Basher Sanctuary Episode 4: A New Forum

Why does it have to matter to them? It's not like they HAVE to post in this glorious thread.

 

Hello...I posted in the old sanctuary once or twice many moons ago, and have been a long time lurker, so I thought now I'd introduce myself and maybe post randomly in the sparkling new sanctuary. I'm Mandalay, I love Star Wars A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, hate TPM and AOTC with a passion and ROTJ with a less amount of passion...mainly because it has Luke in it...ANH is my favorite though, I love every frame of it and how it can be appreciated on so many different levels. I liked what a previous poster said about the mythology being more subtle in the OT and "in-your-face" in the PT. The atmosphere in ANH especially is charming and escapist with a subtle element of mythology woven through, as well as a nostalgia for an older time. I'm trying not to let the images of the PT ruin the nostalgia we're supposed to feel for this time in the OT ^_^

I'm a 20 year old college student at ASU, my picture's in my profile thingy. Um...so yeah. Hi.

The prequels suck!!!

 

I know before I even write this that none of you will agree with me, but here goes....what if Lucas remaked the OT? I'm not saying this because I think the PT is better than the OT, because it quite clearly is not.

First of all, if Lucas intends his audience to watch the PT first and then the OT, it's going to be quite jarring to the audience to see the difference in styles. Because of the CGI Lucas has at his disposal with the PT he's been able to create scenery and worlds he was not able to do with the OT. I think this difference is quite obvious when we visit places in the PT but only hear about them in the OT, the senate for example.

Secondly I would mean that Lucas could stop messing around with the OT. If he wants Greedo to shoot first, make Yoda computer animated, add a whole host of fart jokes then fine, put it in the remake. This would mean that all the "Lucas is holier than thou" fans would be happy that Lucas is finally able to complete his "vision" and the fans of the original triology will be happy because their version will remain unscathed.

It's just a thought I had and I've not even convinced myself but I wanted to bring it up.

 

I almost 'tore down the pillars of heaven' when I saw The Santuary in TPM was closed. Then I saw strilos nice note

Nice new house, I'm gonna miss the old one through.

In this new enviroment we're gonna have a lot of new people coming in, so let's show them the cream of bashing etiqutte and rational in our discussion.
Converts await, so why doesn't everyone from the old Sanctuary do a little paragraph on their bashing stance? Hate TPM but like AOTC ? hATE tpm AND aotc etc
And briefly why.

I'd go first but I'm at work and boss is watching me !
For now:

SHB JR
Crazy old man and SW Fundamentalist

ANH - Loves it- the first and most magical
ESB- Loves it- the most intense
ROTJ- Loves it- the most fuilfiling

TPM- Dislikes it immensely- biggest waste of potential ever
AOTC- Can stomach it..just. An improvement over TPM but still nowhere near the OT. It's not really a SW movie.

Pet likes: Luke
The O-OT
Rational, respectful arguement and discussion, even if I disagree


Pet Hates : Poor dialogue in the PT
EU
Midi clorians
Jar Jar
Rick Macullum
Unrational gushing

SHB JR

 

Been a Star Wars fan since '82.
Became utterly obsessed 'round '95-'96 with the promise of Special Editions.
Didn't find the editions very special.
My fandom began to wane.
TPM: Seen it 100+ times, in the hope that it will somehow magically improve. It doesn't. I still can't believe this is what we got.
AOTC: Even worse. One of the few cultural achievements of our time that I just hate.
EPIII: Based on spoilers, this sounds like it will be at least as bad as AOTC.

SW: Brilliantly fun movie. 10/10.
ESB: Brilliant movie. 10/10
ROTJ: Flawed movie about my favorite characters. Scenes vary from 1 - 10 hehe.

LOTR trilogy: I love FOTR, have begun to appreciate TTT and like ROTK a lot.

"A song of ice and fire" series of books by George RR Martin ("A Game of Thrones", "A Clash of Kings", "A Storm of Swords"): Superb fantastorical and finally something that can replace my former Star Wars obsessiveness.

Have I forgotten anything? Oh yeah, I bash hard baby!
Edit:
Oh, and I feel the gushers are making up points to defend the prequels just for the sake of defending these films, and believe that they actually have realized that YES, the prequels suck mind-blowingly hard. But they dare not face it

strilo edit: Discussing the posters is still against the rules...

 

That's what I'm talkin' about! ^^^
Pet Likes/Hates Rees Yees ?

 

Wow, I joined and suddenly the whole place starts anew...
Well, it's a bright new place, cool and relaxed new rules and, hopefully, many new members to look forward to!

