Basher Sanctuary Episode 4: A New Forum

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Darth-Stryphe, Apr 14, 2004.

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  1. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 7
    But why must he obey his master? Has he been exposed to the dark side enough that he has an insatiable lust for its power, and so needs to obey and continue to learn from the Emperor? Does the Emperor now have some kind of power over either the suit or something else that keeps Anakin alive?

    Yes to all of the above. Right after Mace dies and Anakin swears loyalty to Sidious, the latter says they will discover the secret of "prolonging life" together. Remember, in the Opera scene Palps reveals that Plageuis had this power and made the mistake of teaching it to his apprentice.
    Sidious doesn't want to make that same mistake again. He'll use that power to keep Vader alive, but won't teach it to him because Sidious, like Palgeuis, has power and is afraid to lose it.

    That's why Vader dies once Palps is gone......he was keeping him alive through the darkside power he had learned from Plagueis.
  2. XV426 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 2
    Seeing Sith was a little like seeing TPM the first time: I just didn't know for sure. Granted, the pacing in Sith seemed all wrong, I didn't respond emotionally to anything; the film is just ripping at the seams with plot; but, as with Menace, I need to see it again to make sure.

    Clones? I knew after the first viewing I witnessed a train wreck.
  3. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 7
    My fiance(who is royally pissed off at me, because she wanted me to watch Star Wars III for the first time with her, but instead I ditched her to see the midnight screening with a work friend)

    I have a bad feeling about this. :p
  4. Poodoo-Magic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2004
    star 1
    With certain basherfolk in & around the DC area (Kill off Jar Jar, LSHB, any others?) I'd be willing to stomach the CGI Orgy of Revenge of the Screensaver in order to meet up & rant.

    For those DC-basher folk interested in a beverage-enhanced get together sometime this week, PM me & I'll set something up if there's interest. Warning, though- I may need to douse several of those pints beforehand in order to make it through.

    LSHB:...I'm assuming everyone (else) is leggy brunette supermodels, of course.

    Surely aren't all Star Wars fans?
  5. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5

    Honestly, how can reviewers praise how satisfying it is that Episode III resolves the plotlines leading to Episode IV? All I can say is ?duh?. C?mon, people, this is filmschool 101 stuff. A prequel must, by definition, lead into the original story? The issue in a prequel is never WHAT is going to happen ? that we know. The issue is HOW and WHY the original story happened. The answer in III?s case is: as obviously as possible. We never learn anything about the background or motivations of any of the characters, and there is never any mystery or interest in how the lead character Anakin turned to the dark side. All I can figure is that people already wrote a fascinating story in their minds and so had filled in all the gaping holes. Too bad it isn?t the plodding, tedious, movie that Lucas wrote and directed.

    I guess it was obvious that Vader would sell his soul to save his wife since 1983. Silly me.

    Everytime that Lucas has tried to be "original" or break away from what we might expect, it hasn't worked well. And with the Faust theme, he does break away from the mold but noone believes it or it "doesn't fit."

    I think plenty of character motivations and backgrounds are covered. Sure, we could learn more - but this whole review just seems offbase to me.
  6. redxavier Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Did anyone else think that the way the R2 units popped out of their starfighters was specifically put in the movie because it would be a good feature on a toy?

    This irked me.

    Also, once Padme is dead, what motivation does Vader have to continue to serve the Emperor. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, does anyone have a good explanation?

    The script says so! Or rather, those pesky movies that Lucas made all those years ago say so...

    Another reason why the whole "I choose Dark because I'm in luurrve" stuff is retarded.

    Oh, I think we learn plenty about the motivation of the main villain Palpatine.

    Really? Why precisely does Palpatine want to rule the galaxy? Because it beats working retail? I love to see a series showing what the Emperor does all those years on the throne...

    Personally, I think it has something to do with growing up on a planet that intentionally elects 14 year old queens as rulers...

    And what about Anakin? We know his entire backstory sans birth.

