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Lit Barriss Offee

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Kablob, Sep 21, 2014.

  1. GenOochy

    GenOochy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Culturally-coded just means that because of the way a character is appears, acts, or is portrayed they maybe perceived by the viewer as representative of a culture even if that was not the intention of the author, or explicitly stated by the content creators.
     
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  2. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    It's funny that Traviss was never critical of the Sith. They were the ones that ordered the creation of the army. The Republic Senate authorizes the use of the army, which the Jedi agree to command in their name. But the creation of the clones was a Sith plot, not a Jedi one. The Sith are the true villains here. The Jedi were just deceived by a lie, like the rest of the Galaxy.
     
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  3. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 10, 2005
    Well, as long as the thread is being brought back from the beyond....

    This turned out to be quite the ironic hope, given the Last Jedi, didn't it?
     
  4. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    And then those things become sort of intertwined and can influence story.

    Here's an article on Queer-Coding in Disney films.
     
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  5. GenOochy

    GenOochy Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 8, 2003
    Read the whole thread this morning before reviving and I chuckled darkly at this...
     
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  6. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 29, 2003
    I saw this thread come up and I almost had a heart attack. Eeek. Clearly I'm not ready for her to come back. I know it's going to be awful when it does.

    I was going to write something long and well-thought but erased it after the first paragraph because I'm just... bleh... about this situation. I know, people say "it's just a cartoon!" But I've been a fan of that character and had this darned screen name for over half my life. Doesn't that count for something?

    I've asked myself that a lot over the years. I guess in order to boost Ahsoka to divine light side power status, there had to be a sacrifice. I think the intent was that we feel the betrayal as hard as Ahsoka did. Except rather than betrayal, it stank more of bad writing and a desperate gamble for the most unexpected plot twist they could develop, even if it made no sense.
     
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  7. Maythe14thBeWithYou

    Maythe14thBeWithYou Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 26, 2014
    I'd like to see Bariss come back, not only her motivations explained at that point but return as anti-hero type.
     
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  8. starfish

    starfish Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 9, 2003
    It’s been a couple years since I read through the DH clone wars comics run, but I remember liking Bariss in those. Not that she featured in very many issues but still.
     
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  9. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    I could only really see her as an Inquisitor provided she somehow escaped Order 66 and the following purges by Inquisitors and Vader which seems pretty unlikely at this point.
     
  10. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    I don't really buy her as an inquisitor. Honestly given her morals I would assume that she would be a Saw level extremist if she survived
     
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  11. GenOochy

    GenOochy Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 8, 2003
    Given they (well, Tarkin) were pushing for the death penalty for Ahsoka, I figured the same would have been the case for Barriss, even without Order 66. Though the issue of capital punishment in the Old Republic was not really explored much.
     
  12. chris1982

    chris1982 Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 17, 2015
    I still wish Barriss was 7th sister. Would A) have made 7th sister a way more interesting and less bland character and B) gave closure to Barriss's somewhat open story line from TCW.
     
  13. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    Master Dibbs who is a precursor to Barriss, had turned out to become an Inquisitor , as did one of the Temple Guards surrounding Ahsoka( or even Barriss) who ended up becoming the Grand Inquisitor.

    So Barriss being sparred by Sidious and becoming a servant of the Sith as an Inquisitor is not at all far-fetched, Barriss also expressed her liking the red blades .
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  14. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 29, 2012
    Speaking of Dibbs and Barriss... why is it that Jedi conscientious objectors seem to always be treated as darksider material? It's not like there aren't legitimate reasons to be against the clone army and the responsibility to lead it...
     
  15. GenOochy

    GenOochy Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 8, 2003
    Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Barriss and the other objectors were right, at least philosophically, that the Jedi were immoral to take and lead a slave army for the purpose of forcing planets to stay in the Republic.