This little profile-idea is nice!
Let's see:
I'm RahrKast from Germany, 21 years old. I had been an extreme SW-Fan up until I discovered the world of Tolkien (and not just the movies).
Since then, I can't stand the PT, the Special Editions and quite a bit of the EU...
And I joined the merry women and men of the Sanctuary just yesterday.

Pet likes: Lightsabers and duels
Cool starships
John Williams music
Everything Tolkien
Nice and civil basher- and gusherdom

Pet dislikes: Too much childishness in serious scenes ( like the Battle of Naboo or the Arena battle)
Jar Jerk
Blind and "in-denial" gushing
The new scream of Luke on Cloud City

Let's rock this place, people!

 

Pizza-the-Hutt
A fan but not fanatical

ANH - It's a very good film and establishes characters and their relationships extrememly well
ESB- The best of the lot in everyway, only flaws I could name would be very small and personal
ROTJ- Has some of the best moments of the OT but also some of the worst

TPM- Don't like it. It's quite simply not a good film. It could have been so good as well.
AOTC- It's better than TPM in my opinion and personally I don't mind seeing Yoda fight. Dialogue still poor and it doesn't really have the feel of a Star Wars film.

Pet likes:
Han - best character, best actor
The political side of the PT
Character development in the OT
How quotable the OT is
OT in general

Pet Hates :
Poor dialogue in the PT - "Are you an angel" makes me want to be physically sick
Midiclorians - just why?! I can't believe there's anyone out there who before PT wanted a scientific explanation of the force
Jar Jar - you know why
Basher bashing

 

PET LIKES:

"A Song of Ice and Fire", the book series by George R.R. Martin. Read it and literally weep as all other franchises smolder into emptiness

Metal! My blood is suffused with metal; specific bands I love are Opeth, My Dying Bride, Edge of Sanity, Morbid Angel, and many many more. I play the guitar myself as well as sing in metal bands. \m/

Roleplaying Games: I like to be a gamemaster using the 'The Riddle of Steel' RPG. Used to play the Star Wars RPG too. Also love the 'A Game of Thrones' card & board games.

The LOTR films and books.

PET DISLIKES:

The prequels. George Lucas. Rick McCallum. Jar Jar Binks. "special" additions. money. CGI abuse. People who base their arguments on knowledge they do not possess. Porridge. Mathematics.

that's about it

 

Friends...I feel like Captain Kirk and crew at the end of Star Trek 4, as they're being delivered to their new ship.

That moment of fear and uncertainty as I noticed the Sanctuary had been locked. And then, REVELATION, a new Sanctuary, bolder, brighter, more powerul that ever before!!

We truly have a home and a community based more on the people who have kept this thread alive for years, than a single, dismal movie.

I expect my post count to rise to never before seen heights now that we can discuss other, non-TPM related matters.

We are home!

 

Well, I've been around star wars since I was a wee kid back in the 70s. Went to the first three films with my dad (talk about a bonding experience), had all the toys, all the halloween costumes, etc. When the folks got a laserdisc player, first thing we did was go buy the 3 OT films (and thank jebus we did, 'cause until the unspoilt DVDs come out, those babies are the only digital non-Greedo-shoots-first ones I've seen. Money in the bank).
My fandom continued along in a reverent but not overly insane fashion all the way through college. It was great.. lines from Star Wars could be used with anyone from a particular range of years just like a second language. Anyone who didn't like Star Wars or hadn't seen it was looked at askance, as they were clearly some sort of 5th column Manchurian candidate unschooled in proper American culture.

Then the extended versions hit the theater while I was in college. The build up was intense. The result was.. mixed. The CGI added little (and the films were nearly perfect to begin with) and often took away a whole lot (the Greedo shooting first thing was just awful).

But we had faith. I even joined the JCF back in '99 because the anticipation for the PT was so intense. Then...TPM. I went on a double date with a buddy of mine and our girlfriends on opening night. The crowd was enthusiastic and playful. Free donuts were passed up and down the lines. There were lightsaber fights in the lobby. Then, rather suddenly, there was Jar Jar. And midichlorians. And Anakin/Jesus. And Yippiee. And Jar Jar. And accidentally somehow spinning into the hold of a battleship through an open hangar door and accidentally shooting torpedoes down a hallway to hit a power generator that someone just put out in the open for no apparent reason. And Jar Jar. After the film, all four of us headed right to a bar and began drinking heavily. It only helped a little.