    We have a sketch of his backstory, nothing more. Just a few unrelated points in his life that demonstrate all his development happens off-screen.

  7. gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 5
    For some it looks like the whole PT was like a plane in a nose dive, for some bashers they were able to pull up at the last second, for others they just couldn't, so they crashed and burned it.

    So all the movies you dislike are bad because you "crashed and burned" them ?
    Please, that 'psychoanalyse the fans' routine just doesn't work . But it does lead to talking about the fans and that isn't somewhere you should go.

    No, it isn't. Palpatine already told him that together they will discover the secret

    Yeah, but the point is Anakin wants to save padme and Sid admits he can't.

    You want Anakin to make the right choices. You want him to be reasonable and rational at the right time

    No, in fact in the same post you quote I say - It's not a matter of calmness it's a matter of WHY he's doing this, he's doing it to save padme, they make a BIG thing of it, and yet when Sid says he can't anakin bizarrely ignores this .

    That isn't what the story is. His obsession with saving Padme trumps all....even common sense

    Right, but where is this obssession with saving padme when Sid admits he can't save her ? That's my point - I agree his obssession with saving padme is what it's all about, so when Sid admits he can't Anakin should go ballistic "You lying, deceiving bastard!" etc.

    Gez - do you really want me to explain why 3PO flying just isn't right?

    Well yeah. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to know what you're thinking.


  8. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    I also thought R2 was a little overdone in the humor department. The kick-over part by the Super Battle droid was pretty funny though, but I didn't care the the oil and fire bit.

    - I actually liked the final shot of the binary sunset. I'm got a strange feeling of connection in being able to see the same sunset Luke will be seeing many years later. The only regret is it is a wonderful shot to a movie I did not like.

    - I kind of liked the Order 66 takeover and the turning of the Clones. However, I'm not clear how they are able to tell 100% who a Jedi is and who is just a weird looking alien? Did they study manuals beforehand? Is it in their genetic makeup to obey the words Order 66?

    - I don't know why but I got a small kick out of seeing the opening space ship turning over vertically, like a funhouse attraction. It just seemed funny to see even Palpatine slide down like that.

    - I didn't like the duel between Anakin and Obi Wan, but I did like the scene when Anakin was crawling up that slope and Obi Wan says his last words and turns his back on him. In a way, that is how I imagined it would turn out all these years. It was a strong image for me.

    - Dooku duel. What a rushed and chopped up waste. They should've thrown out the useless Grievous and let Dooku develop (he didn't even develop that much in AOTC). So much for "emerging character." The moment Anakin had to execute him was not bad. I even thought it was a little gruesome for a SW movie.

    - Grievous. Why does he have four lightsabers, but when fighting Obi Wan, he only strikes with ONE at a time? Obviously Obi Wan can only parry one saber at a time, so Grievous seems like a pretty generous guy giving Obi Wan some room to breathe. His voice and shaky movements were distracting like Jar jar Binks in TPM, and someone brought up a good point. If George Lucas said Vader is slow because he is basically a cyborg, then how come General Grievous moves faster than just about anything and he is basically the same as Vader? I know why. Because Lucas can't resist showing off what CGI can do these days. He wants to show off every inch of that lustrous fluidity and flexibility. If A New Hope were done today, I bet Vader would be doing absurd things like GG.

