Ban policy reform proposal

Kimball- From what you say, it sounds like you are a pretty fair mod. I've never had any experience with you, I have no idea, so it's not like I'm saying you *personally* aren't fair.

But epic's right. There is no reason not to institute a policy of warning.

First of all, I was never even in the Mafia game to my knowledge, so you must have messed up user notes.

Second of all, I do *know* the rules, but as I said, there's no hard and fast rule and it is different mod by mod and this is the problem.


Some mods allow stuff others don't. Did you read TripleB's story about being banned for something KnightWriter gave him permission to do?

All I'm saying is a forum-wide policy would make things easier on us, because frankly, not every mod is fair, some are given to emotion, others are objective. Some have stricter ideas of how the forum shoudl be run, some more lax. This causes a *lot* of confusion and upset, and this makes the JC a much less nice place to be.

You don't have to have an extensive book of rules that every mod has to study in order to ban someone. All you need, then is to give a user a fair way to defend themselves. Once a user is banned, they have absolutely no freedom to defend themselves.

I liked the idea someone gave of a place for users to publically post if they believe their ban was unfair. Then, all the mods can hear the situation, and decide if it was fair or not. The person might not be unbanned, but the event is wiped from the record.

As you just proved from consulting my record that those records are indeed used, and once it's on there and an event of the past, no one's gonna know the situation, and it's obvious mods judge on past infractions, therefore it's unfair charges go on the record, a users get a lot of flack they don't deserve.


But all this goes back to my original point. The ban is used at this forum like a big gun in the hands of a trigger happy cop. It's the feeling of opressive, the feeling that one false move and you're gone without a fair trial that sometimes makes me feel I'd rather just leave this place. You know, a Star Wars Forum does not have to be so obsessed with banning. Every little offence does not have to be a bannable offence.

In the last year I've been banned three times. Don't bother to consult your records, I'll illustrate my point with these situations.

Ban One: Unaware of the FF rules, I posted the same topic in multiple forums. I was just asking Fan Force for some help, and be realistic, most FF members don't visit the FF Community, so I had to go to each forum seperately.
I was entirely unaware of the rule there, but I was banned without even a warning. It never even occurred to me asking Fan Force for help was bannable offence.


Ban Two: I barely even remember this one. It had something to do with getting into a fight with a user on the forum. Again, no warning, just a ban. Of course, had I been warned, I would have ceased my end of the fight, I would have been happy, the forums would have been flame free again, everyone would have been happy. Absolutely no need for a ban.

Ban Three: I insulted a user because according to my religion, what she was doing was mortally sinful. I shoudln't have been insulting, I was just a bit testy that day. Sure, I should have been warned. I maybe even should have been asked to make a public apology. Both things I would have gladly done, but again, I was banned, this time 24 hours after I even made the comment, and the fight was long since over and I HAD apologized even without being asked. No warning that time, of course, because what would be the point, since the problem had already been resolved without the use of a ban? Oh, but I had to be banned anyway, for some reason entirely unclear to me.


My point is I am not looking to make trouble. I like the JC, it's the only place I even go on the internet. But the mods don't see it that way. I feel very much like the mods are literally looking for reasons to ban not just me, but anyone. Like they jum

 

Just because someone is sorry for what they did doesn't make it go away. I don't see any reason why a user's record should ever go away. mods know people are human, and won't hate you because there's one or two bans on your record.

EDIT: I removed a sarcastic comment about jesus that didn't really have any other purposed than to piss people off.

 

I had no real desire to bring any specific history into this (the mafia reference was a matter of public record from the Mafia thread). Since you mention them, let's look at the three cases that you brought up.

Ban One: Unaware of the FF rules, I posted the same topic in multiple forums. I was just asking Fan Force for some help, and be realistic, most FF members don't visit the FF Community, so I had to go to each forum seperately.
I was entirely unaware of the rule there, but I was banned without even a warning. It never even occurred to me asking Fan Force for help was bannable offence.

That is FanForce. Regardless of any JC ban policies, it would not affect FanFoce. If you have a problem with their procedures, go to their Communications forum.

Ban Two: I barely even remember this one. It had something to do with getting into a fight with a user on the forum. Again, no warning, just a ban. Of course, had I been warned, I would have ceased my end of the fight, I would have been happy, the forums would have been flame free again, everyone would have been happy. Absolutely no need for a ban.

By the statement "the forums would have been flame free again", you at least admit you were flaming. Regardless of provocation, flaming is against the TOS and all users should know that. You aren't responsible for what others say, but you are responsible for your own actions, especially relating to things that are clearly against the TOS.

You had also been warned previously about flaming other users.

If I found a user who had been warned previously about flaming and found them flaming another user, I would ban them immediately. They had been warned, even if it was a month or more before. It is not our responsibility to remind users of the warnings they've received . It is the user's responsibility to heed the warnings. Warnings do not expire.

Ban Three: I insulted a user because according to my religion, what she was doing was mortally sinful. I shoudln't have been insulting, I was just a bit testy that day. Sure, I should have been warned. I maybe even should have been asked to make a public apology. Both things I would have gladly done, but again, I was banned, this time 24 hours after I even made the comment, and the fight was long since over and I HAD apologized even without being asked. No warning that time, of course, because what would be the point, since the problem had already been resolved without the use of a ban? Oh, but I had to be banned anyway, for some reason entirely unclear to me.

You admit that you shouldn't have been insulting. You had been warned previously about flaming (and banned for it as well, as mentioned above). Whether you were "testy" that day or not, you are still responsible for your actions.

Also, there is no "statute of limitations" in the TOS. If you break the rules, you can still be punished for it, regardless of the time since the offense.

In other words, with the exception of the FanForce ban (which has nothing to do with the JC side of the forums), each of the bans was appropriate and you had received warnings previously (albeit not immediately prior).

Kimball Kinnison

EDIT: My point is I am not looking to make trouble. I like the JC, it's the only place I even go on the internet. But the mods don't see it that way. I feel very much like the mods are literally looking for reasons to ban not just me, but anyone. Like they jump at any excuse to ban a user, just because they can.

I can't speak for any othe mods, but I avoid banning people unless I absolutely have to. I know several other mods who hold this same philosophy.

We aren't some power hungry demons who get our kicks out of banning people. It's really a hassle to ban people. Not only do you need to ban them, but you have to watch for their unban requests, respond to them (which can be difficult depending on the request), and make sure you are online to unban them. And that's not counting anyone else caught by an accidental IP ban. Bannings only add