Years passed. The flaws in TPM became more and more apparent, rather than buried under a haze of forgetfulness. Eventually AotC came out. I heard little good about it. I had an awkward conversation with another friend who had just seen it that ended with "[long pause] ... well, Yoda does do some fighting. That was kinda cool." Eventually I went to see it with my dad and brother and it was...meh. Not even enough there to passionately dislike.

Now, I still find myself hoping that Ep III will be great. It could be. Star Wars could be like a long meal; the last few courses haven't been great, but a fine dessert could still save it all. But we'll see.

Anyway:

ANH: Great film. So many great characters and lines you quickly lose track. One of the most quotable films ever made.
ESB: Nearly perfect. The perfect antidote to the shiny glory of the end of ANH; now our heroes learn the price for their victories.
ROTJ: Extremely good. Massive fleet battles, closure for our heroes. The Ewoks are a bit iffy but hey, they're real midgets and that's good enough for me.
TPM: Bad. Real bad. Physical comedy telegraphed miles in advance (every single time Jar Jar lurches into frame, he does something stupid. You may not know in advance what that is, but you know he will do _something_. I always find myself waiting for him to get it over with so we can get on with things). Bizarre plot that penalizes AotC too (Why Naboo? Who cares about this planet? Why blockade it? Its only natural resources are Gungans! Are you just trying to keep them from spreading off planet?), terrible acting (Jake Lloyd will never live it down). All fighting now occurs against robots (and CGI ones at that) which makes it hard to care about any of it. Let's all fall for the Amidala/Handmaiden switcheroo 1000 times (this happens in AOTC too!)
AOTC: Oddly bland. Some attempts at riveting dialogue or plot developments that still fall flat. Compare scene of Anakin losing hand to Dooku to scene of Luke losing hand to Vader. Opposite ends of the spectrum in emotional intensity. Coruscant feels like NYC with flying cars. Creepy Boba-cl

 

Why Naboo? Who cares about this planet? Why blockade it? Its only natural resources are Gungans! Are you just trying to keep them from spreading off planet?

Although that would be a good enough reason for me, I think the idea is that Sidous persuaded the Trade Federation to block Naboo so that as its senator he would get sympathy in the election for chancellor. Could have been explained better both by me and George Lucas.

 

I existed primarily in lurker mode over in the old Sanctuary... but no more. I will reveal myself in my full basher glory in this new place. My anger towards Mr. Lucas knows now bounds. What he has offered up as new Star Wars film are not worthy to bear the name, in my opinion. As the days go by, I will come here to vent my frustrations and add my voice to the legions of betrayed Star Wars fans...

Before I go, another HUGE fan... no, DISCIPLE of George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. Every basher should read this, for its brilliance is a great tonic for Prequel disillusionment....

 

"George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series."

Alright, alright. Somebody tell me what the blasted book is about already. Then I'll read it!

;-)

 

ANH: The greatest movie ever made
ESB: Fine flick which took some gutsy risks, but doesn't really get going till Cloud City
ROTJ: Fine flick, but doesn't really get going until Endor and Death Star, where it turns into the best stuff of the saga. Also, contains Salacious Crumb.
TPM: Problematic, I'll grant, but overall underrated; nonetheless the worst entry in the saga
AOTC: The best since the original

SEs: Prefer them almost unilaterally

EU: Allllll over the map on this one, catch me on a title-by-title basis


LOTR BOOKS: About as good as they come
FOTR MOVIE: A perfect film
T2T MOVIE: A problematic movie, disappointed me just as much as TPM
ROTK MOVIE: Better, fine entertainment, but they botched the climax


Pet likes:
Salacious Crumb
Exploitation of the saga's womenfolk to play to the fourteen-year-old boys of the audience
Banning people
Nifty explosions
Silly hats


Pet hates:
People who mention LOTR for no reason
People who don't know what McCallum's job description is
People who use the word 'dark' sixteen times a post
People who don't read the rules in the first post of the Sanctuary before coming in to voice their opinions on the state of this thread
Muppets
Matte lines
Misconceptions about midi-chlorians
That guy who sits next to me in English class...


... okay, we're getting a little far from SW here.


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

R2-12point:

Thirty two years old. Long time fan. Former filmmaker, current freelance writer. Incurable fan scripter (and rescripter). Posts only a little, but almost always at great length. Canadian. Scared by religious people and flag wavers. Nice brown eyes. Good curveball, nice changeup, fields a little, hits well to the opposite field, very little power.

