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Balanced Force = Chaotic Galaxy? (or ... Reconciling the EU)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by EntechednReformatted, Oct 26, 2009.

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  1. EntechednReformatted

    EntechednReformatted Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 17, 2009
    Something I've been pondering lately ... what's up with all of the galactic turmoil in a universe where the Force has been brought into Balance?

    At the beginning of Episode I, we know that the Force is out of balance. Well, let's look at the state of the galaxy. It is a very stable place, dominated by four institutions.

    1. The Republic, a vast and ancient galaxy-spanning government that is becoming increasingly ineffective.
    2. The great commercial conglomerates, wielding an increasing amount of political and military power.
    3. The Jedi Order, devoted to maintaining peace and justice, and the current status quo.
    4. The Sith, pulling everyone's strings from the shadows.

    Now let's look at the state of the galaxy at the end of Episode VI, when the Force has been brought to a state of balance.

    1. The great commercial powers have been completely crippled since the end of The Clone Wars. (Anakin played a key part in this.)
    2. The Jedi Order has been destroyed, and only a single Jedi Knight remains to carry the torch. (Anakin played a key part in this, too.)
    3. The Sith have been overthrown, (I seem to remember Anakin having some sort of role here, as well)and as a result:
    4. The vast and ancient galaxy-spanning government has collapsed.

    All 4 of the major galactic players from Ep. I have been effectively neutralized. In other words, achieving the Balance of the Force also introduced rather a large degree of anarchy into the Galaxy, which gives the EU a good excuse to keep telling stories in a universe with a Balanced Force. For the next century and more, the Galaxy has never regained the stability it had in Episode I. The New Republic was short-lived and never as ubiquitous as the Old Republic. Nor have the Galactic Alliance, the Felpire, or Krayt's Empire achieved the stature that the Old Republic had. The Jedi order has been reestablished, but has never really regained the status it enjoyed prior to its destruction. The commercial powers only wield any real political and military power in the Corporate Sector. They are still not true transgalactic players. A few incarnations of the Sith have returned, and have had some temporary success in reestablishing some control over the galaxy, although not to nearly the degree Palpatine had. No one particular institution has been able to grow TOO powerful or TOO entrenched, as the big Four from EpI seem to have.

    The question is, is this state of galactic affairs NECESSARY to keep the Force from becoming unbalanced again, or will this century plus of conflict merely end up being a relatively brief period of growing pains compared to the next few thousand years of peaceful democracy?

    The alternative: that the Force WAS balanced for one blissful week, and then quickly went to rat$#!7 again. Don't ... want.
     
  2. madman007

    madman007 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Let's try not to go off-topic in the first post.
     
  3. xx_Anakin_xx

    xx_Anakin_xx Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 9, 2008
    Interesting question. But I would question whether the Force being in balance necessarily has anything to do with the state of governments, commercial enterprises and other ecomomic and social institutions/entities. There may be various writings on this that I haven't read, but perhaps balancing the Force speaks only to the aggregate use of it by force sensitives. For example, when it was imbalanced during the OR period, Sidious was clouding the Force in some kind of pervasive manner. Hence, it crippled other Force sensitives from freely using the flow of the Force. A result of that might be a more chaotic state in the entire galaxy with a lot of the chaos you spoke of - but not necessarily the only manner in which that type of chaos can prevail. So for example, after the Force was finally balanced (Sith clouding effectively removed), you could still have chaos based on more normative problems associated with any society in terms of governing, competition, economic concerns, etc. But the Force itself would remain unblocked to all Force sensitives (light and dark) and since it was still free flowing, continue in a balanced state - independent of how long chaos reigns otherwise. In that case, the galactic affairs would not impact the flow of the Force or be necessary to its state of balance. The only thing that could c
     
  4. whateveritis12

    whateveritis12 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2008
    I think the upheaval of the Galaxy for the past 70-75 years (episode I-FOTJ) have been because there has been no stabilized galactic government. Palpatine threw things in disarray in the Old Republic because he wanted to be THE ruler of the galaxy. Proponents of the Old Republic (Delegation of 2000) didn't like it and so they started rebelling against his rule. Once Palpatine died the and the Rebellion moved to a Republic, they still had to deal with an Empire that had lost little strength outside of having a strong unifying leadership. So while the Republic was reestablishing themselves as THE galactic power, they still had to deal with all of the Empire's strength through the various Warlords. After the Peace treaty at the end of the HOT duology I think the Galaxy fell back into a peace similar to what the Old Republic had. Then outside sources almost took over the whole galaxy and the governments had to wrestle control from them again.

