Speculation Balance to the Force - plotline continuation in Episode 7

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth_Darkmoon, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Anakin didn't destroy the darkside of the Force. He didn't defeat all darksiders. His goal as the Chosen One was to end the Bane line of 2 sith lords. With Palpatine dead and anakin turned to the light side or died on the darkside (I aint sure if he was on the darkside when he died), that darkside order was ended.
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  2. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    How can the Force, a spiritual, mystical energy or possibly sentinent entity that gives people souls and an afterlife, be created from mere cells? That's like a theist or a Christian or any religious person saying that God was created from all life, and somehow created souls, afterlife, and a luminous aura, all from cell functions.
  3. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    To me it is simple folks. Balance can be tipped back out of whack at any point. When Anakin brought balance to the force he did not eradicate temptation for Jedi to be evil. That is simple nonsense. What he did do was end a line of an evil organization that used the force to spread corruption, hatred, and devastation across the galaxy. Could other force users use their power for evil purposes again? Certainly. Anakin could never keep someone from giving into temptation. The balance issue is pretty vague, but it literally is incapable of meaning that Jedi will never become evil. The only way that can happen is if no one can ever use the force, and Anakin did not accomplish that task.
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  4. the-jedi-prince Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2011
    star 2

    Thats kind of why i think that mortis will play a big part in episode 7 with episode 9 finishing with a skywalker staying on mortis ending the use of the force, jedi and sith
  5. Reis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Ok I'm new here but anyways I just had to reply to this with my opinion.


    I personally think "balance to the force" means No Jedi and No Sith. Forget the eu stuff. when TPM begins we hear about a prophecy of the one who will bring "balance to the force". My issue with that is it's strictly something that Jedi believe in....not the Sith. Yoda and Windu even agree that the prophecy cold have been misinterpreted.
    The Jedi maybe had the best intentions with the force, but the poorest of executions. Even to the point of breaking it down to a science with what they called "midichlorians". I see the force as a natural thing, not to be tampered with IN ANY way. Palpatine had an excellent point in the opera scene in Revenge where he said "good is a point of view".

    I think that the Skywalker line is what brings balance to the force, Anakin brings it back to square one to the dark side, then with the help of his son brings it back to square one for the light side. In the end, by the time episode 9 hits, I think whomever the skywalker is that goes through their personal journey.. will realize that neither side is the best use of the force.
  6. the-jedi-prince Jedi Master

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    Jun 2, 2011
    star 2
    Mortis knew of the prophecy and the chosen one and tried to get Anakin to stay
  7. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Anakin was kinda like Space Jesus in the prequels. He had to complete a task once and for all. Destroy the Sith. No sith popped up after ROTJ.
  8. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Watch the Chosen One featurette. On youtube. Anakin brings balance to the force by destroying the sith-himself and the emperor. He killed the emperor and himself-who was a sith too. He couldnt turn back to the light side. It was too late for him to do that.
  9. Reis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Oh I know that stuff, I have watched that a bunch of times haha :) I mean I think it's the lineage of the Skywalker family that brings balance not just Anakin. Ending with the death of the last Skywalker (Luke or maybe a son/daughter) and that also ends any use or knowledge of the force in total, bringing everything back to square one
  10. Kraven Head Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 1
    As for the plot line continuation, remember the bit in AOTC where the libranian and Obi-Wan discuss the lost 20?
    Cheers, KH
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  11. Spazmatron Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2012
    star 3
    If you bring back the sith then you kind of ruin the idea of Anakin being the chosen one... Bring a new order of darksiders into the play which have been hiding for sometime.

    Also it would be cool if anyone on the dark side would be working with the good guys for once.
  12. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

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    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    [IMG]Where did Obi Wan get his clothes?
  13. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah. A good darksider. That sounds like a nice plot twist. I always thought of that. Too much black and white morality. Sometimes I wonder the Sith/darksiders are considered evil just because of their powers.

