Basher Sanctuary Episode I: The Phantom Thread

According to that it goes ANH, ESB, ROTJ

Among those I know, they tend to lean towards ROTJ, though I agree that--and I considered adding this to my post--that people know ANH simply because it's the first film...

 

Thanks for the link, Pizza the Hutt.

 

Amongst non-SW people I know, I've heard three opinions commonly expressed:

"I like the old ones [OT], but not the new ones [PT]."

"I like the first two."

"My favorite is the first one."

In other words: Nobody* likes the PT, many don't like ROTJ, most like ESB, and everybody likes the 1977 SW film.

But that's only those I know of.

*I can think of one and only one (half) exception. My old boss liked SW, ESB, and AOTC, and he didn't like ROTJ and TPM.

 

I don't think Pizza's link solves the issue being talked about -- casual moviegoers, not neccesarily big SW fans.

If Empire magazine put Star Wars movies really high up on their list of best movies, isn't it logical to assume that the people who voted were, in fact, Star Wars fans?


When I say ROTJ is one of the favorites for non-SW fans, I definitely wasn't thinking "the sort of person who would vote Star Wars #1 in a poll"...



Rick McCallum loves you!"

 

My Three Nephews Love TPM and AOTC... But Unfortunatly find the Classic Trilogy "Boring".

It Is Something I hope they grow out of, they are aged 10-12... But it has been something they've stuck to for a while now.





Maybe they are just *Nobodies.

 

I have never met (in real life) anyone who liked ANH the best, other than myself.

All my Star Wars fan RL friends like ESB best, and all my non-fan RL friends like ROTJ best.

(Ewoks, big space battle and Leia in a bikini. Can't miss.)


I think ANH is about the only film in the saga that I feel is rated where it should be. I find ESB vastly overrated and ROTJ-TPM-AOTC highly underrated to varying degrees.




Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Amongst non-SW people I know, I've heard three opinions commonly expressed:

"I like the old ones [OT], but not the new ones [PT]."

"I like the first two."

"My favorite is the first one."

I love it when I see stuff like that. People only seem to be surrounded by those who share their opinions, like a basher would say when Yoda started fighting Dooku there entire cinema burst into laughter and some got up and walked out...etc, whereas a fan of it would say the whole crowd started cheering and loved it. I personally don't know anyone who shares those first 2 opinions you listed.

 

ANH is the second most ticketed movie of all times. More people were will to pay to see it, than any other movie (except: Gone With The Wind) in history.

For alot of normal people, all the other films are just steps down from the 1977 classic.


The mass market has aready picked it's favorite SW film of all and it is the one that more know only as...





STAR WARS

 

SLAVE2, maybe it's something as innocent as "birds of a feather flock together". I'm 33 years old. I don't have much contact with anyone under 25. My acquaintences tend to be in the age-range of 30-50. I suppose if I hung around with teenagers what I've heard about SW would be different.

I forgot to mention what my wife thinks about SW:

She doesn't like the prequels. She is torn which is better: SW or ESB. She thinks ROTJ is a come-down, but the one thing she loves about the saga is...

EWOKS!

I forgive her...

 

Well I've seen a number of polls and ANH and ESB are always very close in rating.
(There are polls here on the JC i believe, I saw them a while back but I can't remember how to find them).

ANH and ESB are like Godfather I and II, most people seem to consider them as good as one another and III is disregarded.

And TPM is nowher near as good as Godfather III.

Amongst my SW friends (about 30 people in RL and pen-pals) ANH and ESB are the clear favorites, by far. With the PT I found that they were generally forgiving of TPM when it came out, they talked about it's positive aspects , but by the time the video arrived nearly all of them said they didn't like it apart from the duel and the pod race. And a similar thing happened with AOTC - after the excitement of a new movie had worn off they found it didn't stand up to repeat viewings.
I have one pen-pal who still likes the PT, but a lot vehemently hate it, in fact a number of them have given up on SW, and they'd been fans for 20+ years.

Some of my friends kids liked TPM, but then they like everything, for kids it's all new.

g

 

Among my friends, everyone agrees that ESB is the best flick, followed closely by ANH. Everyone hates AOTC, and couldn't care less about TPM and Jar Jar. Except one dude, but I think he says he likes the prequels just to be different

 

I stayed up till 12:30 a.m. PDT to watch the Clone Wars cartoons last night. Only missed Ep. 1-5. I tend to agree with Borges that they are a lot of fun and action-packed and the Jedi seem to have a greater control and use of the force than in AOTC or TPM.