    - That lizard thing was really annoying. And since it just crashes and topples over anything in its path, there really was no sense of danger. That thing could leap and screech down a 20 degree incline and we don't have to worry, because the CG Obi Wan will always survive without a scratch. I agree with Binary. There is never a sense of danger in these movies. They are like ragdolls who can take any abuse and they never carry over their injuries later on in the movie. When Obi Wan was crushed by that falling scaffold in the beginning, I laughed at how bad it looked. And shouldn't he be dead? Or do Jedi really have stronger bones and internal organs? When Leia gets shot by a blaster in ROTJ she screams, or when Luke has his hand chopped off, he screams in agony. How about when Luke is pulled underwater by the Dionaga, I could see the bloodshot eyes and veins popping out of his temples. I could feel the torture pain he goes through. I think these details, these human frailties, are lost in the prequels. Whenever prequel characters get thrown into the air 30 feet, or get thrown against a wall, or get crushed by things, they just bounce back. Way too cartoony for me. I just say "so what?" There is no reason to care if the character is underdeveloped that you don't feel like rooting for them or care if they die. If I wanted a sense of exhiliration and speed in fictional environments I'll go play the Playstation 2 or Xbox to satisfy the eye for action and visuals. That is not the reason I go to SW, to see fast blurring visuals with vacuous characters I don't care about.

    - The duel between Anakin vs. Obi Wan. I could see people liking this one, as it has more action, but I just never liked the idea of Jedi who jump 40 feet over lava and land perfectly on a postage stamp. Or ho
  9. Blue_Jedi33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5

    That was my first midnight movie too, so guys if you only saw it at midnight go see it during the day again.

    And it's funny how some of the hardcore fans didn't want to take there wives or girlfirend on the first round.

    My brother did the same thing with his wife.

    Since they planned on seeing it multiple times.
    Why do you think that is?
  10. MajorNerd Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 4
    some people obviously didn't buy into vader turning to the darkside on a whim...enough motivation was not presented for him to turn kill everyone he ever knew because a known liar told him it was a good idea...also, we never learned anything about palpatine other than the fact he is "evil".
  11. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5

    You'll never get me on one of those dreadful starships.

    I'd forgotten how much I hate space travel.

    3PO has always been timid of even being in a ship, much less piloting one. The whole thing just seems uncharacteristic of him.


    some people obviously didn't buy into vader turning to the darkside on a whim...enough motivation was not presented for him to turn kill everyone he ever knew because a known liar told him it was a good idea.

    It was hardly a whim, and it isn't that enough motivation wasn't shown. It's that you don't buy the motivation given.

    Saving his wife is his motivation. Sids only promises Power. Power he knows he will not get from the Jedi. The Jedi use him, don't trust him, disrespect him and likely will expel him once his child is born. Besides, Obi-Wan - what does he owe any of these people? Palpatine watches over him for years, strokes his ego, confuses him and then promises him power - perhaps enough power to save his wife.

    To me, that's motivation.

    Caught between getting nothing to the hope of getting something, I'll gamble on the hope.

    And once he makes that choice, he sees it as no turning back. And from there, the evil really does begin to 'consume' him -- until we get to yellow eyes. He slowly unravels, and then quickly snaps - but then again goes deeper and deeper.
  12. redxavier Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    3PO has always been timid of even being in a ship, much less piloting one. The whole thing just seems uncharacteristic of him.

    Why does that surprise you, given what's happened to Yoda?
  13. Tachikoma-Kun Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2005
    star 3
    I honestly don't understand how someone can be a fan of Star Wars and not enjoy this movie.

    Well, if you don't like the characters and don't....You know what? It doesn't matter. I guess I'm not a Star Wars fan then. I'm gonna go play with my Jean-Luc Picard doll.
    Edit: But to be complitely honest with you, Star Trek hasn't been the same since Spock died. *sigh*
  14. DarthBane93 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 1999
    star 4
    I thought this movie was the worst of the bunch after my first viewing. I watched it again yesterday, amazed at how much more I was enjoying it. It is still not close to the OT for me, but its getting up there again.

    However, when I look back at ROTS, there would have to be certain things that had to be done.

    1. Anakin's turn. This had to be well played out, well acted, and believable. I feel all the cards were laid out properly, but his exact moment of turn wasnt believable. It still isnt for me.

    2. Tying up all the loose ends. Ok that was done...but not as grand as I was hoping it would be.

    3. The DUEL. I thought Yoda vs. Sid was fine. A little silly at times with Palp's Joker imatation here and there, but overall fine. In was too fine. I enjoyed their duel more than Anakin vs. Obi. Thats the problem.

