Speculation Balance to the Force - plotline continuation in Episode 7

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth_Darkmoon, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    It is not clear at this time what balance in the Force meant.
    For all we know, the Jedi were overweight and needed to spend some hours on the space-treadmill.

    But on a more serious note, the movies let me believe that the Prophecy was misunderstood by the Jedi. If it referred strictly to numbers, then the balance meant decimation of the Order until there were just as many Jedi left as Sith, namely two. Anakin killed every single one of them and the only ones remaining were Palpatine and Vader vs. Obi-Wan and Yoda. So it is possible that the prophecy was fulfilled at the end of Episode 3.
    Luke's (and Leia's) birth would only disturb that balance once again. With Vader and Sidious out of the picture, the balance would either remain...unbalanced OR 1-2 Sith would rise from the ashes to balance things out.

    Another way I look at the balance in the Force thing is that some pact between the Dark and Light Sides would have to be "signed", so that the good-evil polarization is no more. Once it's gone, balance would exist, as all Jedi and Sith have taken the neutral-gray path.
    For this to happen, there has to be some kind of diplomacy between the two sides OR some kind of cataclysmic event that would leave them no choice but to accept to coexist.

    The third way I see the Prophecy is by the extermination of all Force-sensitive creatures in the Galaxy. That, or every Jedi and Sith sever their link to the Force permanently. In this scenario, either "the Chosen One" would have to go around the Galaxy killing every Force-sensitive, then committing suicide OR someone else does it (highly unlikely) OR an event severs their link to the Force.

    In case of the first theory on this list, the Prophecy sounds more like it was made by a Sith Lord and the Jedi were tricked into believing it, unknowingly fulfilling the plans of the original creator of the Prophecy.

    Now it's time for a little babbling on this subject: who is that Sith Lord? Well, I am not going to dig into the EU for an answer (I will restrict myself to the movies and my speculation).
    So if I am going to link this to the Darth Plagueis stuff I've posted about on the other forums (you know, the fact that he faked his death and is still alive bla bla bla), I would say that it was him who made this Prophecy.
    All part of his master plan - creating the Chosen One, to get rid of all his enemies (both Sith and Jedi) so that he can march unopposed to the throne of the Galaxy.
    So Anakin is created from manipulation of the Force, the Jedi are led into a false sense of security, train him, then ultimately get killed. And "the Chosen One" then kills his former apprentice and all is good.
    I know, I know, once more I may by digging too deep into this, but that's why I called it babbling.
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Nov 4, 2012
  2. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    In the Prequel Trilogy - Jedi are essentially in their prime and they are many. The Sith are opposite. They are few and fighting to get back on top.

    Classic Trilogy - Jedi are essentially wiped out. Sith are still few, but now in control.

    Sequel Trilogy - Sith increase in number perhaps.... flipping roles...
    Darth kRud likes this.
  3. BobbySharp Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    I'd like to see a movie without any Sith. I know there is like a whole slew of Sith running around in the EU but I'm one of those people hoping that the EU is *&^%canned anyway.
  4. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It has nothing to do with numbers ( other than in the sense that the number of Banite Sith should be optimally zero ). Force-users are not the Force. Thus balancing the Force has nothing to do with balancing Force-users.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  5. Zer0 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    I doubt it, Dark Jedi, perhaps, but no Sith.
    Last edited by Zer0, Nov 4, 2012
  6. DarkLordoftheFins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    So you think that after creating the "brand" Sith over the last few years they will do a movie without them?
  7. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    OK, but I thought there was no in bewtween- a dark Jedi WAS a Sith.

    I think the balance will teeter back and forth, I can't imagine a movie without the Sith; the only other thing they could do is bring some powerful new enemy in that has nothing to do with the Sith or the dark side, but I doubt it (you never know though).
  8. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    In my mind "Dark Jedi" will always just be a way of saying "Sith." People thinking otherwise are getting caught up on some EU technicalities To me it doesn’t make sense to say “Dark Jedi” because you can’t be Dark and Jedi at the same time… Jedi is as much synonymous with using the light side as it is with any of the other trappings of the culture.
  9. GargantuanThrillMachine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 1

    i've always wondered what deems an individual the title of sith and just assumed it was a particular philosophy one must subscribe to, similar to kung fu's position as a specific philosophy in the larger world of martial arts. i dunno, all sith are of the darkside, but are all those of the dark side sith?
  10. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    In "no EU" canon, the Sith are one specific organization of darksiders.
  11. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Hmmm......

    Honestly, I am a big fan of the movies since the first SW was released when I was in grade school, but know very little about the EU content (in terms of other stories/books); never took much of an interest.