 

They are fun, I've still got 5 episodes left to watch. What they are missing thoudh is the SW music, it's devoid in too many of the episodes and would give it a much welcome boost.

 

I'm happy to see that some of you are enjoying the Clone Wars series.

 

Well, let's take a look at the Clone Wars series, shall we...

- Lucas picked another director to handle it all, then pretty much stayed out of it.
- Said director was a huge fan of SW (because of course we allllll know it's best if we hand SW over to the fans).
- No politics.
- No Jar Jar.
- Lots of Jedi fighting and epic action scenes.
- Low use of CGI, preferring traditional methods where possible.

Hell, it practically reads like John Q. Basher's wish list at one point or another. I'm surprised the lot of 'em don't find CW the greatest thing since the last frame of ESB.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

John Q. Basher? Wasn't he a folk hero?

 

Haven't seen the clone wars cartoon. Don't feel the need to.

I think many people like ROTJ. I like it too. It's a fun movie. When I was younger it was my favourite.
For the same reason I can also understand why people like parts of AOTC, but I will never understand how some people can like all of AOTC.

The Yoda fight... Seriously, when I saw it a few people laughed a bit, because it was so silly. Nobody jumped up and cheered. And most people in the audiance (a hundred or so) were probably Star Wars fans.

Star Wars may not be dead for everybody, but for many fans it is.
The prequels are simply totally different than the OT, and most people will agree that they're also not as good. The quality of Star Wars has been going down for a long time. The Special Editions, TPM, AOTC. It's getting worse and worse.
Sure, there are still fans who like it. There are also new fans, and plenty of people still go see the movies, because it's star wars and it has a bunch of neat effects and explosions.
But Star Wars is not the same anymore. It's just another franchise now.
I don't care anymore. Episode 3? Whatever. More changes to the special editions? Go ahead, screw around with them some more. It's too bad, but there's nothing I can do about it, except bitch about it in this thread every now and then.

 

I agree, Sillyname. As I mentioned in a thread in the 3SA (I'll probably be banned any time now), the prequels are NOT popular because of it's quality, but because of a 16-year wait and the greatest hype ever.

Star Wars is perhaps not entirely dead yet, as there is one more film to go, but it is definitely ROTTING.

On a side note, I watched FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING this morning and MAN is it a fantastic, fun, epic movie. It has all the things I expected from STAR WARS, and a few blemishes (unlike the prequels, two huge blemishes).

 

I have a question for those who disagree with what the Jedi wear in the prequels. If they did not wear similar attire to what Obi-Wan wears ANH, how do you explain what Anakin wears at the end of ROTJ?

[image=http://www.theforce.net/midichlorians/GHOSTS.jpg]

Doesn't it make sense even before TPM came out that what those 3 are wearing in that shot is typical Jedi clothing?

 

I think originally Obi-Wan's clothes were supposed to be ordinary 'Tatooine' clothes. Uncle Owen and I think other guys in Mos Eisley (not sure) wear something similar.
It makes sense that Obi-Wan wouldn't be walking around dressed as a Jedi.
In TESB we got Yoda and already there were some similarities with Obi-Wan's clothing.
In ROTJ there was Anakin of course.
I guess it's possible that Anakin was simply wearing ordinary clothes. After all, he was from Tatooine.
But they probably thought that someone wearing an 'Obi-Wan' robe would instantly be seen as a Jedi by the audiance.

I think for the PT it would have made more sense if they used Luke's black outfit from ROTJ, but I guess it was too 'dark side'. BTW, I believe in the ROTJ novel black is described as the colour of the old Jedi outfits.
It would have been nice if they had come up with more original clothes, instead of simply explaining off-screen that Jedi walk around like poor people, but at least a few Jedi in the PT wear something different ... and less (blue Twilek babe).

As for Star Wars almost reaching the end... I don't know. For some reason I suspect that there will be animated sequels. Just a feeling...a tremor in the Force or something

 

SLAVE, the real reason Anakin is wearing Obi-Wan-like clothes in that shot... his Force ghost was originally naked, so Obi had to lend him a thing or two to wear.

The reason he's so happy-smilin' in that shot?