    The DUEL, aside from the opening 30 seconds and their force push...didnt enthrall me. It didnt excite me. It did nothing for me. Their moves werent as grand as I was hoping for it to be. And the lava stuff really got bad fast. And worst of all, the end was anticlimatic with the "high ground" incident. Also, not enough banter before they start lava surfing.

    From an action standpoint, this had to be the biggest, grandest, thing in all of Star Wars. It wasnt. It failed.

    4. My fanboy actually see Vader kill a Jedi on screen. I am not even talking about suited Vader. I am talking about Anakin here. The Temple Raid. We see nothing. I am telling you that really diappoints me. I know its not a big deal when it comes to the story, but oh boy, that was something I wanted to see since I first saw ANH. And I got nothing. It would have helped if the Dooku fight would have been better. But alas, Vader does nothing visually on screen. *sniff*
  15. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    In my scripts, Threepio is a royal protocol droid on Alderaan. In Ep1 he enters a starship for the first time. The ship is flown by Anakin (they do not meet however) in a very reckless way (to save the group aboard), and Threepio gets a fear of flying; in the tradition of droids displaying some emotions in SW, and for setting up his OT lines.

    I wonder how I can come up with this simple solution while the creator of Star Wars cannot.

    This may sound elitist or whatever, but it's a shame we know more about Star Wars than Lucas himself.

    Although I'm still sure Lucas has lurked in the sanctuary and picked up some ideas; many of my complaints with the pT were corrected in ROTS, such as 3P0 getting the correct voice, no Jar Jar, cutting between heroes' scenes and villains' scenes, trying new things (such as voice-overs, dreams) and better dialogue.
  16. MajorNerd Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 4
    what is a star wars fan? i never really considered myself a "star wars fan"...those are grown men that stand in line for days when they don't have too...grown men that bring plastic toys to the theater. that's not me.

    no, i've always just liked the original movies, just as i've liked countless other movies in my 26 years. i think it discredits the originals to say that you "have" to like the PT as star wars fan...i guess you can't just be fan of good movies anymore.
  17. TrueJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    3PO has always been timid of even being in a ship, much less piloting one. The whole thing just seems uncharacteristic of him.

    There are two different 3PO's in the saga. The one in the PT is a product of Anakin's work and is more aggressive. The 3PO in the OT is more like a protocol droid, being more timid and keeping with a driod who was not designed to be exciting.
  18. DARKAURUM Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 3
    I find myself agreeing with Binary's review, mostly, so I'll just write addendums to what he wrote. Especially since he seems to go chronologically, which is what I wanted to do:

    The crawl sucked, but I already knew that.

    It wasn't as awkward and confusing as TPM's, so I think that still out-sucks it

    The CG space battle at the beginning had some neat looking CGI, but also some not-so-neat. I felt curiously disengaged throughout the surprisingly short battle. I was irritated by the funky sounds those space-battle droids made. The whole thing lacked any sense of urgency or punch. It didn't touch ROTJ's space battle.

    The first twenty minutes of ROTS was a replay of the last twenty minutes of AOTC, essentially. No sense of human element, just clones vs. droids. Showing some of those republic-cum-imperial crew members during the battle would have added some human drama.

    On board Grievous's ship we are insulted by an awful-looking CG R2 who has ridiculous little adventures. The thin battle droids from TPM are back, and their voices are worse than before. Very high pitched and sissy-sounding. Then, the bulky AOTC-type battle droids show up and their voices are even higher-pitched and sissy than the slender battle droids' voices. Ben Burtt is truly the villian of this film--oops, not a film, but a "photoplay" (watch the very end of ROTS's credits).

    The crappy mix in the first half of the movie, with the music turned way down so you can hear the wicked-awesome sound effects, is a travesty. It's like the DVD releases, and the butchery of the asteroid chase scene in The Empire Strikes Back.

