Basher Sanctuary Episode 4: A New Forum

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Darth-Stryphe, Apr 14, 2004.

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  1. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    Put me in the "liked" camp. As I see it there are three plateaus of SW films:

    The Greats:

    ANH, ESB.

    The Good-but-flawed:

    RotJ, RotS

    The Films that don't Exist:

    TPM, AOTC
  2. a2dmusic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2001
    star 3
    Your rankings are like mine ElfStar. While I'd definitely put ROTJ above ROTS, they're definitely closer together than ROTJ is to ESB and ANH and ROTS is to AOTC and TPM.
  3. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    "That aside, what I found unsettling is how this thread blows off the end of SW as if it were nothing."

    I haven't done that yet...but I might as well now. I couldn't care less about the end of SW, simply because SW ended about a year before I was even born...Do you honestly expect me to be upset because GL has decided not to make any more SW films??? After the utter bilge he has produced over the last six years? Seriously?


    If SW is nothing more that a dead piece of pop-culture history to you which faded away before you were even born, and nothing more, then why bother with anything SW, including this thread? I thought people posted in the Basher Sanctuary because SW mattered to them, and despite it all, it was still something that interest you. Even if you didn't like the PT, the fact that it is over I would think would mean something more than "thank goodness!" If you really wanted it to end that bad, you could walk away at anytime. I did that with EU.


    Puhlease... that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Are you trying to qualify for the 'Most Absurd Gusher Explanation' award or something?

    Hey, you want to can the baiting, red?


    Hey guys - just a quick chime until I get back to work and high speed connections - more of Ben's statements are true after seeing ROTS than were true before seeing ROTS, IMHO.

    Ok, love or hate the movie, I cannot agree with that statement... but spoiler policies are still in affect, so I will say no more.


    Well, Stryphe, the Star Wars saga died for me the moment I read one particular Episode III spoiler about two years ago. In and of itself you might say it's not a big deal, but it unequivocally proved to me once and for all that Lucas didn't care about the story or continuity. Therefore, why should I care?

    That was it? Oh, come on, N_A, I've seen all the movies, no spoiler is THAT bad. So the end of 28 years means nothing to you because of one spoiler?? (Now Im curious which one).

    Look, you guys can bash if you want... that hasn't changed. I guess I just don't understand it anymore, or why some of you wouldn't care. **shrugs**
  4. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    You know, I don't really see it as "over." The only thing that's over I suppose is the Prequel trilogy, and I don't see that as anything to be depressed about. The only thing, in my opinion, worth missing is the Classic Trilogy, but those have had over twenty years to settle. The memory stays with us despite Lucas' repeated attempts to bury them; so with the spirit strong, the weakest installments in the can, and a progressive consciousness that allows us to remember the best, there is nothing to be depressed about.
  5. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    Look, you guys can bash if you want... that hasn't changed. I guess I just don't understand it anymore, or why some of you wouldn't care. **shrugs**

    Stryphe, it's interesting to me that you would take that position, as pretty much all of the "gushers" have been saying that very same thing about us "bashers" since the days of TPM and AOTC.

    You should understand exactly why those hardcore bashers continue to post here - they still like talking about the films, even if they have negative things to report on them. This is what this Sanctuary was created for in the first place.

    What seems to be happening here is that ROTS is beginning to divide the bashers (and I can only assume this is happening to the gushers as well). However, from your post above, it seems you are at a loss to explain behavior to which you have been an active participant, and through the creation of this thread, have been a defender of. Where's the mystery?

    Mind you, I'm not trying to flame bait, so please don't take my statements as an affront. I'm just at a loss as to why this whole thing mystifies you.
  6. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Hawk wrote of ROTS: 1. Too much CGI. I know I whine about this all the time but I'm sick of seeing actors standing around a bluescreen. It looks really bad, really, really bad.

    2. Worst music score ever. I'm sure Williams had some great stuff but most of it was bits and pieces chopped into the film. In the OT, the music almost seemed to drive the film. It was a stand out. In ROTS, I can't even hum any of the new music!


    I agree with both points, especially point #1. The bluescreening in ROTS was so obvious so many times that it kept taking me out of the movie. I kept imagining what the "set" (if one can call it that) looked like with all the bluescreens everywhere.


    Stryphe, I am also puzzled by your melancholy. The O-OT still exists (even if not on Lucasfilm-released DVDs) today no less than it did in 1977-1983. The O-OT will still exist long after we are all dead and buried. Star Wars has not ended. The most that can be said is that Lucas is finished making the prequels. That, to me, is not significant to my emotional tranquility. I wouldn't even care if all I had of Star Wars was the original film, and all the rest of the world forgot about Star Wars and all of Star Wars fandom could fit in a single auditorium. Fandom for me isn't about numbers, or big events, or newspaper headlines, or new movies, or etc. It's about a group of people (large or small) who share a love for something (in this case, Star Wars). We can all rest assured that we will have that for the rest of our lives.