It's 'cause he's not wearing any underwear, and there's a cooling breeze blowing through.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

SLAVE2, I have a problem with what Anakin's ghost wears in ROTJ. I wish Robert B. Brown's website was still up. In addition to other cool stuff, it had a great analysis of Jedi garb.

 

I'm one that feels "A New Hope" is the best of the Star Wars series. There hasn't been anything like the opening sequence of ANH. I remember thinking the first time I saw the movie, "Wow, how big is this triangular ship?" The Stormtroopers were a force (no pun intended) to deal with, unlike the bungling troopers in ROTJ.

As far as Jedi "uniforms..." Well, I got the impression that Luke's black attire was the tradition active Jedi gear. Thinking the Jedi were like peace officers, it made sense to me to wear officer like uniforms. I too felt that Kenobi's clothing were that of a "hermit." Honestly, I never gave anything thought to Anakin's ghostly robes.

The Clone Wars series was great, perhaps because (as mentioned) Lucas wasn't directing or totally on hands involved. If you haven't watch the Clone Wars, you might want to make an effort to do so, as it may have implications or at least be referenced in Episode III. Afterall, the Clone Wars series is the first appearance of General Grievace. Moreover, the Clone Wars is much like the AniMatrix's "The Final Flight of the Osiris;" sort of a bridge between the movies. Bottom, it's worth the effort to check out the Clone Wars series.

 

The Jedi garb worn by anakin in at the end of ROTJ just goes to show how much thought went into that film - NONE!

In that silly end to what could have been a great series all the costumes suddenly took on a bizarre twist and went to pot. All the imperial officers had the same ranking pins, Han Solo was stuck in his old smelly clothes he was frozen in for the last few months with nowt but his old waistcoat from 4 our years ago and a perverts trench coat. Liea got caught in a series of silly wear too, first a puny looking bounty hunter costume for no reason other than for her to be captured and give Luke an additional reason to turn up last to rescue all of them (don't get me startedon their non-existant plan to save Han Solo) then she gets the slave girl outfit just to show skin to the audience and later she has the bizarre Ewok outfit on for lord-only-knows what reason, all the Ewoks are practically naked. Lukes Costume just seamed designed to be lost in various stages, what it wasn't designed to look like is Jedi garb because Lucas put about as much consideration into what they would have worn in their glory days as he did when he began making the PT.

At the end of ROTJ Anakin is wearing EXACTLY the same clothes as Ben as it's probably just his reserve costume. All the early plans of Jedi costume and armour that Ralph McQuarrie and other PT artists came up with got sidelined for the common Farmer look that Ben used as his disguise on Tattooine. If you want a glimpse into what the Jedi could possibly have had in terms of decent costyume design, look no further than Darth Vaders costume, the armoured peices with robes is the type of combination Luca$ originally enviseged for the Jedi and Vaders costume was supposed to be a darker themed version of that. He litterally kopped another great idea for simplicity sake.

Can you imagine how great Obi Wan, Qui Gon and the other Jedi would have looked in proper individually designed costumes on the same basis as Vaders but a lighter theme? These guys would have looked the part! Furthermore when Quigon left the ship in the desert in his outland disguise - it would have LOOKED like a disguise and not like a poncho thrown over his plain ordinary Jedi/farmer wear that everyone in Tattooine practically wears. I can't beleive they put all that time and effort into producing Jar Jar or that ridiculous droid factory yet dashed hundreds of great costume designs for the jedi in place of a few robes with leather boots. That's it, the BIG difference between a Jedi and a Tattoine farmer.. his Leather Boots!

 

I agree CeeJay. And the ironic thing is, I distinctly remember that ROTJ's director (Richard Marquand, rest his soul) complained in interviews about the "lack of attention to detail" in ESB and wanting to rectify that in ROTJ. He pointed out that in ESB, Artoo's details were sometimes painted in blue and other times in black (I've yet to notice this problem despite watching the film countless times) and that Vader sometimes held his lightsaber with only one hand (a rule quite often violated in the PT). But then ROTJ clearly has more noticable problems like the Imperials all wearing the same rank, or Leia suddenly appearing in that Ewok dress for no logical reason.

As for Luke's ROTJ uniform, I still think that is the direction the PT Jedi should have gone, rather than overusing old Ben's desert rat look. They wouldn't have to be black either; keep the basic design, but use different, Jedi-esque colors -- tan, grey, white, or brown -- to differentiate the uniforms from those of the Sith.

Edit: 5000th post!