Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth_Darkmoon, Nov 1, 2012.
He has also said that there definitely would not be a Sequel Trilogy
The existence of the ST doesn't necessarily piss all over the OT and PT.
The existence of a reborn Palpatine... does.
He'd be monumentally stupid to bring Palpatine back as more than a malevolent spirit.
Having nothing to do with the Sith, Skywalkers, or Empire undermines any connection with the OT and PT as well, since that's what they were all about.
-Rise and fall of the Sith - concluded
-Rise and fall of the Empire - concluded
-Fall and restoration of the Jedi - ...
-Fall and redemption of the Chosen One - concluded
The restoration of the Jedi Order, which was implied but not shown, is really the only marginalized thread that wasn't concluded by the OT. Now I agree that bringing Palpatine back is problematic, since it pretty much makes Vader's redemption worthless in the sense that he fails to fulfill the prophecy, but as it stands I do see the ST as problematic for the OT and PT since the OT concluded everything that was paramount to the PT. And when by Lucas' own admission - at one time - the story was about Anakin and that there was just no story to tell in a ST, for him to suddenly turn around on that makes me think that it might just be some tacked on addendum that really has nothing to do with the predecessor trilogies. Or makes me think that maybe a ST wasn't ideal in his eyes, but perhaps a compromise he had to make if he was going to sell the company - since he also said at one point that he left explicit directions that there weren't to be any more features and definitely no ST, but here it is - after selling the company.
Some have speculated about Plagueis coming back as the villain. And while that sounds like bad fanfiction IMO, since he was little more than a plot device in ROTS and never mentioned again, that would still create a more solid thread across the trilogies.
Having Palpatine survive, the Imperial remnant linger on, and/or finding out that Anakin was not really the Chosen One all pretty much "spit" upon the PT and OT, but when it is all said and done and you watch I-IX, it could also work as a piece of a whole if you consider it all one story. Which some people do for I-VI, and I don't know how adding another trilogy can keep that same feeling if it ventures off into something completely related.
I only see the ST as problematic if it tries to follow up on some non-existent remaining plot threads. As an independent story that takes place far in the future, it could feasibly keep the PT/OT intact.
Might as well do what ANH originally did and call it Episode X, if that's what they are going for.
"Here's the tale of Anakin Skywalker: I-VI... then some stuff happened that you'll never know about and will be left to speculate on (episodes VII-IX) then we jump right into the middle of a new tale at Episode X after all the characters from the previous arc are dead (like you missed a huge chunk of the serial) and are thrust into the middle of a new tale and have to pick up on what's going on."
If they are trying to capture that feeling of a serial, it just seems odd to call it Episode VII when, by virtue of the actors' ages, there has to be a pretty significant jump forward in time.
Well we have plenty of time to speculate the story and plot but I for one just hope they dont completely start a new trilogy with out making ties to the old. I want that core struggle between the light side and dark side of the force to continue so if there has to be a new dark jedi or sith or whatever you want to call it envolved so be it. (The galaxy is a big place after all so saying something has been completely arradicated is a tall order) I dont want to watch an orphan jedi taking down a countless number of droids or laser packing henchman.
Some great posts...
Star wars fan here from age 3!!!
I think it will be about the Force and as many have said the balance of the force. Its always assumed that bringing balance to the force is killing sith, but I think its the emergence of the dark side. Evil will never go away. I wouldnt be surprised to see them throw this open that the dark side is as strong and the Star wars universe is a much darker place than we left it. So what will it entail?
C3P0 and R2D2
They have to be in it. Somewhere. I wouldnt be surprised to see new versions. Souped up with more advanced bodies. Maybe R2D2 has been reprogrammed and now controls all fighter crafts and computer technology. PO might have a more flexible humanoid body.
Original character offspring
Possibilities for Skywalkers with Jedi genes.
Wookies are very marketable characters. Chewbacca could be running around still flying (a more advanced) millenium falcon with Lando's kid. I doubt if we'll have any Solo's.
Still going to be a few million of these hanging around.
The tragic destruction of the planet of naboo, all gungans wiped out and it just happened to be the annual ewok jamboree that day too.. a sad day.
Okay.. I've said enough
He was the Chosen One and he did bring balance to The Force. At the end of Revenge of the Sith there were two Jedi and two Sith, i.e. Balance.
the Sith ARE the imbalance
All you really need is a schism of sorts within the newly-established Jedi Order. Disagreements on fundamental issues of philosophy and morality can erupt into physical violence without anyone embracing the Dark Side of the Force. Luke may embrace the "Living Force" philosophy that Qui-Gon (and later Yoda and Obi-Wan) advocated, while others may gravitate towards the more rigid codes of the prequel-era Jedi Order.