    Or consider Tolkien's fans. The good professor has been dead for over 30 years and his works are still going strong. Simply because Tolkien isn't writing any new sagas of Middle-earth doesn't mean that Middle-earth is over with.

    Lastly, why do I stick around and bash? Because Lucas is trying to displace the backstory implied in the OT with the junky story told in the PT. I'm here as a SW fan to insist upon the superiority of the old backstory. Why? Because I'm a fan.
  7. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    Think about all those Ben statements which were previously contradicted, questioned or ruined in the last two Prequels, most of those were bandaided by ROTS - and you only lost one other statement.

  8. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    I was thinking that it's not too late for the real prequels to be made. For me, the one bright spot in the prequels is Ewan McGregor as Obi-wan Kenobi. Everything else is rubbish. That said, Ewan is still too young to play Obi-wan Kenobi. Consider:

    Alec Guinness was 62 years old when SW was filmed in 1976. Luke is 18 years old in SW. That means that, when Luke was born, Kenobi would be 44 years old. Ewan is right now only 34 years old. That gives Lucas 11 years to get it right before shooting starts on a prequel trilogy that displaces the current PT and is properly set to begin about a year after Luke's birth.

    Lucas could take a year off to frolic with nubile supermodels at the Ranch. Then he could spend 10 years loosely overseeing preproduction of the new PT, the real PT. He could hire a scriptwriter and a director to do all the dirty work for him. All he'd have to do are two things:

    1. Hand the scriptwriter a note something along the lines of "The films start one year after Luke's birth. They center on the Jedi fighting the Empire until at last Kenobi is all that's left of the Jedi (while Yoda remains unseen on Dagobah all this time). Now, write three good scripts for that."

    2. Send personal apologies to Ewan McGregor, including all-expense-paid trips to the Ranch to frolic with naked supermodels. Beg and plead with him to agree to go all over the world in 2016 to spend a year reprising his role as Ben Kenobi during the filming of all three prequels at once. No bluescreens or any of that crap. Real actors and real acting and real filmmaking. Apologize to Ewan over and over and reassure him over and over that this time it'll be different. Maybe in ten years he'll be able to forgive Lucas.
  9. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    Just saw "the movie." I was expecting the best of the prequels, but who would've thought, to me this is the WORST of all the SW movies. When can we talk about spoilers in here, because to better understand why I couldn't stand this movie, I'd have to get into the gruesome details. I see that Ceejay has also ranked it dead last.

    I guess this goes against what those people in the 3SA tell me -- to raise my expectations and go in with positive feelings, and stop being so "nitpicky" or "negative." Well, I raised it, just a tad, keeping in mind it was still a prequel film, and I couldn't believe how many things were so "off" or wrong or handled badly in this 2 hour 30 minute nightmare.

    There must've been some bashers in my theater, because after the initial "Whooooo!" at the start, everybody quieted down, with yawns plenty of and watch-checking. There were some laughs (not from me), and there were a couple moments I did kind of like, but they add up to three minutes total.

    My ranking:
    ESB/ANH
    ROTJ


    TPM
    AOTC


    ROTS (to me, it represents everything wrong with moviemaking these days. CGI overload is killing the soul of movies. Give me ROTK over this crap any day)




    Loco for Lucas: "After my second viewing yesterday, I find ROTS making me appreciate TPM more. Not because I found ROTS to be good, I found myself liking it less yesterday, but ROTS made me see the Star Wars feel in TPM. I'll discuss it more indepth on Monday, but it seems to me now that TPM was the only movie in the Prequels that George put a lot of thought into..."

    I agree with that. I don't bump up my rating for TPM, but next to ROTS, I'd take TPM any day. I can't believe I said that.
  10. Juan_Tufte Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 1
    Back when the first reviews for TPM came out in early May of '99, I remember thinking, well the movie might not be that good, but it's NEW! it's Star Wars! it'll definitely be interesting!

    I walked out of that theater on May 20 thinking, well actually, no, it WASN'T that interesting; in fact, it was kind of boring! And kind of lame.

    I saw ROTS about twelve hours ago. Didn't plan on seeing it this weekend, but some friends suckered me into it. I remained mostly spoiler-free. A half-hour, hour into the film, I couldn't believe how BORING it was (worse than TPM!). I kept wishing they'd hurry up to the good stuff, but even the good stuff (the duel, the Jedi purge, etc.) didn't pay off.

    I was so detached from the whole thing. Whoever earlier said the movie was empty and hollow was right on. Maybe it's because I didn't give a rat's rumphole about any of the characters?