    The point of this being that there has been no universally accepted Government as THE head of the Galaxy since between Episode I and Episode II and the rise of the Confederacy. All the chaos in the galaxy has been because of governments trying to assert their control over the other established governments, not because the force is out of balance.
     
  5. EntechednReformatted

    EntechednReformatted Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 17, 2009
    First, let me say that this is a completely reasonable and sound interpretation of what the Balance of the Force represents, and could very well be right.

    Second, let me say that I don't like it. :p Really, the only reason I'm not thrilled with this idea is that it seems to me to make the notion of whether or not the Force is balanced only of any real relevance to Force-sensitives. Since the Force binds all life together, I like to think that a Force shift has a broader impact than just those extremely rare individuals who can sense the Force directly. In other words, I personally feel that the state of the galaxy as a whole and the state of the Force should reflect each other in some way. Which is how I got on this train of thought in the first place, because on first glance at the post-ROTJ EU, they sure don't.

    The title of my post may have been a bit harsh (read: sensationalistic drivel). I don't really mean to suggest that the Force being brought to Balance necessarily dictates near-constant violence and warfare on a grand scale. I also think the Force is not at all concerned with any PARTICULAR political or economic institution. The Force is not a capitalist, a libertarian, a fascist, or a communist, and the Force certainly doesn't care about the taxation of trade routes, or whether or not the Integalactic Banking Clan has too much or too little influence. But what I am suggesting is that the Force may "prefer" a certain amount of ... what's the best word? Turmoil? Instability? I'm looking for more of a positive spin on that idea. Revolution! That's the ticket.

    I'm basing a lot of this argument on the idea (I think from Labyrnth of Evil but I may be mistaken on that) that the Force being out of balance is not a recent development around the time of EpI. The Force has been out of balance for long enough that entire generations of Jedi don't even really sense it, because it is all they have ever known. So long before any Confederacies or even Naboo Blockades were on the horizon, something was just wrong in the Force, and, by my reasoning, that suggests that this should somehow be refelected in the galaxy at large. But there doesn't seem to be anything overtly wrong with the galaxy in that period. In fact, it is a bedrock of stability. 1000 years of peaceful democracy. Think about that. It boggles the mind. What's the best any Earth society has managed? Of peaceful democracy?

    So of course it then occurs to me that perhaps the stability itself was the problem. That this was a weakness that an evil Sith genius could exploit. If I think in engineering terms (highly dangerous, as I am not an engineer), it is much easier to understand and manipulate a static system than a dynamic one. In a relatively static system, most responses can be calculated and are predictable, and therefore much more controllable. In a rapidly changing dynamic system, any actions are more likely to have unintended consequences. As a result, any would-be despot Sith Lord who tried to control a dynamic galaxy would be able to cause a lot of damage, but would never really be able to exert true control. Too many changing factors to juggle.
     
  6. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    The figure cited by Yoda, IIRC, was "200 years before the coming of Sidious". Obi-Wan in the ROTS novel reflects on his youth when the Force was "pure, clean and perfect" or something along those lines - but of course that's from his POV.:D
     
  7. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    [face_thinking]

    ...very nice, EnR. Very nice. =D=
     
  8. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    No, not really. Sidious has shown that he can manipulate a situation as dynamic and chaotic as the Clone Wars. Dark Rendezvous, Labyrinth of Evil and Revenge of the Sith show just how close Sidious rides the edge of disaster with his plans, and he's still able to bend the outcome to his choosing.
     
