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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Basher Sanctuary Episode 4: A New Forum

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Darth-Stryphe, Apr 14, 2004.

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  1. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    No just the films are gone...

    The films are SW. Everything else (TV shows included) is... just something else.


    Well, I mentioned that I feel depressed today. I think that it is, in part, because I saw the last SW film. But for me Stryphe, I have come to terms with SW ending a long time ago.

    Then now I have to ask a question I thought I would never ask: why do you linger on here, in darkness and in doubt, under the fader banners of the JC?


    Star Wars isn't over unless you, individually, have finally had enough. Everything in Lucas's history suggests he will continue to put out TV shows and cartoons and, eventually, Episodes VII-IX.

    There won't be a sequel trilogy. If I were betting man, I would wager well on that. GL has been consistant on some things, saying that he would not do a ST is one of them. For a brief time while working on Empire, he thought it would be a good idea. But he recanted that before working on ROTJ and never went back on that word. People remember his articule from 1980 and think because he has not repeated it, he is a liar. No, that is not so.


    Bear in mind that we're not supposed to be actually discussing the film itself in this thread, and it's not exactly a magnet for positivity... But so long as you've got the kind of drive by gusher trolls who visited a page or two ago, I don't think the negativity is going to go anywhere...

    The first paragraph I typed was directed at that situation. I understand that. Yet what I don't understand is why that went on for pages and I never got one PM about it. That aside, what I found unsettling is how this thread blows off the end of SW as if it were nothing. If it were merely the end of the PT, I could understand, but when I gave ROTS a roaring round of applause Thusday morning, it wasn't for ROTS or the PT or not even really the OT, it was for 28 years of SW. Isn't that worth a moment's pause? Even this place and the friend I and many have made here is a product of these 28 years. And it is worth not a moment's faunt reflection? Is that is all that is in us now, is to bash and nothing more? I admit, I had a basher knee jerk reaction walking out of ROTS, but before I got to the keyboard of my computer, I put things into perspective and gave it its due.

    As to SW's future at this point, EU isn't the heart and soul of SW. There will always be a fanbase and thus always something to market to, and something on the shelf, but with the movies thus goes most of SW. We live in a fickle world, and one that has apparently forgotten the lesson of 1983. No, this is it, this is the end.


    Today, six years on, I'm a bit older, a fair bit wiser, but I'm honestly no nearer understanding the mentality of someone who hated 1&2, but rushed out to see Episode III as soon as it's released only to exaplain at great length to the internet exactly why they hated the film, hate the makers of the film and despise anyone who disagrees with their opinion.

    In the end, neither do I. I thought I did, but I don't. I'll go see ROTS again and undoubtedly like it. I can't wait for the fan-edit of this film, because with a good fan edit, this film could be OT quality. I suppose because I want a different cut of this that doesn't jive with GL's intended vision, that still makes me a basher. People will still label me thus, and this sad endless cycle of fan-bashing will go on and on.


    No new Star Wars movies? Good. I wish the entire STAR WARS JUGGERNAUT would grind to a halt. No more EU, no TV shows, etc. I wish the plug would be pulled.

    It will. My prediction, 3 to 5 years and it will all be gone. I am ready. For me, it is over, but not gone.
     
  2. TrueJedi

    TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi:

    Almost every line of dialogue that Owen has with Luke or Beru talks about "Luke's father."

    Yes, and so what? I don't get your point.


    Implies a much stronger relationship than we were shown in AOTC.

    And you think what we saw in AOTC encompasses the entire relationship between Anakin and Owen? Are you sure they never saw each other again or had any other conversations? Either way, nothing in the OT conversation you posted shows that their relationship wasn't as strong as necessary to match what we saw in the respective films.

     
  3. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003

    Hey Onnie,
    where you been ?

    g

     
  4. JenX

    JenX Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Blue_Jedi33

    I was watching this round for bad acting too, I don't know what people are talking about.

    It's like people predispose themselves that it must have bad acting. Sure there were corny lines too, but thats just SW.

    Well I guess "Your focus determines your reality"


    Hee. I remember when I first came here, a poster called...Gomez or something, anyway he used pretty much that exact line on me when I talked about TPM. That argument is as laughable now as it was then. It's all subjectve Blue Jedi. I'm glad you liked it, but please don't try and sell that "you don't like it cos you chose not to like it" baloney.