    Oh, well, on to Episode VII!
  11. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    The dividing of the sanctuary is at hand?

    I still haven't seen RoTS more than once, but the more I think about it the more it becomes apparent that I was having a SW fever - what with the before-show dramatizations, the midnight opening, the yelling fans, the applause...

    ... I don't think it will be able to hold much longer. Perhaps the best bits (like someone said, progressive memory or something like that)...

    ..in the end, I still dream of a Star Wars prequel trilogy that amazes me AT LEAST as much as ESB did when I first saw it.
  12. Darthritis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    Binary - There will be no new prequels made in 2016. The super volcano under Yellowstone will have destroyed human culture as we know it by then. It's about 50,000 years over due. Of course the rapture will be hitting us a few years before that - but that won't be a problem. No Star Wars fans are going to heaven.

    And to JohnWilliams00:
    CGI overload is killing the soul of movies.

    I have to say I don't think so. I must point to Pixar. They can't seem to make a movie that isn't knocked squarely out of the park. Of course, I don't know if I would classify their movies as CGI overload. CGI yes. OVERLOAD no.

    Movies are stories, and stories are about PEOPLE. Without people - you got no stories.

  13. ShaakRider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2002
    star 2
    I haven't visited these boards for a long time, partly because i realized, the only way i can possibly enjoy Ep3 is not to think about it at all until i see it. So i went in the theatre without thinking of any of the spoilers i've read, and expected it to be a lot better than the previous ones, 'cause everyone told me it was.
    Well...actually i thought it was the weakest of all. I have to watch it at least one more time though. Anakins turn just didn't work for me. Maybe it could have worked, if set up properly in Ep1-2, but it's utterly unbelievable the way it is. The duel was also disappointing. The "jedi purge" too. Since this is a non-spoiler thread, i won't go into details here. OMG, in fact i shouldn't be posting at all, i should study heavily for my exam.
  14. Darth_Sillyname Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    I really need to stop reading all these ROTS reactions and reviews.
    I'll be seeing ROTS in a few days and I really need to clear my mind before I see it.
    I have to try not to think about anything star wars for a few days.

    Btw, my brother (a 'casual', unspoiled fan) told me that he wondered why Lucas can't make any sequels just because Darth Vader died in ROTJ. After all, Vader wasn't in TPM and AOTC.
    So I said that that kid, Anakin, will be Vader.
    He knew that of course, but Anakin is simply not Vader, and he kind of sucked in AOTC anyway. So it wouldn't be a bad thing to make movies without him in it. I had to agree with that :)
    I also had to remind my brother that that little kid in TPM was also named Anakin, and was supposed to be the same kid as in AOTC, only younger.
    My brother: 'but they were totally different! Now I have to watch TPM again!'
    Yep. That's the problem with the 10 year gap between TPM and AOTC. AOTC started the prequels all over again...
  15. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    Well, I've seen ROTS! I...well, I really don't know what to say. On the one hand, I do feel that it is easily the best of the prequels. But at the same time, there's still a lot of stuff that almost makes me feel tempted to rate it lower than AOTC and TPM! :eek:

    Weird indeed, but it was a rather fun movie, so for now, I'll rate it as the best of the PT. So now I will have to go for that second viewing, to get a final verdict!

    Lastly, I just want to say: I hate Padme! This character is jsut...gaaarg, words fail me! I can't say anymore, just that after evaluating all three PT movies, I've come to the conclusion that Padme is the character I hate most, even more than Jar Jar!
  16. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Review by CNN

    WARNING: plot elements are hinted at (not overtly discussed), for those of you interested in reading it.

    The interesting part is that it could have been written by a Sanctuary regular.
  17. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    To the people who have seen it and didn't like it, I can relate even as a semi-gusher. After the midnight showing I felt really lousy and depressed, I was also thinking this is the worst of all the SW movies. Because every other SW movie OT & PT I've left the theatre with a really positive vibe. Even TESB had such a twist, but it wasn't a depressing twist to me at the time.

    But this one when you see if for the first time, can't make you feel good at any level. So you feel, that you liked it the least.
    My brother Green_Jedi33 felt the same way too.

    Then I saw it a second time and it moved up big time, to #1. This movie is like a greek tradgy or a shakespeare tale like Romeo & Juliet. It's not supposed to be fun, and creates emotions that other SW movies never did at least for me.

    I keep saying this, but this movie needs to be seen twice, to fully grasp & absorb it.

    And I am glad some bashers are allowing themselves to enjoy at least 1 SW movie from the PT:)[face_peace]
  18. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5

    Ree - the sanctuary will never die. PT Syndrome is still alive, the OT is still held captive.