  9. KNIGHT_OF_NJO

    KNIGHT_OF_NJO Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Galacitc stability does, I feel, help the force reach balance but only indirectly and only if it is a positive and forward moving force, not negative and static/unchanging.

    Luke at the end of TUF states how to trully bring and keep balance to the Force, the balance the galaxy once enjoyed for millennia under the OR and Jedi Order: (this is paraphrasing not an extact quote) where there is inequality, injustice and fear the force is thrown out of balance, but through justice, equality, freedom and courage is the force balanced.

    The Force and life are connected, each having a profound effect on the other and Luke sees, again in TUF, that sentience adds a whole new layer to the nature of the force.

    Without sentience the force is balanced, only major catastrophies or rampaging forces can destabilize the Force in such a state.

    If you want an example of non-sentient life destroying the balance, the Yuuzhan Vong Vuusa beast for example fits the bill, rampaging across the lands leaving lifeless deserts in their wake. Such forces in a galaxy minus sentience can threaten the Force's balance, so much so that the Force may not be able to stabilize itself

    The impact of Sentience on the force can be symbolized with a huge glacier thrown into a small lake, its impact driving out most of the water leaving a mostly and temporarily dry lake bed until the glacier melts replacing the lost water. Sentience became the 'dominant force' (no pun intended) in the Force. Its needs, essence, and nature forever altering the balance.

    With sentience comes free will and choice, and those aspects of a person can only truly thrive if they have the freedom to do so, making oppression and tyranny natural enemies to sentient life and the force itself. Despair, happiness, bravery, fear, determination and love all spring from sentience and each has its own effect the sentient and life itself. Some have negative and destructive effects: fear, despair, injustice, corruption, hate and bigotry all are inherently negative and cause misery to people, both the victum and perpetrator.

    Happiness, courage, freedom, equality, tolerance, understanding, love and justice are inherently positive and constructive characteristics essential for sentient beings to thrive and live to the fullest. They flow with the force, help balance it so that it does not need evil as a force to keep the balance (evil is still there but simply existing in potentia EX: life from the time when the Sith did not exist after the Great Hyperspace war).

    This state was found under the OR for over 23 millennia, its people were brave, honorable, free, happy and fostered a positive 'can do' or 'never say die' attitude through peace and war. The OR was an informal organization, flexible and dynamic, yet strong and stable and ever moving forward, changing and growing, alive and vibrant as were the Jedi. All this was accomplished by the justice and freedom that came about from the OR, its citizens and the Jedi thus the Force was balanced and the galactic stage was stable and peaceful.

    The New Sith wars and the resulting chaos brought about the end of balance in the Force, most of the people despaired losing the inner strength, self-reliance, independence and will that defined their predecessors and the Force was effected by this loss: the Post Ruusan OR only recaptured a fragment of the greatness it had and that was static and unchanging, riding a wave of momentum that would not last forever. The Force may have been balanced for the most of those thousand years but unlike the Ancient OR it was not a balance that could have stood the test of time and the Banenite Sith knew that.

    All the Sith had to do was wait for the balance to fail on its own then they could begin to unbalnce it further themelves, their actions partially hidden by the natural imbalances the Jedi were powerless to stop. After all they were trying to preserve a kind of balance that could not stand on its own any longer and never had a real chance in the first place. It was an attempt by the shell
     
  10. xx_Anakin_xx

    xx_Anakin_xx Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 9, 2008
    Great read and an interesting idea. My question would be, how and why would the Banite Sith alone acquire knowledge of and/or recognize both an impending and actual unbalance in the Force?
     
  11. KNIGHT_OF_NJO

    KNIGHT_OF_NJO Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2004
    The reason why the Banenite Sith saw this and the Jedi did not was due to their respective perspectives and viewpoints of the galaxy. The Sith, taught by Bane and from their unique position in that society, saw the galaxy as it is, not what their preconceptions told them.

