Speculation Balance to the Force - plotline continuation in Episode 7

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth_Darkmoon, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Saurion-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2001
    star 4
    Next he will have the Borg battle luke with a pokemon
  2. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    cloned Luke or Cloned Pokemon?
  3. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    It also makes zero sense for Anakin's act to keep anyone forever from turning to the dark side. Things went out of balance once. Nothing ever said it would never get thrown out of balance again. I'm not saying for certain there will be sith, but one would be a fool to put money against it.
  4. Ron Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    That's what I feel now. I initially would have liked Anakin to actually destroy the Sith forever, but evil can spring from various places in various forms. There could always be someone who tries spread the teachings of the emperor.
    Last edited by Ron Fett, Nov 19, 2012
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  5. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I know Grevious dies in Revenge of the Sith. I am not asking what happened. I am asking why it happened. I am asking why and how did Grevious survive the Clone Wars?

    How did Grevious get to the Revenge of the Sith to begin with?

    Because Darth Maul was a sith lord who was cut in half by a little padawan learner named Kenobi. So, if a padawan Kenobi can cut a sith lord in half in his first meeting with Maul, then why can't Jedi Master Kenobi ten years later cut in half a not sith lord Grevious?

    Kenobi runs into Grevious all of the time and Grevious gets away every time? Are you telling me that Grevious is so much better than Maul because he is able to survive much better than Maul did?

    Wouldn't that make Sideous a failure for having such a weak Maul apprentice.

    If I was Sideous, I would have had Grevious as my apprentice, if I knew how weak Maul was. Maul gets cut down by a teen jedi. And Grevious survives for years with hundreds of jedi all around him. Maul kills just one jedi master and Grevious, who is not sith, kills much more jedi than that.
    Last edited by JoeyArnold, Nov 19, 2012
  6. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 12, 2012
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    Grievous was not adept in the force. It's getting old with people saying Grievous should be a sith when he could not use the force. as for why maul got cut down by a simple padawan. First let us keep in mind that maul was also just an apprentice. He was not a sith master. I'm not sure how much of an age gap there is between Maul and Kenobi. Also Kenobi was prepared enough to enter into Knighthood. Qui-gon said so himself, and it was just in an attempt to ditch one padawan so he could have another. The only reason Kenobi was still a padawan was because the council was biding their time. Secondly both the movie, and books make it painfully clear that Maul was prideful and arrogant to an idiotic level. Maul thought he had the fight in the back so rather than finishing it like a proper sith should do he gloated and toyed with Kenobi.

    So in the end, no Grievous should not have been an apprentice of Sideous. Being capable of wielding a lightsaber does not automatically mean being sith potential. Grievous couldn't do a thing with the force. People need to let it go.
  7. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

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    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I know Grevious was not adept in the force, but Grevious was very good at killing jedi. That is all I am saying. Plus, are you sure Grevious wouldn't have been able to learn the force? Plus, being a sith is not just about using the force because it is also about being good with a lightsaber & Grevious was able to fight with four lightsabers at the same time.
    Last edited by JoeyArnold, Nov 19, 2012
  8. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 12, 2012
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    Here is the difference between our statements on this. You are saying sith can be sith if they are really good with a lightsaber. I am saying Sith need to be capable with a lightsaber and be capable of using the force. Sith are first and foremost force users. Grievous is a useful tool for Sidious. he is good at what he does, but he could not be a sith. Being capable of using a sword does not make you capable of being a powerful sith/jedi. In fact many powerful sith and jedi rarely use lightsabers at all.
  9. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    True. It's too bad Grevious wasn't a force user (unless if he secretly was). Grevious did have better luck than Maul. In the Plagueis book, it seems to indicate that Sideous was more interested in Dooku and less interested in Maul as an actual apprentice. It almost seems like Sideous wanted Kenobi to kill Maul.
  10. tsunami1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    Maul was an expendable weapon - powerful enough to be used as a tool, but never intended to be seated at the right hand of the Sith when they took over. He was only ever temporary. Dooku describes him as an "animal" - no cunning or guile. Grievous is a dangerous, powerful cyborg who can be sly when he needs to be. That is why he survives - because he's cleverer than Maul was.

    Oh, and FYI; you can't "learn" the Force if you weren't born Force-sensitive - you either have it, or you don't.
  11. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

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    Nov 7, 2012
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    No. Disagree. Force can be learned to some extent by everyone to different degrees.
  12. tsunami1138 Jedi Master

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    Nov 15, 2012
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    Um. No. Certainly not in the quantities you're talking about. As a general rule of thumb, if you're powerful enough to shove things around telekinetically, you get picked up by the Jedi or the Sith. Under that, you just get unidentifiable visions and slightly quicker reflexes, or vague impressions of what's about to happen.

    Grievous certainly does not have enough Force-sensitivity to learn any sort of useful aspects as a warrior. He's also definitely not strong enough in the Force to be a Sith Lord (which is a religion, FYI, and not just a collection of anybody-with-a-lightsaber-who-isn't-dressed-in-brown-robes). If he had, your current favourite Sidious would have taught him some tricks, would he not?
  13. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

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    Nov 7, 2012
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    Was Bane and his rule of two, and the line of sith lords and apprentices that descended from Bane's line, from a thousand or so years before the Phantom Menace, the only surviving sith from those wars back then? So, Bane and his apprentice were the last two sith in the whole entire universe at that point?
    Last edited by JoeyArnold, Nov 19, 2012
  14. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    yup
  15. DarthKreVass Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 27, 2008
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    Well, if we go by the movies, the Sith have risen and fallen over the course of many years, just like the Jedi. I see no reason why they can't bring back the Sith. I just hope it's a new concept and NOT Palpatine.