    Darth-Stryphe

    That aside, what I found unsettling is how this thread blows off the end of SW as if it were nothing.

    I haven't done that yet...but I might as well now. I couldn't care less about the end of SW, simply because SW ended about a year before I was even born. The two prequels that I've seen are rubbish and, judging by the script, ROTS may well be the worst of the bunch in some ways. Do you honestly expect me to be upset because GL has decided not to make any more SW films??? After the utter bilge he has produced over the last six years? Seriously?

    I'll save my tears for the time when GL decides to revisit the OT again and inflict some more "improvements" on it.



     
  5. Darthritis

    Darthritis Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 1999
    Hey Bashers,

    I'm one of the originals from back when we were called Bashieres and had to post our commentary on clay tablets dried in the sun. Just wanted to say Howdy to all the old school b-dizzles hereabouts.

    I haven't seen Sith, and I'm not really sure if I intend too. Some of my friends (including some of the original bashers) loved it, others despised it. I for one find myself feeling indifferent. And I still haven't seen it.

    Long live the bash - and keep a Power Converter chilled for me in the lounge.

    'Ritis out.
     
  6. Blue_Jedi33

    Blue_Jedi33 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2003
    JenX

    If the focus is bashing before and after seeing a movie then it is your reality, simple as that.
     
  7. Darthritis

    Darthritis Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 1999
    Not really so simple.

    Before I went in to see Phantom I had heard some rumors of lameness. I said to myself "even if this movie sucks I will enjoy it."

    Two movies later I have reason to doubt wether Sith will be good. Even before I see it. You gotta take all that into account.

    I'm not bashing it before I see it. I'm wondering if I want to get sucked in again and dissapointed. Big difference my friend.
     
  8. JenX

    JenX Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2002
    If the focus is bashing before and after seeing a movie then it is your reality, simple as that.

    You know, there are few things in life more amusing then watching someone try to apply a sloppy line from SW to real life .

    Tell me Blue_Jedi33, do you realise that, according to your philosophy, GL deserves no credit for producing work that is enjoyed by millions of people? Because, according to you, all the work of making SW an enjoyable experience is done by the viewer. If you go in choosing to enjoy it, you will. Likewise, if you decide you are going to dislike it, you will!

    Out of interest, how would this (bizarre) line of reasoning apply to TPM, where I had no preconceived ideas of its likely quality? How would it apply to films that I've thought would suck but have enjoyed?

    And bashing is my reality? My reality consists of nothing but bashing? Errr, what?



    Blue_Jedi33, please go away and rethink/rephrase your point, because using QGJ line in this manner makes you look silly.



     
  9. I_AM_IRON_MAN

    I_AM_IRON_MAN Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Indeed, I went into TPM, literally and sincerely thinking it would be the greatest movie ever. It took me 5 viewings in theatres and about a year to realize that not only was it not just good, not just average, but that it sucked. It sucked.

    I just watched the end of Star Wars and ROTJ to "get ready" for seeing ROTS tomorrow, and it is so sad that, based on what I have read and heard, there is no way ROTS can possibly fill my expectations based on the original movies, in terms of plot.

    Even if it is a good movie in and of itself, it will be bad because of the poor lead of the first two prequel movies, and because of its poor lead in into the original trilogy.

    Also, I remember when the first two movies came out, there was a huge amount of gushing (myself included, though not on these boards). I tell you this - I have seen the original trilogy hundreds of times, and I can still watch it with immense enjoyment, but I don't know if I can ever watch the PT again because on repeated viewings I discovered I don't like them at all and they are terrible (once you get past all of the flash).

    So, since I expect the absolute worse, maybe I will like ROTS, but I'm not holding my breath.
     
  10. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    *has fallen in love with JenX*

    :p
     
  11. Leia's Starboard Hair Bun

    Leia's Starboard Hair Bun Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 1999
    Darthritis! :eek:

    Killer. If you do see ROTS, give us a review. I'm still on the fence too.



    I'd also be game for a D.C. viewing, which may well necessitate a few pints afterwards. I'm assuming everyone (else) is leggy brunette supermodels, of course. Rowr! :)
     
  12. Patrick Russell

    Patrick Russell Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1998
    Quix and Blue Jedi, I'm glad it wasn't just me. I think there's a lot to be said for seeing this thing twice. It seems like this time there's a fairly cohesive, compelling story behind the clutter. Even with all the problems it definitely has, there's enough in there for me to like it.

