Speculation Balance to the Force - plotline continuation in Episode 7

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth_Darkmoon, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Jedi-Master-Vader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2003
    star 1
    Lucas maintained his firm stance that the story was complete after Episide 6. Don't be too surprised to see Episode VII exploring events before Episode I. Possibly Yoda's rise through the Jedi Order.
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  2. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    That would surprise me a great deal. The reason Lucas titled Episodes IV, V, and VI as such was to indicate that there were three movies preceding it which at that time may or may not ever get made. Now that Episodes I, II, and III have been made, you can't really go any further back in time and still have have it be called Episode anything, much less Episode VII, which clearly indicates a continuation of the story moving forward in time. Besides, Lucas has gone back and forth for 35 years about whether there was more story to tell after Episode VI, and it would seem that he finally went back to his earliest notions of the answer being yes, which is what he actually maintained right up until he started making the prequels.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Nov 24, 2012
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  3. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    No.

    Force potential depends on how high you cell count is via the midichlorians. not everyone has potential. That is explicitly stated in Episode I
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  4. Keeper_of_Swords Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 5
    "Well, if we go by the movies, the Sith have risen and fallen over the course of many years, just like the Jedi. I see no reason why they can't bring back the Sith. I just hope it's a new concept and NOT Palpatine" - Darth KreVass

    I agree, balance could have been restored for say 30 years, then the movies will follow from a point when there is a new disturbance in the Force. True Anakin's sacrifice would loose a lot of it's impact, but storytelling wise i'd rather that then no balace-to-the-force explanation and see movies riddled with Sith.
  5. Tallos Renkaro Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Being a Sith is a philosophy/lifestyle/view of the force, where you thrive on your emotions and act directly on them. It is also a philosophy of the strong leading/controlling/oppressing the weak. They believe that true order to the galaxy is only viable through one strong leader. Also, they crave power, constatly striving to become better, stronger/more powerful.
    A Sith can be a former jedi (Anakin/Vader)), but doesn't have to (Palpatine/Sidious)

    A dark jedi can be many things. One thing they have in common though is that they have all been trained as a jedi, but somewhere a long the line they dissagreed with the jedi teachings/philosophy/view of the force, and broke away from the order.

    A jedi believes in suppressing their emotions, to bury them deep inside. (amongst other things)
  6. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    The only way I could see this work is (don't throw rocks at me just yet) Luke turns to the Dark Side and becomes a Sith Lord and Anakin's ghost has to either:
    1. do something to turn him back to the Light Side in the last moment
    2. kill him

    Luke could turn to the DS by visiting a temple or crypt (Korriban?) where the Dark Side has a strong presence.
    He could either become evil himself or get possessed by a dead Sith Lord (Plagueis/Sidious' spirits).
    The idea behind this theory is that Anakin killed the Emperor, but little did he know that his son will become a Sith Lord. So in theory he did not destroy the Sith at the end of ROTJ.

    Also remember that Luke did not receive the training other Jedi did before him. He barely received a basic training from Obi-Wan, then from Yoda. Even if he resisted Palpatine's initial attempts at turning to the DS, his lack of training would represent a weakness to be exploited by the "evil guy" of the ST.
    The Jedi made a big deal about Anakin being too old at the age of 7 or something in TPM. So if Luke can become a Jedi by being trained at the age of 20, then that would mean that the Jedi had NO REASON to ban older kids from joining their ranks.
    Not to mention Luke's training was no where near as extensive as the training of a Jedi in the Old Republic.

    And Luke was not the Chosen One. Anakin was. So there really is no reason why Luke can somehow defy the rules of the Old Jedi Order and become a Jedi without any risk. The only reason Luke was special in the OT was that he was the ONLY Jedi actively fighting bad guys.
    By comparing his fighting style and agility with the one of an average Jedi we see in the PT, Luke really isn't THAT good. I don't think he would have stood a chance in a fight with Dooku or even young Obi-Wan/Anakin. He would get crushed.


    Now you can throw rocks at me...
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Nov 25, 2012
  7. Keeper_of_Swords Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 5
    It will be interesting to see Luke's reaction if in some way the Sith resurface...
  8. Darth Claire Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Probably this "No I am a sith. We have returned!"
  9. bighairedaristocrat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2013
    star 1
    The whole prophecy stuff doesnt really make sense to me, atleast with how we've commonly interpreted it.

    In TPM, the Jedi believed the Sith had been extinct for a thousand years. During this time, the also evidently believed the force was "unbalanced." If not, then why would they be concerned with prophecy about one bringing "balance to the force?" From that perspective, the force could not be "balanced" if the sith were extinct. Therefore, balance could only be brought to the force by re-introducing the Sith. But if thats true, then how could they possibly look to the one the prophecy spoke of as a savior?