Maybe Anakin wasn't truly redeemed at the end of ROTJ? Maybe the ST will be more about the son helping redeem his father by paying for his sins or helping him overcome those in some way?
There's still alot we don't know.
As I said in another thread:
The struggle against the Sith was a definitive battle of good vs evil, whereas the ST should present a somewhat grayer struggle that arises from people's fear of history repeating itself. In my mind, there should be a lot of confronting the past and dealing with what happened in the first two trilogies. The Skywalkers should be facing a lot of blame and mistrust, since they're carrying on the ways of the Force and are the children of Darth Vader. Those who turn against them won't be selfishly evil like Palpatine - they simply fear for the future of their society.
In other words, the ST should wrap up the Skywalker Saga by reflecting upon and evaluating the events of the other trilogies - in an extremely entertaining way, of course
Copies - they are pasted
Exactly. And that fits into Lucas' decades old comments about the ST being more "philosophical" and the difficult moral choices the protagonists will face.
We have to consider how a galactic population would react if they discovered the people leading the alliance were a jedi knight and princess whose father was Darth Vader and how they want to redo a republic and jedi order that led to the empire in the first place.
Can you say Sins of the Father?
Force-users are not the Force, so the balance of the Force is not a balance of Force-users. Balance is restored due to ROTJ, not ROTS. Lucas said that balance was restored by ROTJ, and the script of ROTS says that balance is not restored in ROTS. Lucas and EU have stated that the balance is between the light and dark sides. Lucas most recently said this on the Season 3 TCW DVD.
this seems to be a very likely scenario. i imagine a rift occurring in the new jedi order, like a jedi civil war, compounded by independent outside threats. i'm not sure if someone succumbing to the dark side automatically deems them sith, though
I proposed more-or-less the same idea in another thread and I like the idea.
-Luke is Vader's son
-The Jedi and Sith are responsible for The Clone Wars (also its plausible that the average galactic citizen doesn't even know what a Sith is and just thought Dooku and Vader to be Jedi)
-Luke went AWOL during the Battle of Endor
-Luke was able to forgive and redeem his father, but chances are most people don't care if Luke made peace with his father, that guy still allowed Alderaan to be blown up.
-The Jedi sat on the heart of Coruscant and a Jedi is allegedly responsible for ordering the Clone Army without the approval of the senate. I doubt the new senate would be too eager to welcome the Jedi back to Coruscant or allow them to be in a position that is so close to the political center of the Republic.
So, yes I agree that the Sins of the Father angle can be played. Though while that "grayer" struggle can be part of the story, I definitely think there needs to be a good vs. evil angle too, something the Jedi can prove themselves against to regain trust. I mean both previous Star Wars trilogies begin right in the middle of a struggle with an enemy that is just kind of there and are pretty abruptly introduced in the opening crawl (Trade Federation and Empire). I would think the ST would dive right into events in a similar way.
And just as I would never have predicted that the villains of TPM would be a trade cartel, I'm guessing that the villains of VII will be something completely new that I would never guess. And as I proposed in the "Baddie" thread, it might be a matter of the Republic being attacked, losing, but still keeping the Jedi sidelined because they aren't trusted after the Clone Wars and Civil War, and the Republic ends up getting beaten pretty badly because of it before the Jedi end up having to save the weakened Republic that does not trust them.
I could see the Jedi predicament following ROTJ to be similar to how the status of samurai changed over time. At one time they could hold land and be lords, but this led to war as they fought amongst themselves, raised troops, and usurped each other. So eventually laws were passed to regulate the samurai, such as forbidding samurai from owning land and giving them the choice of laying down their weapons and becoming farmers (who could own land), or keeping their weapons but forfeiting land and living out of their lord's estate. And also regulating who could and could not be samurai.
If the Jedi are so mistrusted, I could see such regulation of the Jedi Order by the secular government being used to keep them under control or maybe causing a schism amongst the Jedi with those that believe they are being wrongfully oppressed leaving, etc.
Though the PT and OT is pretty much the story of Anakin. I mean the Sith vs. Jedi conflict goes back way before TPM, yet Lucas did not make that Episode I, he decided to begin Episode I with the discovery of Anakin and the rise of Palpatine to the position of Chancellor. From there is follows Palpatine's consolidation of power and Anakin's fall, and the saga ends with Anakin's redemption through his Son and Palpatine's death. Even with these two characters dead, I think their legacies have to have a major influence on the events of the ST.