    Looks like another viewing with another group of friends tomorrow morning for me. IMHO, that will be the real test for me, because by the third time it's getting into that "will it wear well?" zone.
     
  13. hawk

    hawk Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 3, 2000
    Then now I have to ask a question I thought I would never ask: why do you linger on here, in darkness and in doubt, under the fader banners of the JC?

    What I meant was that I have come to terms with the fact that SW will end eventually and so I'm not too sad about it. Perhaps if the PT were better, I'd be choked. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a SW fan and that's why I post on these forums. I like discussing the films - the good and the bad.
     
  14. Darthritis

    Darthritis Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 1999
    Dear Hair bun,

    Bash on my friend :)

    I probably am going to see this movie. After all - how can I not? I saw the Passion of the Christ and Battlefield Earth - so could it really be any worse than those movies? And c'mon. It's Star Wars. Although my friend Aunt Berumeister gave it a very bad review (he really hated it - in fact on my voice mail he sang me the Imperial March using the word "cr@p" for each beat), other Bashers I know (Quaff down Gin for example), seem to have turned right around. So this movie seems like a wild card to me and that's got me curious.

    I will review the living heck out of it if I do see it.

    Iron Man - I saw TPM three times before the suck sank in completely. When I saw clones I actually liked it - my expectations were so low. I then caught it on HBO quite a while later and realized that I had somehow blinded myself to its undeniable suck. I couldn't even watch the whole thing even though it was free tv.
     
  15. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2000
    The best thing about ROTS is that it made me *feel* something other than anger.
     
  16. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    What are you talking about? What suggests to you that they have more history than what we have seen?

    I think Lady Sami covered the points more than adequately.


    But then you said this:

    Yes, and so what? I don't get your point.

    Eh? Are you being serious?


    And you think what we saw in AOTC encompasses the entire relationship between Anakin and Owen?

    Yes. Because that's the only time they ever meet in the prequels. That's like insinuating that Luke spent more time with Ben on the Falcon training with the lightsabre and we just didn't see it...

    Are you sure they never saw each other again or had any other conversations?

    Of course. The proof is right there in AOTC. And Tatooine only appears once in ROTS (and that's not a spoiler - it's been known since the end of AOTC filming).

    Either way, nothing in the OT conversation you posted shows that their relationship wasn't as strong as necessary to match what we saw in the respective films.

    Puhlease... that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Are you trying to qualify for the 'Most Absurd Gusher Explanation' award or something?

    The bottom line is that Owen knows Anakin. But AOTC clearly demonstrates that he couldn't have.

    Three things about Anakin:
    1) He abandoned life on Tatooine.
    2) He shared different ideals than Owen.
    3) He went on an idealistic crusade with ObiWan.

    -- AOTC shows Anakin popping out of nowhere then disappearing again, hardly any option in there for 'just staying here'. You can make the argument that Owen had learnt what happened in TPM from Shmi, but it's both unlikely and implausible that Owen would harbour any feelings of disagreement given that Shmi wanted Anakin to go, and Anakin was a slave. So the question is: where does Owen get this from? And why would he be so hung up about it years later when it concerns a mere step-brother he's only heard about?

    -- How can Owen know he doesn't hold with Anakin's ideals when he barely knows the kid in the first place? This is the real problem with their relationship. Owen says things about Anakin that indicate a relationship between them that is just too strong to be reconciled with their couple of days at most interaction seen in AOTC (much of that time they spent separated as well).

    -- The idealistc crusade? What was idealistic? And what was the crusade about? The Clone Wars hadn't even started before Anakin's second departure from Tatooine, and neither Shmi or Owen have had any knowledge about Anakin's exploits since he jumped on an eopie to leave the first time - so no basis on which to call something a crusade then (unless you strip the word's meaning away). Is this Owen merely being obtuse and/or ObiWan just trying to undermine the foster parent relationship?


    Which brings us to one more thing that could potentially bother me about ROTS. ObiWan supposedly leaves Luke with the Lars so that he can have a nice loving upbringing... so why does he pick grumpy Owen as a foster parent and leave Luke to live a hard life on a desert planet run by gangsters and under the risk of raids by hostile Tuskens? Then when he does pitch up in ANH, the first thing he says is 'ditch the idiots and come with me'. I can tell ROTS is going to irritate me.