    Dooku was meaningless and useless in the movie. Grievous sounds kind of like Watto and has a stupid little cough and he talks to himself like the black-moustached villian who would kidnap the damsel and tie her to the railroad tracks.

    He could have had some line in this movie, at least about turning Anakin together, so that when Sidious screws him it adds some drama. But no

    Kenobi and Anakin went through the ship slicing and dicing droids. It was all so fake and lacking in drama. It never felt like they were in danger.

    When we get to Coruscant (where we stay for most of the movie) the acting (already bad enough) becomes prequel-bad. Anakin and Padme together were hidious. Speaking of hidious, Lucas did something I didn't think possible: He made Padme ugly in about half her scenes! Beginning with the scene with her brushing her hair and up to (but not including) the scene later on in which she talks to Kenobi about Anakin, she is positively ugly! She looks like she just got out of bed after a rough night.

    I think she was supposed to look 'glowing' and pregnant, but it came out wrong.

    McDiarmid acted better than everyone else, but even he didn't do a great job--just a good enough job.

    Bluescreens everywhere. The movie didn't feel real. It felt like a cartoon with a few actors inserted in. It felt like the actors were doing one thing and the cartoons something else, and they seldom meshed well together.

    On Utapau Ben Burtt strikes again. Kenobi gets on that lizard and the damn thing makes this irritating sound every five seconds. Lots more tensionless fighting between Kenobi and droids. Morrison's (or whatever his name is) head pasted on top of CG clone bodies looked truly awful.
    That looked really bad, yes

    We get to the "Order 66" part. I was still completely unengaged. I felt nothing. No sense of loss or tragedy. It was just computer-stuff happening on the screen. The CG world on which the blue Jedi girl got killed looked like something out of an old 1960s Star Trek episode--and not in a good way. Giant styroam-rubber-looking flowers and crap. Ugh. Kashyyyk (the Wookiee world) sucked. I was hoping for deep, dense, dark, and foreboding forests. Instead, it's a day at the beach. It was nice, however, to catch a glimpse of a real location out in the background.

    Besides, there was no point to the wookie battle anyway

    Anakin's fall to the dark si
  19. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    There were only two parts in the movie that I actually liked, and oddly enough, they were both from the same scene, when Padme meets Anakin at the Mustafar docking bay. I admit, Hayden did a great job of playing a creepy psychopath. Unlike AOTC, it was intentional this time. The clincher for me was when he offered her the opportunity to rule the Galaxy together, which ties in to my second favorite part, when we look up at the ship and see Obi-wan standing there. For me, that was an "Awww, Hell yeah" moment, seeing Obi-wan appear and try to take some control over the situation. The look Ewan has on his face is priceless. That was the epitomy of Obi-wan Kenobi, pre-OT, as he steps down and looks at his apprentice with disappointment. And he lectures. Like a Master. He clearly looks down on Anakin, and with good reason. That was great.

    And that's pretty much it.
  20. Kill_Off_Jar_Jar Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2005
    star 1
    I saw ROTS over the weekend and generally feel kind of "meh" about it. For me, it is a hundred times better than TPM and AOTC (but I guess 100 times zero is technically zero).

    I thought the acting was generally much better this time around. For once, I actually believed that Obi-Wan and Anakin might be friends, and the relationship between Anakin and Palpatine is paid more than lip service. Although we never really see the "good man" described in the OT, at least there are finally times when he's not whining or sulking. Christensen is much better in this movie, and McGregor is really pretty solid. And there are a few scenes that actually have a -- gasp! -- mood.

    Unfortunately, the alleged love between Anakin and Padme still does not come across. It's marginally better than in AOTC but not by much. And it's unfortunate that this relationship is the supposed linch-pin of Anakin's turn.

    The dialogue is pretty typical for the PT. I think Stoppard improved it a little, but there are still some real howlers...mostly between Anakin and Padme.