    Bring a new order of darksiders. Nice balance. Still keep the idea of anakin being the Chosen One, yet still keep darkside order.
  14. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    I am still convinced that balance in the Force was NOT achieved by killing the Emperor.
    I have said this in another thread: What can prevent one of Luke's future apprentices from going rogue or power-thirsty? Did the death of the Emperor somehow remove all the negative emotions in the Galaxy? I doubt it.
    So if indeed the prophecy was fulfilled at the end of ROTJ, then it was a lame prophecy since all it did was delay the inevitable...
    I continue to believe that the balance can be achieved either by the "removal" of all Force-sensitives in the Galaxy OR by a truce between the Dark and Light Sides, becoming the "Gray" Side (no more pure good or evil from the standpoint of the Force-sensitives religion).
  15. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3

    Let's be clear. No Sith popped up after Return of the Jedi because there have been no movies since Return of the Jedi. It could be painfully easy to have more Sith in the next trilogy and still not "ruin" the balance prophecy. The concept is so vague that even Yoda admits that his interpretation has every chance of being completely wrong. Anakin's act would be incapable of removing every single force user from being able to become evil. It just wouldn't work.
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  16. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    But that isn't as epic or cool as anakin being a messiah/savior figure. Or, to quote tv tropes, a "Dark messiah", or "destructive savior".
  17. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    George Lucas confirmed that Anakin brought balance by killing Palpatine and destroying the Sith Order and the Darkside. Look it up on Wookiepedia on the chsoen one. article.

    Here is a quote from Wookiepedia.
    Behind the scenesEdit

    George Lucas himself has stated that Anakin is the Chosen One and that the prophecy is true, although Luke indirectly served as the catalyst that allowed Anakin to fulfill the prophecy.[11][12]
    It is believed by some that the prophecy of the Chosen One is connected to the prophecy of the "Son of the Suns", as mentioned in the second draft script of what became Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope:
    "…And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as THE SON OF THE SUNS."
    Journal of the Whills, 3:127[src]

    This, however, was written in 1975, when the prophecy of the Chosen One had not been developed, and is actually referencing the actions of Luke Skywalker, not his father. This specific prophecy was eliminated in future drafts, but the name and general concept found its way back into canon, but with no reference to the Skywalker family—instead it is a more generic prophecy from Thyrsus,[13] and a Talz title belonging to Thi-Sen[14].
    Many fans incorrectly assume that balance refers to an equal mix of both light and dark side users. However, as George Lucas explains in the introductory documentary for the VHS version A New Hope, Special Edition, this is not the case:
    "The first film starts with the last age of the Republic, which is it's getting tired, it's old, it's getting corrupt.
    There's the rise of the Sith, who are becoming a force, and in the backdrop of this we have Anakin Skywalker, a young boy who is destined to be a significant player in bringing balance back to the Force and to the Republic...
    Then in the second film we get into more of that turmoil. It's the beginning of the Clone Wars, it's the beginning of the end of democracy in the Republic, sort of the beginning of the end of the Republic. And it's Anakin Skywalker beginning to deal with some of his more intense emotions of anger, hatred, sense of loss, possessiveness, jealousy, and the other things he has to cope with.
    And then we will get to the 3rd film where he is seduced to the dark side..
    Which brings us up to the films 4, 5, and 6, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."
    In an interview, Lucas compared the difference between the light and dark sides as being like the difference between a symbiotic relationship and a cancer. A symbiotic relationship is one which benefits both parties and in which neither is harmed, whereas a cancer takes without giving back, eventually causing the death of both parties.[3]However, even that was contradicted with the Mortis arc from the new Clone Wars cartoon, where the Father specifically states that the Chosen One is supposed to tame both the Light Side and the Dark Side and is supposed to replace the Father upon his death, with the implication that too much of the Light Side would have disastrous implications for the Galaxy at large.
    Some fans question whether or not the Prophecy was fulfilled, or if it was very effective. In the EU, several dozen Sith and Dark Side practitioners were alive and well when Palpatine was temporarily killed on Endor. Palpatine himself returned to a cloned body a short time later. The Empire managed to retain some of its power, while the Galaxy remained in conflict after conflict. Over a century later, galactic peace would be seriously threatened by a dark side collective known as the One Sith.
    However, if one were to view the balancing of the Force in a much grander scale in terms of history, ending at just after Episode VI, the prophecy was fulfilled by settling the conflict between the Jedi and the Sith dating back 5,000 years. The Great Hyperspace War marked the first major conflict between the Jedi and Sith, with its aftermath resulting in continued conflict between the two sides to determine the ruler of the galaxy. Darth Revan, a key figure of the post-great hyperspace war era, was a Sith Lord who passed on his knowledge and teachings of the dark side through holocrons, that would be discovered more than a millennia later by Darth Bane. Darth Bane would go on to create the Rule of Two which over the next millennia would achieve its ultimate goals of destroying the Jedi Order as it stood, as well as complete galactic domination. With the destruction of the Sith, its Empire and the Old Order, aNew Republic subsequently took its place with a New Jedi Order to replace the old. With a new galactic rule, which has yet to be fully unified under one power, and the destruction of a multi-millennia old Sith legacy, the galaxy (and by extension the force) can be interpreted as in balance with the prophecy fulfilled.
    However, it should be made clear that up until Star Wars: Episode VII was announched, that as far as George Lucas is concerned, the story ends with Return of the Jedi with the Sith destroyed and the Force in balance. "But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story." [15]
  18. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    I like the prophecy being simply about anakin destroying evil and the sith. A savior who turned to evil, but in the end, fullfilled his destiny and destroyed evil is an awesome plot twist. Far better than a lame hero with a heart of gold 100% goody goody chosen one.