    The Jedi purge didn't wipe out ALL the Jedi, as Yoda and Obi-Wan survived, why not the Sith?

    Maybe the concept of Balance will be further explored in the next three installments :)
  16. DarkGingerJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2012
    star 2
    I prefer no Sith. But, amusingly, I was just thinking about how they could be re-introduced. Perhaps Luke is scouring the galaxy searching for force-sensitive beings. He follows a force signal to a temple, a crypt, and finds a slab of carbonite with a guy inside. He unfreezes the dude, who turns out be a thousand year old Sith. Heck, perhaps the Emperor had a storeroom filled with carbonite Sith slabs all at the ready. Each time he needs a new apprentice, walks down stairs to the basement crypt and gets one.

    Ok. Kind of a lame idea. Just playfully theorizing.
  17. SithLord_1270 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2008
    star 3
    They are two different things. Dark Jedi are NOT Sith. NOT all practitioners of the dark side are Sith. It is correct that there was once a Sith species that the exiled Dark Jedi encountered then took over. They did interbreed with them. I think the Sith species disappeared after the war that is in the online Old Republic game.

    But the Sith we r used to like Palps & others call themselves Sith bc they are members of the Sith Order that has its own traditions & rules. You can't just declare urself a Sith. Ventress did that & got corrected by Dooku.

    But what defines balance? Don't u need good & evil? Light & Dark?
    Last edited by SithLord_1270, Nov 23, 2012
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  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    There will always be evil in the galaxy, Sith or no Sith.
  19. DV75 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2001
    star 3
    Dark Jedi perhaps - maybe not a Sith.

    I would prefer something like that.

    It has to serve the story - provide depth to a character and not some random baddie that looks cool but nothing else (*cough*Maul in TPM*cough*).
  20. TiniTinyTony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2003
    star 5
    Growing up, I thought balance of the Force (and balance of anything for that matter) is 50% good and 50% evil. This is not true in the Star Wars universe. George Lucas once said (and I'm overall summarizing) that the Force is balanced when all the evil (Sith) are dead. The Sith bring corruption and they unbalance the natural state of the Force. So in canon, the Force is brought back into balance by Anakin Skywalker when he kills The Emperor.

    So the question posed is will the balance of the Force be a continued plot device in Episode VII - I believe yes, and maybe the opening crawl will touch on how peace and justice have been restored in the galaxy before **** hits the fan because it's Star WARS, not Star Peace.
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Again, there is always evil regardless of whether or not there are any Sith. If you watch the films there are quite a few evil non-Sith characters. Getting rid of Sith hardly gets rid of evil.
  22. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I haven't read this entire thread yet, but it seemed like as good a place as any to post my crazy theory, so here goes:

    In the beginning there was only the Force. As we know, the Force creates life and makes it grow, and this is exactly what happened. Eventually this life evolved into great wise beings with total knowledge of the Force (Whills, perhaps?). But somewhere down the line, something happened which created a division among these beings, and they split into two opposing religions... the Jedi and the Sith. From the moment this occurred, the Force was out of balance. These two philosphies could not coexist, and each one on it's own was fundamentally flawed. Great battles ensued and for a time the Sith (who valued power above all else) were triumphant, taking control of the galaxy and ruling it through a time of great darkness. However, as is dictated by their very nature, the Sith consumed themselves and eventually their numbers dwindled down to the point that the Jedi were able to defeat them. But though the Sith were thought to be extinct, one remained in hiding and established the Rule of Two, passing his knowledge down through the generations until the time was right for the Sith to re-emerge and destroy the Jedi to reclaim their seat of power. Finally, this did indeed come to pass in the time of Darth Sidious, however there was one thing he didn't count on. Before their division, these ancient beings (who had a power of foresight far beyond that of either the Jedi or the Sith) knew that this day would come, and created a failsafe in the form of the Chosen One, who was to emerge during this period when both the Jedi and the Sith would reach their fewest numbers, so that both sects could be destroyed and the One True Religion could be re-established. This brings us to the ST, where due to the existence of one remaining Jedi (Luke), the Sith are able to return once again... because as long as one exists the other must as well. However upon his death, Qui-Gon Jinn had somehow found a way to commune with these ancient beings, who had long ago learned the secret of retaining their individual identities in death, yet needed an emissary in order to communicate with those still living. Qui-Gon was able to teach this secret to Yoda and Obi-Wan, who in turn were able to teach Anakin upon his death. For it is Anakin alone, as the Chosen One born of the midi-chlorians, who is able to attain complete mastery of the Force through the teachings of these beings, and it is Anakin who is then able to pass this knowledge down to his son. Luke himself is the mentor of Leia's twin children, one of whom follows the path of the Jedi and one of whom breaks away to follow the path of the Sith. Eventually Luke dies, but he was able to learn the truth from this father and pass it down to his remaining student, who then has to find a way to share that knowledge with his/her twin in order to combine their teachings and return to the ancient ways, restoring balance to the Force once and for all.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Nov 24, 2012
  23. TiniTinyTony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2003
    star 5
    I agree with you Arawn_Fenn, but when talking about the balance of the Force, I wouldn't consider that the run of the mill evil doers are unbalancing it. A Dug sabotaging a pod racer, a kid selling death sticks, or a bounty hunter collecting money for his bounty isn't unbalancing the Force. I believe the Sith are directly responsible for the unbalance.
  24. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  25. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I know my theory doesn't exactly jibe with what Lucas has said in the past, but we all know he's prone to change his mind and it just seems to me that in order to keep this trilogy from being a retread of what we've seen before, it would be interesting to explore... a larger view of the Force.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Nov 24, 2012