    I honestly beleive the part i bolded is NOT true. All indications are that balance is brought to the force by the Destruction of the Sith... but that doesnt make sense logically with what weve seen the Jedi say in the movies. Basically, my point is the that George Lucas didnt think the whole prophecy thing through when he came up with it. There is no way to reconcile what the jedi beleive the prophecy says with their other statements and beleifs.
  10. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I think the whole chosen one prophesy/balance to the force storyline will be abandoned in the coming projects
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  11. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    [face_praying]
  12. bighairedaristocrat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2013
    star 1
    I would support that.
  13. RAZORBLADE Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2013
    star 1
    personally i do not want to see sith, it would mess up the prophecy that anakin fulfilled. i would focus on a jedi civil war instead. there would be no jedi crossing over to the dark side. my theory is luke stuck around for a few years after, training leia in the ways of the force, then took off somewhere far far away to set up a new jedi order. we pick up the story 30 years later. the galaxy is in a cold war. there are numerous factions vying for control. they are the new republic, the imperial remenant, and the independent systems who do not want to be involved in either of the above. each faction has an army, but have not used them. but there is a real tension in the galaxy. enter our villian, an anarchist who wants to incite war between the faction's. why? this would be revelad over the course of VIII. Leia sends her son Jacen to find Luke and the jedi. he tracks them down on a wild planet, numbering around a dozen jedi ranging from masters to younglings. luke agrees to help, he returns to the galaxy and fights the anarchist, who he realises has been trained in the force.after beating him he realies that one of his students must have trained him. End of VII the next movie would pick up 7-10 year later, the jedi now number 30 or 40. the bad student would reveal himself. he trained the anarchist to incite war to lure the jued out of hding. this student, called Hazard wants the jedi to control the galaxy, and make sure that problems are put down before they arise, but luke wants to let the galaxy deal with problems themselves, only stepping in when things get out of hand. this causes a split and pits jedi against jediEP IXtakes place 7-10 years again and both jedi groups have grown into a hundred each and have been fighting for a while
  14. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Too epic of a story line to just throw out. Thousands of years of Jedi vs Sith. There will be Sith and there will be Jedi and they will be the foundation of the new series.
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  15. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Blah blah prophecy blah. Bringing balance to the force looks like this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang

    Where one side isn't overtaking the other.

    Yuck



    Yukkier


    Yukkiest
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  16. RAZORBLADE Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2013
    star 1
    then come on punk give me your idea
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  17. TheManFromMortis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2012
    star 2
    _ _ _ _

    This reminds me of something I posted elsewhere. I'm not into your idea about battling through the spirit world. However, I do think that Episodes VII-IX will make clear that Vader destroying Sidious was only one step toward redemption for Anakin and/or the Skywalkers. I think we'll see Luke or another Skywalker having to perform some heroic act, or an act of self-sacrifice, to truly fulfill the prophecy of The Chosen One.
    Last edited by TheManFromMortis, Feb 21, 2013
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  18. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Clint Eastwood pilots the millennium falcon into deep space in search of dilithium crystals but his ship breaks down on a planet and he becomes lost in space....wait a minute, thats not Star Wars.
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  19. Keeper_of_Swords Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 5
    I think the whole chosen one prophesy/balance to the force storyline will be abandoned in the coming projects


    That doesn't make sense in my opinion, because the Force is a current theme throughout any star wars story...I am not saying it was a good or a bad idea to introduce it, but if balance to the force was an aspect of the prequels and to a certain extent...Return of the Jedi...with the elimination of the Sith,...it must be referenced to in future movies as they are supposed to be a continuation.....it doesn't make sense to ignore it I think.........

    (That said, hopefully there wouldn't be lots of loopholes introduced by the new trilogy...the prequels and the originals blended well apart from how Leia remembers her mother....(I still fail to accept the Yoda quote "Through the force old friends you will see, past, future...something like that...))
  20. w4tkn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 1
    The balance thing might be interesting, there has to be more conflict in this trilogy. Perhaps as someone earlier alluded to we will see the Sith rise up and be more dominant and the end of the trilogy is the hero has to sacrifice himself and the Sith in order for the scales to be zero zero and an end to the inevitable back and forth. The word from over the years from that journalist back in the day who saw the treatments for the third and possible 4th trilogy said that this one was the most action packed. It does put a final end to the saga - you'd think by the time the trilogy wraps up Disney would have made back their 4 billion. Then if they want to revisit Star Wars they go stand alones and go prequel land. After Disney has their 4 Billion back, do they let it dry up? I don't think so, as long as there is a market they will want to keep tapping it but escaping the Saga narrative means their creative team has more freedom.
  21. Bullhead CIty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    I'm in the camp that balance is an ongoing theme. As long as George has any say in the matter, it will continue to be an ever evolving concept.