    The Sith always fed from the dark side of the Force and created the conditions in which it thrived to increase their power, to those like Bane's Sith I do not doubt they saw the connection between the state of the people and the state of the force and worked to turn that connection to their favor.

    Post Ruusan OR provided the perfect oppurtunity to finally turn the Balance of the Force to the dark side forever, and the new centralized/formalize govermnet now seperated and above its people was the perfect tool. We see this in the Darth Bane trilogy, book 2 I believe, Bane destroys a seperatist group on a planet to keep the galaxy under one government making a Sith take over easier and more complete.

    Sithus, a small comic from a graphic novel released before ROTS shows Palpatine using the Force to effect events across the galaxy, destabilizing the balance snd bringing the dark side closer to ascendance. It would not suprise me to find a central tennant of Banenite Sith is percieving when the balance is vulnerable and how to manipulate it directly when the balance is on the edge of collapse, as we saw in the PT.

    How did the Jedi miss it? They had come to be mastered by their fears, trapped in denial, refusing to acknowledge anything that did not match their preconceptions of reality (ex: the Jedi librarian in AoTCs). They failed to see how their balance was doomed to failure reguardless what they did, and vainly tried to fix what was impossible to fix and should never have been created in the first place.

    But they did so because it was all they knew and considered its flaws to be 'lesser evils' compared to what could happen if they let their balance fail. So lost were PT Jedi they failed to see that the 'flaws' of the Ruusan Reformation was the cause of the Force's unbalance in the first place.

    Bane's Sith all but had the galaxy and the Force handed to them on a silver platter.
     
  12. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    I would agree that the Force being in balance and the galaxy being at peace don't necessarily go hand in hand. As important as we see the Force can be, it does in the end come down to the choices the beings of the galaxy make. And the Vong certainly didn't help.
     
  13. Chiarcmorn

    Chiarcmorn Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Sep 22, 2009
    The so called stable galaxy was an ilusion. It was a corrupt system on the verge of collapse because of the darkness that the Banite Sith had spread. They poisoned the Republic, and so amplified the darkness which caused imbalance.

    Had the balance not been restored, I think we are supposed to conclude that the darkness would have been eternal. Just look how close Sidious came to defeat many times in the Clone Wars but because the galaxy was so tainted with darkness, he could ensure the outcome. Plus, it makes the Prophecy of the Chosen One truly significant.

    But restoring balance doesn't mean the political, economic, and tangible problems just go away. Instead, the its more like taking some kinds of medicine when your sick. You will get healthy, but some medicines make you sicker at first as they flush th disease out of your system.

    Consider most of the post RotJ EU chaos the dying throes of the already beaten imbalance.
     
  14. EntechednReformatted

    EntechednReformatted Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 17, 2009
    Stagnant rather than stable. Padme says as much. "It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions." Does it follow then that "bringing balance to the Force" entailed more than tossing a Sith Lord down a reactor shaft? That "The System" itself needed to fall, so that it could be recreated in stronger form? Was the poisoned Republic terminal? Would the corruption sown by the Sith have been cured if the Sith were removed: if, say, Anakin had decided to slice Palpatine instead of Mace way back when? Or did it all have to come crashing down to dramatically show the elite the error of their ways?

    If "The System" had to fail, then you could say that most of Anakin's life was spent bringing balance to the Force, destroying the elements of "The System" one by one. The Jedi, the Corporations, and finally the Sith and by extension the Empire/Republic.

    The question raised is this: Could balance have been restored to the Force in a gentler way? Or did it all play out the way it had to? Or to put it another way: did Anakin get derailed from his destiny when he joined the Sith and only get back on track at the end of RotJ? Or was he doing what the Force needed of him all along, even if for warped and selfish reasons? I dunno, but I like pondering it. [face_thinking]

    And one last thing, to throw some gas onto the fire and keep this tied into the EU, does that mean Jacen might have even been a little bit right when he concluded that Sith can be a necessary evil? If Anakin was unknowingly following the path the Force set for him all along, maybe the only difference between him and Jacen is that Jacen was knowingly following a similar destiny. [face_mischief]



     
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