Honestly, I'd be fine if Luke or even his kid balance the force. The whole "Chosen One" prophecy was never outright explained, and Yoda speculated in ROTS that they could have misread it.As much as Darth Vader kills the Emperor and therefore the Sith, I think it only means that the Sith are dead, not that the force is "balanced". What about all the other evil out there, especially from the Empire? If they were to clearly define this prophecy and where it came from, then I might be willing to accept it as is, but until such time, they can redefine it for whatever they want. George had 3 movies and a TCW trilogy to explain it, and it's still muddy.
Also, since the Palpatine returns as a Sith Ghost thread was deleted as I was replying, here's my thoughts on that: The only way I'd enjoy Palpatine returning is along the same lines as Ra's Al Ghul in TDKR. If he showed up in someone's bad dream or something that would be acceptable. Or maybe if the new villain accesses the Emperor's holocron. But I don't think he should come back in any large capacity. Also, I think George was against dark side ghosts, which is why he nixed the appearance of Darth Bane and Darth Revan in the Mortis trilogy.
I don't want to see Palpatine in the flesh, and I agree that Lucas abandoned the idea of Bane and Revan making appearances as Force ghosts, but he was also the one that allegedly asked Dave Filoni to pick a couple ancient Sith Lords from the EU to make appearances as Sith ghosts, which in itself seems like a contradiction to the ROTS novelization. I was under the novelization had already established that Qui-Gon, in retaining his identity after death, achieved something that the Sith never would. Yet several years later Lucas is the one that decides to have ancient Sith ghosts make an appearance, then later changes his mind again and abandons that idea.
It just seems like he flip-flopped on that idea a little. With how often he changes his mind, I wouldn't rule ghost Palpatine out. I could stand Palpatine as a spirit or a holocron, or if he leaves some other kind of legacy. But I don't want to see him cloned or resurrected in any way.
And what if Anakin's redemption didn't end with ROTJ but only began?
You could brig back Hayden as a force ghost who is stuck in the netherworld until he is somehow redeemed fully and that's what Luke and Leia struggle with.
Another angle is: what about Leia and Vader? He was her father after all too but it wasn't even touched upon in ROTJ.
That's a missed opportunity that could be rectified in a ST.
The Sith are the ones who unbalanced the Force in the first place. There is always going to be other evil out there, just as there was before the Force became unbalanced.
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't be too keen on Luke and Leia being front and center as main characters. They can be there to pass the torch like Leonard Nimoy did with Spock in the 2009 Star Trek film, but beyond that I don't think the spotlight should be on them. They can be mentors. Luke could be the ostracized Jedi re-building the Order while Leia is his sympathetic contact in the government. But I think the main heroes, should be new characters.
As for Leia's relationship to Vader, I think she would have it easier in the public eye. She's the adopted daughter of Bail Organa and has his surname. She was a politician that smuggled the Death Star plans to the Rebels, and a rebel leader that helped see victory for the Rebellion which would logically have founded a new Republic. Her being a daughter of Vader doesn't seem like it would hurt her too much. She spent much of her time fighting him indirectly, and helping topple his government.
Luke on the other hand followed in his father's footsteps, carries his surname, and ran off prior to the Battle of Endor to turn himself over to the Imperials, and now wants to re-establish the Jedi Order that yielded the likes of Vader and Dooku. I would think Luke would have a much harder time.
Since Anakin Skywalker brought balance to the Force in episode 6 by bringing an end to the Sith, will there be any Sith warriors in Episode 7?
Turns out, he mainly got rid of the Galactic Empire. The Sith bounced back. They are so not gone.
If we bring in the EU, the Darth Plagueis novel in particular, we know that they were messing with the balance of the force. In the movies we get that little bit about "influencing the midichlorians to create life" but it is my interpretation that the force spat out Anakin as a counter balance. The Sith my have thought that he was their answer to achieving total domination, even as Jedi tradition held that he was restore "balance."
Balance (still a vague concept at this point that they‘ll hopefully elaborate on), I’m going to guess, is a hard thing to maintain. So Anakin’s defeat of Palpatine and subsequent death my have swung the “balance” back in the other direction… but I imagine it like a seesaw, rocking back and forth, too far in either direction, as the momentum slowly dissipates…. Or until somebody pushed off with their feet again and changes something.
This being the case, perhaps the force responds again, but this time causing the birth of a reverse-chosen one(s).
You know, if they wanted to, they could let this saga be a never ending series of the Force going in and out of balance.
If they want the ST to conclude the Skywalker Saga, though, they might have to bring the Jedi Order to an end in order to ensure that the Force remains balanced. The end of the era of magic, so to speak.
Magic - will it prevail?