What he says about SW:

"I float in and out on these SW boards, but I always like to check on what's going on in the Sanctuary. Still, I don't post here too much. Sometimes things get a little TOO vitriolic. Or, alternatively, a little too praise-happy for modern entertainment films I feel are no better, sometimes worse, than the sloppy, sloppy prequels.

My mindset about SW is this: I think that in the seventies GL was working at genius level (and I don't break out that word very often, especially not for the hacks it's commonly applied to these days). I think ANH and Empire are marvels of storytelling economy, art design, concept, editing, and fantastic vision. Jedi was the work of a tired mind shifting its priorities.

In the interim between 83 and 97, I hardly even thought about SW. I don't know squat about what is called "EU". I wouldn't read a SW novel if you paid me. I haven't looked at any comic book since the industry went nuts. All I had to keep my memory alive were a few video games and my well worn OT tapes.

The Special Editions, while I loathe every change made in the Tatooine sequence of ANH, did not and do not bother me nearly so much as they do others here. In fact, to me the most vexing and perplexing about thing about them is what WASN'T changed.

Menace, I thought, was a vaguely built, kiddie-oriented flick. Jar Jar was weak, but I save my particular distaste for the "smalls" that ruin the action scenes (the pod announcer, the kid hamming it up in the space battle). Still, I was very pleased that GL did not alter his nuts and bolts style, nor indulge in too much "fan-boy pleasing sturm and drang". I could see what GL was trying to do. He didn't succeed, but I appreciated the effort.

When the Clones screenplay was released on the Internet I was horrified by its meandering nonsense, but hopeful that it had been radically changed in the interim. I went to see the movie cautiously optimistic, and walked out during the Yoda fight. I have since mellowed on the film, but it is a tremendously flabby film, piled high with self-reference, cliche, and uninspired theft. Most unforgiveable, it is a rough draft. No screenwriter or producer who's worked as long in the industry as GL has could fail to recognize it as anything resembling a complete, finished script. Countless lines, subplots, and whole scenes need condensing or outright excising.

As it stands, I think GL is most concerned with a) occupying his time, b) playing with film technology, c) making money, and d) expanding on his "themes". In that order. And for none of that do I blame him, and I don't like it when others do. But how he could have such little respect for his fans and his own work of art as to NOT hire someone to fill in with the day to day scripting and filmmaking, which he apparently finds too taxing, is heartbreaking to me.

What Menace and Clones COULD'VE been actually HAUNTS MY WAKING HOURS. I have reworked them in my mind, and occasionally in print, a thousand times. I walk sometimes with the soundtracks on my walkman and can easily envision the masterworks they might have been. Not because I know anything about filmmaking than GL doesn't, but because I love SW more.

And, oh, what's with the fart, poo, and burp jokes anyway?

 

Sweet Mother. Don't get me started. I could write a book. I'll bash everything from VHS to TPM.

"Alert my stardestroyer to prepare for my arrival". Why George Why? WTF were you thinging? You could have at least used James Earl Jones' voice here. Instead, you used someone with a silly souther drawl that sounds HORRIBLE. And, "BRING MY SHUTTLE" is just so much more powerful... Vader sounds so p***ed.

I just recently acquired a copy of the definitive edition "DVD" original trilogy - made from the laserdisc set. I laughed meniacally when watching the OT on DVD! Only reason I went this route was because I was tired of flipping my laserdiscs! And, now to bash VHS - it just wears out and the sound / picture quality degrades. the DVD looks great by the way!

OT - all three movies. The greatest. No others comapare.
OT special ed. Cacca - don't fix something that ain't broke.

The PT - aspects I like. Aspects I hate.

Oh there's so much more to bash and so little time!!!

 

Psssssssst to Lord_Claw_Slaw: It was James Earl Jones who did that.

 

Yep, it's a JEJ line recorded at the time of ANH. An OT film, thank you very much. Hee-hee-hee.

Hmm, I wonder if the change made Binary like ESB more... it's a little piece of "the 1977 Star Wars film"* brought along in there.


* Can you PLEASE find an abbreviation? "1977SWF" perhaps? "SW77"? You're killin' the bandwidth here!



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

You got to be kidding! That's JEJ? OK - then. Well, I'll just bash changing the line then! hehe

 

I forgot some pet likes and dislikes.

PET LIKES;

The full colour palette used in a movie.
Sensible, severe editing.
Hollywood movies from the thirties through fifties.
Favorite snack for watching flicks: Pringles.

PET DISLIKES:

Have to go with Adam: use of the work "dark" (especially to mean just "violent" or "downbeat").
Quirky, indulgently reflexive or ornate "independent films".
Modern media over-hype.
DVD extras.