    I would characterize what's been happening since TPM through the end of the saga as some kind of giant endgame that's been brewing for thousands of years. Anakin was a part of the solution, not the answer.
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  22. Jedsithor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2005
    star 4
    I don't think balance is really about light and dark. Remember, the Force exists in all life. Remove the Jedi and Sith from the equation and you still have trillions of people in one galaxy alone with the Force inside them. They may not be strong in the Force but it's there and a trillion people weak in the Force can shift any light/dark balance just as much as two Sith or a thousand Jedi strong in the Force. Ordinary people feel anger and fear, compassion and love. If the balance of the Force was dependent not people not embracing negative emotion, it would never be in balance and destroying the Sith wouldn't solve anything. So for me the idea of light and dark doesn't really make sense.

    For me there is no light side. There is only the Force and the balance of the Force is basically the natural order. The Dark Side isn't an equal and opposite side, a ying to the Light Side's yang. Rather, it's a corruption of the Force. It is the unnatural. Things like raising the dead, manipulating midichlorians, using Future Sight to change the future, these are unnatural acts that defy the natural order and that's what creates the imbalance. That's what creates the corruption. It's the twisting of nature. The reason the Sith need to be destroyed is because they're the ones who have knowledge of these unnatural powers. In the future, any Jedi can fall to the Dark Side but as long as they don't discover Sith secrets and use those unnatural powers, they won't create an imbalance.

    This is why Jedi are incapable of creating imbalance. The Force can't shift towards a "light" side. Jedi are passive. They let the Force work through them and while they have powers, those powers don't twist the Force the way certain Dark Side powers do. A perfect example is future sight. Jedi can see the future, or at least see possible futures. So can Sith. The difference is, Yoda will look into the future and accept what is to come. Nature will take its course. But Darth Sidious looks into the future and the tries to manipulate events to create the future he wants. That causes imbalance and it clouds the vision of the Jedi because future events are being twisted.

    It's also important to remember that the Force strives for balance and purity. When Luke tried to change the future in Empire, he lost a hand. When Palpatine did it, he created an Empire but ultimately his manipulating of events clouded his own vision so that he couldn't see his own demise. Anakin brought balance to the Force by destroying the Sith because only the Sith had the knowledge to twist the Force, to twist nature. There will always be a Dark Side and people will always fall. Those people may call themselves Sith but they won't shift the Force out of balance unless they somehow discover the knowledge of the Sith to twist reality to their own design.

    At least that's my interpretation of it. This means you can have Dark Jedi and Sith Lords, at least by name in the sequels without the prophecy suddenly being unfulfilled.
  23. KevinM1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 2
    I mostly agree, Jedsithor. In the OT, The Force was explicitly described as emanating from nature itself. Just as nature encompasses both harmony (a grassy meadow) and discord (a lioness killing its prey), so too does The Force (which would explain the Dark Side cave on Dagobah being merely a normal, naturally occurring phenomenon). The idea of bringing balance to The Force just doesn't make any kind of sense in that regard. How would an individual balance a waterfall? Or a volcano? Or the wind?

    The prophecy/balance bit that was introduced in the PT is just, IMO, dumb. It degrades the scope of The Force by making individuals capable of somehow tainting it, or directly affecting it.

    I honestly hope that Arndt forgets the vast, vast majority of what happened in the PT and never mentions the prophecy in the new films.
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  24. BAK Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Apologies if this has been brought up already, but what if the antagonists in the new trilogy are not dark side users, but Light Side users?

    You could "unbalance" the force the opposite way: Crazy extremist cult leaders similar to the Westboro Baptist Church people, who are so far removed from the original intent of the Force but still convinced that they are doing the right thing. Never really doing anything technically illegal but spreading evil and corruption just the same.

    Though I do find it difficult to imagine a Star Wars movie without Sith.
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  25. Bullhead CIty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    When the current Batman trilogy ended, I was trying to think how WB could top Nolan's collective work. Then you start thinking about how stale the traditional hero vs. villain formula has become entering the second decade of the 21st century. Yes, elements of the struggle are eternal. But as far as audiences continuing to "buy into" a movie, a reversal of sorts needs to happen to change our concept of good vs. evil. My idea for a new Batman movie would feature a previously established villain as the protagonist. The main (central) protagonist, not a parallel story line with the antagonist being revealed simutaneously. You get to understand what makes him/her tick as a person. What their motivations are. Then you have this reverse protagonist pursue grey area goals, and have the Bat swinging in as the antagonist stifling their plans. (I mean do you we really have to see Bruce Wayne's parents murdered in the alley again????) I think that would make for a compelling story.

    Applying that to the Star Wars universe, the Sith as the protagonists would be quite interesting IMO. Let's be honest, what were you more interested in during the PT era? The Jedi? Or how Palpatine turned into the Emperor? How Anakin became Vader? There's a reason ROTS was the most popular of the three.
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