the death star was part of balancing the force. but that would kill a lot of people who are not necessarily evil. it seems that there would be no way to balance the force.
i have no answer to these questions and it is bothering me

 

The more I think about it, the more I feel that the Empire itself played a huge role in the disturbance of the force. The Jedi and Sith use and manipulate the force (defying gravity, the "Mind Tricks", moving objects around etc.) Sure the lightning that the Sith use is destructive, but it only really destroys one person, as opposed to the Death Star that destroyed an entire planet. There was no use of the force in the planning, design, creation and use of the Death Star. No matter how powerful a Sith may become, I doubt a Sith could destroy an entire planet - only man and technology can do that. And as I said earlier, the greatest disturbance in the force was as a result of the Death Star.

So maybe the formula is:
Empire (Death Star/Stormtroopers) + Sith (Enforcers/Punishers) = Disturbance in the force.
Republic (Democracy) + Jedi (In their true role as Peacekeepers) = Balance in the force.

Who Knows!!!

 

George Lucas knows, he said Anakin Fullfilled the Prophecy when he destroyed the Sith. End of Story, whether the force needed balance after that and Luke did something to balance it after Anakins death, does not apply to the same prophecy. The Death Star did not unbalance the force. Sith who manipulate the force for there own desires did. The Jedi listen to the "will of the force" They do the forces bidding, not the other way round.

Side note: It has been postulated that Mace was too close to the dark side while fighting Sidious and that is why he made the wrong decision to kill him in front of Anakin. So when Jedi do stupid things they ARE unbalancing the force just like the Sith...

drk

 

Now, i do not want to get things started agian, and I'm not saying that this is absolute fact, but i have something to say, and im sayiong it. In the books, the new jedi order, a character named verjir (I spelt it wrong, but you get teh picture) States there is no light and dark side. As a matter of fact, that is hinted in the movies. I believe palpatine says that it is a matter of point of view in episode III and Obi-wan, on degobah in the return of the jedi, says that, "Often the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view." Now, with that said, let's all just pretend that there is actually no light or dark side. Therefore how could they be balanced by people in each order? All it is is people using the same thing in different ways. Now, I think of balance plain and simple, the light and dark side, if you will, are not fighting. Think about it, what did Anakin do when he killed the emporer? it stopped the jedi and sith from fighting for a while. And, honestly, no matter if he was the chosen one or not, there will always be people to join the dark side so it really doesn't matter. All he did was brought some piece for, like, ten years or so. Then brakis and his shadow acadamy turned up, and before that kyp and exar kun..... but enough of that.

 

At face value I agree this discussion mainly focuses on the Jedi/Sith balance, where most people consider balance to be the absence of the Sith.

However, is it too far off base to consider that the political struggle between the Empire and the Rebellion mirrors the struggle between Sith and Jedi, and between evil and good.

I think Lucas has pointed out that one of the themes of the PT is how a democracy willingly dissolves itself to the will of a strong leader in times of war or unrest, going from a democracy (balance) to an empire/dictatorship (disturbance to this balance). Lucas himself highlights the political careers of Caeser, Napoleon and Hitler as an analogy to what happens in the PT.

If the movies were *only* about the balance of the force, and the struggle between the Sith and the Jedi, reflected in the Skywalker family saga, why spend so much time and effort creating the political world of the PT?

Anyway, we all have our own opinions, and I enjoy reading other "points of view" that make me look at the movies in a new light.

 

Hm. I never thought of politics in this. Sounds reasonable though. However, the thing is teh New republic isn't real stable if you go on and read the books. Seriously, it nearly collapses many times. Anyways, I still say Anakin really didn't succed in doing too much but killing a bunch of force sensitive people and making a bunch of wrong choices. Gesh, i wish i could throw someone off a cliff and get redeemed for it.

 

If Anakin was the chosen one then why so much tragedy had to happen before the prophecy was completed. Yoda admits the prophecy was miss read why couldn?t every one leave it at that.

I think Anakin was part of the Prophecy, but it was his son that was the chosen one

 

honestly, I don't think the whole chosen one thing means anything. Seriously, read the books. there is still turmoil in the government and the jedi. The force is still divided...... I've said it before, i dont think anakin really played an important part in "unifying the force"

 

anakin is the chosen one. that question has been answered over and over even by GL himself. it certainly is not luke. that is the central story of star wars, it is anakin's story. but that doesnt mean there arent other things to discuss.

 

I don't doubt that he was the chosen one, but it doesn't seem to me that he played all too much an important role in the whole balancing of the force. He doesn't really fix anything by killing palpatine.

 

Of course he made a difference. Seeing as him and Palp were the last of the Sith. When he killed Palp and ultimately turned to the lightside, he destroyed the Sith. If that doesn't make a difference, then i don't know what would.

 

"...The ?phantom menace? refers to the force of the dark side of the universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader?also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction and Qui-Gon are correct?Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

--George Lucas, Cut Magazine, 1999