 

I'm a diehard O-OT Star Wars fan. Saw it in the fall of '77. I loved the movie so much even saw it in the basement of a run-down community center when it was projected on a bare wall at half the size it should've been (this must've been about '79)... it wasn't the best of conditions, but I still loved that damn movie!

The Prequels are pretenders to what was and what could've been. I still hold out hope for Episode III, but it's a stringy hope...

Welcome, Rahrkast. Glad you came out of the closet.

And welcome, MandalayLeigh, too. Glad to have you here.

 

A new Basher's Sanctuary?! A surprise to be sure, but hopefully a welcome one.
I'm glad we don't have that 'keep it on the topic of TPM' stuff anymore. That didn't work, but I think this is the first time I've posted anything in the SW Community forum. I never visit the place.

I guess I have to write a profile too. I'll do that later.

The title of this thread is not very good btw. It should be called 'Attack of the Basher's Sanctuary', or 'A Very Basher Sanctuary', or 'The Basher's Sanctuary: Ultimate Edition', or maybe even 'Basher Caravan Of Courage'

Most unforgiveable, it is a rough draft. No screenwriter or producer who's worked as long in the industry as GL has could fail to recognize it as anything resembling a complete, finished script. Countless lines, subplots, and whole scenes need condensing or outright excising.
- Agreed 100%

I know before I even write this that none of you will agree with me, but here goes....what if Lucas remaked the OT?
- I agree with you. I think he should remake the OT to fit with the PT (because they just don't fit together now) and have it full with nice, shiny, new digital effects. Then he can give us the original OT without all those 'upgrades'.

Now for some responses to what was said in the previous sanctuary in the TPM forum:

>>>>The Yoda fight... Seriously, when I saw it a few people laughed a bit, because it was so silly.

Funny- I laughed at it because I loved it. Also, it was the first and only time I've seen a film in the cinema where the audience applauded (except for when I saw it again a couple of days later.) That just doesn't happen in England very often. (Mind you, I don't go tto eh cinema very often.)
Still, it's interesting that people were doing the same thing for a different reason, from your point of view...

- Oh, I'm pretty sure it wasn't just my point of view. It's not like people were laughing in joy and applauding. Only some uneasy giggling and shaking of heads.
Personally I just sat there frozen in my seat, hoping my eyes wouldn't bleed
Maybe if there had been more people in the audiance there would have been some very positive reactions. I'm glad that didn't happen. I think I would have walked out if people had jumped up and applauded.
I've learned to laugh at the Yoda fight since then. It's funny. The last time I watched it, many months ago, I simply told myself that this was not really part of the star wars story , but that it was only a joke - an over the top visual gag to end a series of visual climaxes that started 20 minutes earlier.


He just found that shot in some old war movie, put it in his animatic, and handed it off to effects guys to make it. Then he either approved it, or sent it back. Then 20 years later he fixed it with magic CG toys.
- He didn't fix it, he updated it. You can't fix something that isn't broken.

It is partly because of advances Lucas has helped spearhead that allow me to be a filmmaker today! Nonlinear editing at consumer prices, without which I could never have put together my first flicks? The push for digital video so that everyone can make a professional-looking-movie?
- I'm sure you're not the only person who wanted to become a filmmaker after seeing Star Wars, SE or Original. I think the movie industry is full with guys who wanted to 'do that'. And I think that's great.
And all those new toys are great, but surely these advances would have arrived without Lucas sooner or later?
Don't get me wrong here, I respect what he's done, and doing, although his over-hyping of digital film and cinema was annoying, but I'm not so sure uncle George is looking out for you. I get tired when he's going on about all the new inventions that make filmmaking life easier. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope so - I don't know the guy -, but sometimes it looks as if it's more of an ego thing for Lucas.

Remember, those tools only help you to make the movie, they don't make the movie

So Adam, what is 'Saving Star Wars' about? And what is David Prowse

 

Glorian , this spoiler-free review of A Game of Thrones , the first book in the series, might serve to wet your appetite. It is truly a series to avoid spoilers for by the way.

 

Well, the JEJ line was indeed filmed for ANH, but it was also CUT. Basically, George was digging through the garbage of ANH remnants and cast-offs to find something to change for the sake of... well, I'm still not sure really why all those garbage takes were thrown into ESBSE. A little ANH (JEJ line) here, a little ROTJ (Emperor's scream, DSII footage) there... maybe Lucas felt ESB didn't have enough of his stamp on it? What rubbish.

Literally!