    CGI overload is killing the soul of movies.

    And this is why some just won't like it. LSHB, yes, the CGI will still blind you.


    JohnWilliams, I'm not surprised at your review, as the mixing of the music in ROTS is the worst of any movie. The soundtrack, when you listen for it (yes, you have to listen for it) is one of the best. But too often it is absent, or turned down for sound FX, or some random sampling of another movie creeps in.

    Overall, I still like it - love it even, and I think it improves with more viewings.
  19. Green_Jedi33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2004
    star 3
    My brother Green_Jedi33 felt the same way too.


    Well... I was dangerously close to slipping over to basherhood (the darkside of the fans). [face_worried]

    But on the second viewing it IS better!!

    Long live RotS!

    EDIT: BTW, what REALLY irritated me were the scoffers in the theatres. You know, the ones who laugh at innapropriate times.
  20. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    I'm afraid that I've seen it twice, and I disliked it both times. I will admit that on my second viewing it was a tiny little bit better, but that's it.

    I'll be glad when tomorrow gets here so there isn't such a thing as "spoilers" anymore.
  21. Gunrar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    Havn't bashed here in a long time.
    I have to admit, after all the bitterness that filled me shortly after I saw 'Clones' and TPM, I was expecting EP III to be the very worst of the bunch.
    I even became so jaded I told my "spoilerboy" friend that I didn't care if he wanted to spill all the EpIII beans he could get - I didn't care. This coming from me, someone who thinks that spoilers are the very definition of movie sacrilege. Intrestingly enough, though, this made my spoiler friend loose all intrest in blowing the story for me and, last Thursday, I saw the movie completely unspoiled.
    I must say it's a good job I gave up on there being any sort of reconciliation between anything that happened in the PT and anything that comes out of Obi Wan's mouth in the OT.
    Appart from that, I may have to recant my basherism!
    I found the story cohesive and easy to follow (unlike AOTC)
    For ONCE it was great to watch a Star Wars movie that was back to basic Good vs Evil plot.
    And for THE FIRST TIME in PT history I found myself actually being able to identify and even CARE about the characters! :eek:
    This and the fact that the director actually included whole scenes of character reflection, revelation and interaction! :eek: :eek:

    I now consider there to be 2 "before star wars" movies and 4 actual Star Wars Movies.
    And as I start to sound like a complete gusher, another delightful biproduct of EpIII is ROTJ now seems like a much better movie in it's light.

    My own opinion stunns me! :eek:

  22. FuzzyRatt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 3
    I most say, I have seen the end of the two greatest Sci-fi universes in history and it does sadden me. :(

    Star Trek was the one that really started fan-boys. I know I am one. Without what Star Trek was there would be nothing like the Star Wars Fandom of today.

    Star Wars was the one that changed the way movies are made. The was companies look are money making from movies. A generation grow-up as Star Wars Fan. My Generation was that one. While I didn't like ROTS, I am still sadden by the end of my greatly loved film saga.

    But most of all, I am upset to see both go out on down notes. Enterprice has an aweful ending episode with Riker and Troi trying to look like they did 10 years ago. It was painful to watch. ROTS has more crapy lightsader duels than you can shake a stick at. Badly done death scenes and way to many unneeded CGI jumping scenes. The story is on the level of a b-movie. Only strong enough to get you from one fight scene to the next.

    I really and truely had hoped I would end up being wrong about ROTS. I wanted Star Wars to end on a fantastic note. It was and still is my favor Sci-fi story of all times. It's just that five years ago, I didn't have films that were part of it that I didn't like.

    Finally racking of all Star Wars Films
    8: Attack of the Clones
    7: The Battle for Endor
    6: Caravan of Courage
    5: Revenge of the Sith
    4: The Phantom Menace
    3: Return of the Jedi
    2: The Empire Strikes Back
    1: Star Wars


    May the force be with you....always
  23. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Just a note for those who are dissapointed that as usual, the beautiful score that John williams wrote for the film was overshadowed take heart!

    Ben 'the Butcher' Burtt has left Lucasfilm!!!!
    [face_dancing]

    That means with the inevidible tinkering that George will do, hopefully some editing sanity will return!!

    Only spoiler in the link is the placement of the whilhelm scream:

    Whilehelm Scream article
  24. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5

    Ben 'the Butcher' Burtt has left Lucasfilm!!!!

    You're kidding, me? I wonder if he was forced out. The fan base has had major complaints about his work directly since AOTC to that DVD disaster (which even professional write ups noted) and now he really undermined a tremendous score in REVENGE. Amazing.

    This will be a day long remembered.
  25. a2dmusic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2001
    star 3
    Forced out or even simply being ready to leave after a long career there (and a lot of SW work), either way this is indeed good news.
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