    There's probably a bigger philosophical point here about the portrayal of conscientious objectors in mass media and what that says about the culture that spawns it. Why are those who oppose something that is clearly wrong, but is just accepted as okay, are seen as the same as the enemy...but I don't know if we want to have that conversation here.
     
  16. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 29, 2012
    Without drawing too much real-life parallels, it's just that I wish we'd seen Jedi who just said "Nope" and walked away.
     
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  17. GenOochy

    GenOochy Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 8, 2003
    Honestly, I think that's what made Ahsoka Tano such a great character. She saw what the Jedi and Republic had become, she refused to accept their halfhearted apologies after they scapegoated her, and she walked away with her dignity in tact and went on to be what a Jedi ideally should be.
     
  18. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 29, 2012
    In Legends, there used to be a thing called the Right of Denial, which some Jedi actually invoked. And then of course there was that group of dissidents (Sian Jeisel, K'Kruhk, Rhad Tarn and Mira) that were deceived by Sora Bulq.
     
  19. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Have you ever heard the legend of Jedi Master Kirak In'fila?
     
  20. GenOochy

    GenOochy Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 8, 2003
    I feel like that's not the sort of story the Jedi would tell you.
     
  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The Databank does pin some of the blame on Sifo-Dyas, rather than reserving it all for Dooku. Same with the Legendsverse for that matter - Labyrinth of Evil confirmed Sifo-Dyas was at least involved before Dooku killed him and took over.

    If the Jedi believed Sifo-Dyas was involved, that might have been why they didn't object too much.

    The using of the army was what was important to assessing the Jedi's moral code though, not the making of it - which was done by one guy, not a whole order of people.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  22. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    We know what happened with Sifo, Tyranus and Kamino. Sifo foresaw the coming war and knew that the Republic would need an army. He contacted the Kaminoans, but that's where his role in the story ended, as Tyranus had him killed. Tyranus then contacted the Kaminoans in Sifo's name and took over the project from there. So I suppose the idea of creating an army of biological slaves to serve as soldiers was approved by a Jedi Master at the beginning, and the Jedi Council had no issue using them in battle. But I will note that the Jedi treated their clones with respect and valued their lives. They did not treat them as unthinking droids.

    In Canon, the clones did have a choice to desert. We even saw one do it successfully and start a new, free life for himself. The only time the clones had no real choice was when their biochips forced them to execute Order 66. Which was purely a Sith invention, designed to wipe out the Jedi. The only Jedi that mistreated their clones were Darksiders like Pong Krell.
     
  23. TheCloneWarsForever

    TheCloneWarsForever Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 24, 2018
    Cut Lawquane was not given a "choice" to leave, he escaped. Rex chose to disobey his own mandate and not narc on him, but Rex does not represent the Jedi.
     
  24. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    I find it hard to believe that any Jedi would have turned Cut in, had they discovered him. The Grand Master himself considered the clones individuals and told them they had free will.

    My overall point is that the Jedi treated the clones very well. They were not villains in the Clone Wars, regardless of what Barriss spouted in the High Courts. That spot is occupied firmly by the Sith.

    Yoda saw each of the clones as individuals and counseled them on how to grow as people.

    Plo Koon valued the lives of each and every one of his men. He acted as a mentor and leader to them and risked his own life to save them on more than one occasion.

    Shaak Ti went out of her way to spare Fives' life on numerous occasions. She kept trying to save him and nearly succeeded.

    Anakin saw the clones as his friends and was visibly distressed when Commander Ponds was killed.

    Obi-Wan was saddened when any of his troops were killed.

    The Jedi treated the clones as best as they could given that they were at war. The Sith were the ones who used the clones as pawns and threw their lives away, stripping away their free will.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  25. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    Agreed. I think with the Jedi it was more... not willful ignorance exactly but sorta like they had been backed to a wall and so they just put aside the implications of the clone army. If a clone asked to leave I assume they would let them, but they could not afford to attempt to make the clones understand that their loyalty i only due to social programming, which I bet they would have done if there was not a war