     
  17. DaFett

    DaFett Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 14, 2005
    Where and when can bashers post reviews of Episode III? I want to post a lengthy, somewhat carefully written review.
     
  18. hawk

    hawk Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 3, 2000
    Try the official spoiler thead in SW community (here). That's where we all are.
     
  19. a2dmusic

    a2dmusic Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Saw it last night - thought that it was actually pretty OK. Fundamentally flawed (no surprises there), but it had... a spark - it just felt like Star Wars, at least in significant chunks. It was a feeling I haven't had in a long time. A long time. It also managed to have some emotionally effective moments.

    More thoughts in the spoiler thread, but I will say I do think this is the one film in the PT everyone needs to see and make their own mind up upon. It's not up there with the OT, but it's finally a PT film worthy of some ideas and real discussion.
     
  20. Holy_Ben_Kenobi

    Holy_Ben_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Great points, Redxavier!!!

    so no basis on which to call something a crusade then (unless you strip the word's meaning away)

    And this is the thing with words to make the prequels work for some people....and they would work too if "star pilot" means, "he drove around go-carts and accidently flew a ship" or "good man" means "hyperactive little boy," then "crusade" can mean, "he just left."
     
  21. Blue_Jedi33

    Blue_Jedi33 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2003
    JenX

    I am not talking about either TPM or AOTC but rather only ROTS.

    We know that most posters to this thread had no negative baggage going into TPM, and were NOT bashers YET.

    But now we have had 6 years of negativty to build if we let it, creating a very different feel going into ROTS, that much is true.
     
  22. SHB-JR

    SHB-JR Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2000
    So can we have a tally of core bashers who GENERALLY like ROTS and those who don't ?

    Off the very top of my head :

    Like or likish : Ree Yees, SHB JR, Patrick Russel , Shanep, TrueJedi jabbadabbadoo , Lady Sami, whats his name, Huddnel?


    Dislike : Binary_Sunset, JenX, ?

    This is just of the cuff, no one fret that I'm missed ya or put you in the wrong camp- this old man can't operate at high freq anymore :p

    Add to this and make a doesn't like list- just so we can gauge general basher feeling

    SHB JR
    Who waits expectantly

     
  23. a2dmusic

    a2dmusic Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Well, I don't know if I'm "what's his name", but I GENERALLY like it.
     
  24. Draculas_guest

    Draculas_guest Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 15, 2001
    Which brings us to one more thing that could potentially bother me about ROTS. ObiWan supposedly leaves Luke with the Lars so that he can have a nice loving upbringing... so why does he pick grumpy Owen as a foster parent and leave Luke to live a hard life on a desert planet run by gangsters and under the risk of raids by hostile Tuskens? Then when he does pitch up in ANH, the first thing he says is 'ditch the idiots and come with me'. I can tell ROTS is going to irritate me

    That irked me somewhat. From watching ROTS, I have absolutely no idea why Obi-wan gave baby Luke to Owen and Beru. Perhaps thats AOTC's fault for the way it introduced the Lars, but it just didnt seem to fit.


    After mulling things over for the past couple of days, I'm finding there are still many bad moments throughout ROTS, its just that I've been numbed to them from watching TPM and AOTC. As someone pointed out earlier, the first two PT films have lowered expectations so much that ROTS seems like an improvement, but in all honesty I think Star Wars has hit a new low.

    i.e. the Yoda/Palpatine duel. It looks just as ridiculous as the one from AOTC, its just that the impact of seeing Yoda with a lightsaber has lessened since 2002. Had I seen ROTS first, I would've been outraged, but unfortunately, I've become accustomed to the sight of Yoda bouncing around like a piece of flubber, and his duel with Palpatine only caused a minor irritation this time around.
    Other elements like the dialogue and the acting really aren't that much of an improvement over TPM and AOTC, maybe slightly less rubbish perhaps, but I cant see anything thats worth praising.

    ROTS is nothing more than the cinematic equivalent of aspirin. As a movie unto itself, its a vacant, empty, viewing experience, and I honestly found this to be the worst experience of a Star Wars movie I've ever had.
     
  25. a2dmusic

    a2dmusic Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2001
    I honestly found this to be the worst experience of a Star Wars movie I've ever had.

    I guess you can chalk Draculas_guest up in the "dislike" column. :p
     
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