    For me, there were times when ROTS really threatened to take off and become a great film, moments where the PT finally felt like Star Wars. But then something would derail the momentum.

    Although TPM and AOTC are virtually disposable at this point, if one thinks that the PT was necessary at all (I'm very much on the fence), then ROTS has all the "scenes that matter." It is unfortunately these scenes that come up the shortest.

    Anakin's Turn: Meh. The buildup to the turn is handled pretty artfully (by PT standards). But when it happens, it happens much too quickly and doesn't have the point-of-no-return feel that it's made out to have. "What have I done?!?...Oh well, off to slaughter some children, in the name of love." Plus, despite all of Samuel L. Jackson's protestations, I think Mace ultimately kind of does go out like a punk. Not that his character was ever developed, so who cares.

    Jedi Purge: Meh. Not enough menace to the whole thing. Part of the problem is that I don't know who any of these Jedi are beyond my own nicknames for them..."the conehead," "the blue one," "fish eyes" etc. It's hard for me to feel much despite the swelling score that tells me I should.

    Death of Padme/Birth of Twins: Double meh. What's up with a droid diagnosing that she's "lost the will to live"? Should've have just died from the choke or from childbirth. Padme goes out like a punk, too. She just gives up. This is inconsistent with what little of her character was established in the first two movies.

    "The Duel": Half meh. By the time it rolled around, I was pretty numb to any more lightsaber work so I am not in the best position to judge. It was so fast and cut so quickly that it was tough to tell what was going on. The lava surfing was a little silly. Not enough of the banter that makes the ESB and ROTJ duels powerful. Not bad overall, but not what it was built up to be, IMO.

    Birth of Vader: Basically pretty good until the "Noooooooo." Such cheese. Such cliche. It was oddly cool to hear suited Vader even say "Padme." It was jarring in the sense that it really slammed the PT and OT together in a way. Hard to describe. It was probably the scene I anticipated most, and it was fine until it was ruined by the "Noooooo." It's probably been so long since Lucas heard one that he's forgotten how they sound.

    And Dooku turned out to be pretty pointless, as did General Grievous. My friends liked Grievous, I just kept wondering how someone who keeps coughing is breathing in space.

    It still suffers from most of the PT's general problems: increasing R2D2 powers/antics; droids that go "uh oh"; an orgy of unnecessary CGI; pointless throw-away OT references; a revolving door of underdeveloped baddies. And the use of music was uncharacteristically poor here, I thought.

    On the whole, I thought it was relatively enjoyable as a standalone prequel and reaffirmed my belief that TPM and AOTC would ultimately not
  21. Patrick Russell Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    One thing that just occurred to me... there is a comparatively subtle thing going on throughout the last half of the film where Anakin seems like he's starting to talk himself into suspecting that there's something between Padme and Obi Wan. Did anyone else catch this?
  22. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    too many posts to catch up on today and too much work.

    I haven't seen it yet, so would like to be put in the "hasn't made up mind yet" category of basher. I have a feeling I will like this movie, but prefer to wait until I've seen it to actually declare one way or the other.

    My ten-yr old nephew saw it and it scared him! General Grievious was scary and the end scared him, with Anakin burning, etc.

    You can put me in the 'I hate Padme' club. I haven't liked her character since TPM when she told Qui-Gon he assumed too much. Really rude thing to say to the Jedi who is trying to save your life and your planet!
  23. Kill_Off_Jar_Jar Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2005
    star 1
    One thing that just occurred to me... there is a comparatively subtle thing going on throughout the last half of the film where Anakin seems like he's starting to talk himself into suspecting that there's something between Padme and Obi Wan. Did anyone else catch this?

    I definitely thought that when Anakin says something like "Obi-Wan's been here, hasn't he?" This may be a storyline that is in the novelization but not really in the movie. It would have given more depth to his ultimate conflict with Obi-Wan.
  24. SomeRandomNerd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    I love it when the Sanctaury gets all busy...