    I still would envision that they would be Sith; I don't see him using those. No mention in any of the SW movies of this (other dark Jedi). Who knows though.
  12. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

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    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    "Sith" may have been originaly one group, but it eventually evolved to mean all Darkside users.
    Sitara likes this.
  13. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    In the EU, that is.
  14. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I'm saying that Luke's apprentice wouldn't become a Sith simply by turning to the Dark Side.
  15. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    That goes without saying... hence the Dark Jedi talk above.
  16. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    We assume Vader brings balance to the force when he throws the Emperor down the shaft and dies himself, but nothing in the movie ever states this is the case.

    Maybe this is only the start of Anakin bringing balance?

    Maybe the inevitability of Anakin/Vaders death and the reason he, Obi-Wan and Yoda alone come back as spirits (something that George promised would be explained in ROTS, but was mysteriously left out) is because he will have to go on through the spirit world to battle the Sith and finally bring balance?

    Who knows.
    Last edited by G-FETT, Nov 4, 2012
  17. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    I'm starting to wonder if there is going to be another re-framing of the Saga in terms of who we are to regard as the hero of Star Wars.

    As a single trilogy, even with Vader throwing the Emperor to his death, Luke seems the hero of Star Wars

    As two trilogies, Anakin becomes the chosen one and is revealed as a tragic hero who achieves a kind of redemption many years after his fall from grace.

    As three trilogies, does Luke ( or somebody else we already know) get revealed as the hero in a single story that is not so completed as we may have once thought…
    DowClimber likes this.
  18. Jobertus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    I hope so, Sith are the best bad guys, I prefer the Banite Sith (with the Darth title) over other modern day Sith variants of 43 ABY (whom I personally view as inferior at best and pretenders at worst).

    As was stated earlier in this thread, not all force users who affiliate with the dark side are Sith. Dark Jedi are not Sith, perhaps they can become Sith, but we should not confuse the two. I suppose unless it is explicitly stated by GL or in the films, it is up to the individuals interpretation. Assaj Ventress is a Dark Jedi, not a Sith. The Keshiri Sith (of the EU) are in my opinion inferior to the Banite Sith, its all about the Rule of Two (which is more of a guideline than a rule, see Darth's Tenebrous, and Sidious with multiple candidates lined up.)
  19. Dunedain1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2003
    star 2
    Well, there certainly doesn't need to be more evil in the universe for the force to be happy and in "balance", that would be crazy... And Anakin coming back to the good side and killing the emperor has put an end to a great evil and made things more peaceful and serene (relatively), as is in keeping with the nature of the force. But there's probably someone out there being drawn in by the twisted and perverted dark side, a growing threat in the distance, perhaps from someone who stumbled on a tomb on Korriban...
  20. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    I disagree. Even in the EU the "Sith" are first explained as being a specific species that later inter-bred with exiled Jedi (your Dark Jedi) and become indistinguishable from one another. And Lord Naga Sadow was the end of the actual "Sith Species," so by that reasoning Palpatine isn't a Sith... which is absurd. And neither is he a Jedi who has fallen from the order. So my understanding is that "Sith" is a blanket term for those who embrace the darkside.
  21. Zer0 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    I consider them two different things.
  22. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Yes, they are different.
  23. Dunedain1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2003
    star 2
    Yes, a Jedi could be in the process of being drawn in by the dark side, being under it's influence, without being a fully trained sith and believing in their ways, etc. That would take special study, effort and time. And access to the needed study materials, which are not easy to come by.
  24. Jobertus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    The Sith species died out, but their dark side religion lived on in name and took various forms. Even between Naga Sadow and Darth Bane there were multiple variations. I never said Darth Sidious wasn't a Sith, he was one of the greatest Sith Lords of all time. (and obviously not a memeber of the Sith species). Assaj Ventress used the dark side, but she was not a Sith, she was a Dark Jedi. Not all dark siders are Sith, just like not all light siders are Jedi. Some Dark Jedi became Sith, it has happened, but this is not the norm. Sith are able to draw more deeply on the dark side and have a greater ability to tap into its power than a Dark Jedi can.
  25. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    OK, and I am hearing that some consider that to be true based on the EU. The question is, does Lucas consider them two different things? Lucas submitted the stories for these new movies, and did not write the EU (and has expressed that these are new stories, and NOT something from the EU). Therefore, I wonder if in his mind this is even a factor (that there are Sith as well as non-Sith dark side people). I know he gave permission for the EU material, but that doesn't mean it is anything like he would tell it.
    Last edited by Lee_, Nov 4, 2012