    All these wierd fan theories are ok, but not as cool as my idea.

    Anakin destroyed the Sith Order. Not the darkside of the force. Not other groups of darksiders, like dark jedi. Just the sith. The main, evil, predominant darkside order.

    Werent the sith a political order too?
  19. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    You mean that a dilemma of having to either destroy all Force-sensitives or making the unthinkable - an alliance between Light and Dark Side (mortal enemies since forever) is less "epic" than some "Chosen One" story which is as cliche as it gets?
    Do we not want the heroes to have to make controversial decisions for the greater good? Do we want them instead to take the safe and easy path of some the "Chosen One" plot device?
    Why not complicate things a little bit, spice things up, make them a bit less obvious, less direct...make the audience along with the heroes debate as to what is the best decision to make in a crucial time? That creates tension. Such dilemmas can evoke emotional responses from the audience.
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Nov 5, 2012
  20. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    A chosen one who destroys evil is cliche. But a chosen one who joins evil and does atrocities (younglings, alderaan, death star), and is the 2nd in command of the bad guy, but turns to good in the end, a fallen messiah, is not cliche.

    Besides, watch the Chosen one featurette or wookipedia article on chosen one. All your ideas might be cool, but they go against what Lucas said.

    Besides, its kinda wierd if theres an epic prophecy about anakin who wipes out both orders-jedi and sith. Anakin only killed a dozen or so Jedi. The empire did most of it. Without him, order 66 and operation knightfall would've still happened. It makes absolutley no sense. It's not as epic as a fallen savior idea.
    Last edited by Lord Tyrannus, Nov 5, 2012
  21. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    You may be right about the fallen hero idea. It is an interesting one. The problem with it is that I don't know how well it will translate into the ST since Anakin is dead. Luke is not the Chosen One, so it would be silly to have Luke do what his father was meant to.

    The reason I was talking about my version of the Prophecy was that it could translate a lot better in the ST than the Chosen One concept. Anyone could be placed in the situation of having to make one of the two decisions I talked about earlier.

    Again, I know that the chances of me being right are very, very slim. In the end what Lucas envisioned weights the most in the grand scheme of things. I am curious myself to see how it will all turn out in the end.
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Nov 5, 2012
  22. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Maybe Anakin still needs to be redeemed to fully restore balance? Maybe ROTJ was just the start of bringing balance but not the end?
  23. Reis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    There doesn't need to be with or jedi...just light and dark use of the force.
  24. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    I agree. Luke cant be the chosen one, that's his father's job. We were talking about the CHosen one and balance to the force, which involved anakin and the prequels. Thats why I brought it up.What do you mean by anyone could be placed in the situation of having to make one of the two deicisions you talked about earlier? What?

    A fallen hero is a common theme. A fallen who turns good is too.

    What about a fallen Jesus figure?

    Like anakin. He was virgin-born, the person of a prophecy, had superpowers, was destined to defeat evil, he did just that. He had a john the baptist figure-qui gon, who found him and proclaimed him to be the savior/chosen one.
    Last edited by Lord Tyrannus, Nov 5, 2012
  25. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    I meant that unlike the Chosen One prophecy which only Anakin could fulfill, the two "dilemmas" (destroying all Force-sensitives/merging of the Dark and Light Sides) would be more flexible, since they don't require a specific character to be placed in the situation of having to choose the right path. So that is why I think that they are much easier to implement into the story of the ST rather than the Chosen One thing.

    There are two things here to notice. First of all, when Qui-Gon meets Anakin, he tells Obi-Wan that the boy seems to be conceived by midichlorians.
    Second, during Palpatine's story in ROTJ, he says something about Darth Plagueis using midichlorians to create life. Then he looks at Anakin in a very strange way.
    I always thought that Palpatine implied the idea that Plagueis created Anakin. Why would the writer add that line to the dialogue if it had no connection to anything else?
    So if indeed Plagueis created Anakin, then why would a Dark Lord of the Sith "so powerful and so wise" create someone who was going to become the Chosen One, the one to destined to destroy the Sith (therefore himself as well)?