    >>>>He tells the story of Plaguis and how he taught the secret to his apprentice and then the apprentice murders him, then later he reveals that he was the apprentice.

    He doesn't say that he was the apprentice though. Hell, he doesn't even say that he's a Sith. He says that the Dark Side is a pathway to "unnatural" powers, and that he can teach Anakin about it in a way the Jedi can't.

    >>>>And then he admits that he doesn't.

    No- he says that they can learn it together. And it's perfectly true that the Jedi will never teach him to cheat death- but the Jedi could teach him to accept death and gain immortality that way. But he doens't want to listen because it doesn't give him what he wants.

    And that's what the power of the Dark Side is all about.

    >>>>Also, once Padme is dead, what motivation does Vader have to continue to serve the Emperor. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, does anyone have a good explanation?

    Well, what else is he going to do? Seriously. He's clearly not powerful enough to challenge him, the Jedi are gone, so who else is he going to turn to? That's the tragedy.

    >>>>The first part is right, but the second part is way out. Corruption has nothing to do with balance. The Dark Side is the Force.

    Corruption has everything to do with balance. That's why AOTC keeps talking about how the "dark side clouds everything."

    The Jedi accept the Force as a whole- and that means not imposing your will on it, but working with it. "The Will of the Force." The Dark Side doesn't.

    >>>There's a crucial difference between balance and something that is balanced. Balance is equality (usually of opposites). When we say a person or diet is balanced, we're talking about something different. A balanced diet includes a variety of variables, it's a balance between food types not healthy and unhealthy.

    So what is it that makes a person or a diet different from the Force's natural equilibrium? What's different about the idea of there being a general "bad thing" making a person's mental health, or somebody's diet "unbalanced", that is different from the idea of something making the Force unbalanced?

    >>>>But we never hear the prophecy in terms of this context, only that it will bring balance to the Force.

    Likewise, we never hear the prophecy in terms of equal numbers of Jedi and Sith. (Does Yoda count less because he's only half size? 8-})

    >>>>>The light side doesn't need to be named, it's inherently implied when the opposite is called the Dark Side. And the Dark Side is the opposite as it is a deliberate use of the Force for attack (ESB) and personal gain (ROTS) in direct contradiction of the light side.

    The Jedi philosophy never needs to talk about the "light side" because it doesn't exist- they only talk of "The Force." ie. All of it. (If it was just "the light side" that gives a Jedi his power, or is Yoda's powerful ally, then I'd say it most definitely does need to be named.)

    >>>>The Dark Side is the negative and aggressive side of using the Force. It's the destructive aspect of being able to manipulate the energy field that surrounds us (them!) and binds the galaxy together.

    The problem with defining it as "negative" is that it overlooks "points of view". Surely by that definition, Mace was being destructive when he was going to kill Sidious, so by your definition, Anakin was on the "light side" when he defended Sidious? It's not that simple.

    >>>>Where the Light Side sees healing, the Dark Side harms insteads. The best way to describe it is ying and yang - they both could not exist without the other.

    I don't agree with that at all- that's just saying that if there could be no good without evil, it must be good to be evil sometimes... (Cue crude cartoon musical...)

    Beyond Star Wars, the reason for the imagery (I think) is darkness is the absence of light, but that doesn't define what light it. Some religions define ev
  25. Patrick Russell Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    "I definitely thought that when Anakin says something like "Obi-Wan's been here, hasn't he?" This may be a storyline that is in the novelization but not really in the movie. It would have given more depth to his ultimate conflict with Obi-Wan."

    IMHO, it comes out even more on the landing platform at Mustafar. When Obi Wan appears at the entrance to the ship, Anakin even bellows out "You're with HIM?!"

    Actually, what I like about the possibility of this being subtext is exactly that... it's actual subtext for once. Not something that ends up being explained in a painfully obvious way, but just something which may or may not be there.
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