Basic

No offense to the Brits---Doctor Who acting beats Jimmy Carrey's $20m to make animal noises any day or night---but slang changes at any time. I hear they're now teaching young schoolers to say sheeps and fishes. Heck, I make new words by the year, and why not?

Somebody made a rolling stone gathers no moss. Who? When? And why should I repeat a stranger's phrase when I could make my own?

 

For understandability, for the greater good, for butterscotch, to prevent crimes against language? Pick one

 

Here's a salient quote from an article on the Ewok Adventures over at TOS:

A timeline published in the Star Wars Insider places the Ewok movies as happening a short time before Return of the Jedi. There is no Imperial presence visible on Endor, suggesting the films take place before the Death Star operation began in earnest. Also, Wicket appears to learn english through his association with Cindel. It is likely that the language Cindel was speaking was not Basic, but another language, and that it was translated into english for the benefit of the viewing audience. Thus, Wicket doesn't understand what Princess Leia is saying when those two meet. Also featured extensively in the films was Ewokese, the language developed by Ben Burtt for the Ewoks.

 

god help us all...

 

Which is also the approximate odds of a single species (humans) independently evolving in two separate galaxies.

The fact is, trying to set up Basic as merely being translated into English, despite all the indications to the contrary, results in overly convoluted explanations of things that shouldn't really need to be explained in the first place. If you can accept the massive coincidence of humans evolving in another galaxy, why is it any more difficult to accept that they speak the same language we do?

Also, if they're using a loose, not always literal translation so that things like puns and rhymes can carry over and so that human characters' names (at least sometimes) are ones already used on Earth, why is it that slang terms weren't also translated?

 

Not everyone accepts the convergent evolution theory, that's just too out there to believe. I'm going with the "abducted from Earth and seeded in GFFA" theory. Yeah, it's a fantasy universe, but it still follows basic laws.

 

Hasn't it been explicitly stated that humans in the GFFA originated on Coruscant?

Plus, there's the question of what sort of time period "a long time ago" refers to. Humans have only existed on Earth for around 200,000 years. Humans had established 13 nations on Coruscant as of about 200,000 BBY. If "a long time ago" refers to more than just a few hundred years, there isn't any window of opportunity for humans to be transplanted.

 

And someone else decided that

I fail to see your point, but it's probably just because I'm tired, and I decided to latch onto the ol' American Pie instead of reading and comprehending everything here.

 

I don't think Basic is a literal translation of English. I think it's metaphorical to English. It functions in the GFFA like English. If anyone understands how languages evolve and specifically how English (both British and American versions) allows other words from other languages to be apart of the lexicon, then Basic makes sense as being an allegory of English without it actually being English.

So the reason we don't get direct translations for some words or phrases is because Basic has borrowed from other languages in the GFFA, and like English( I'm thinking specifically American English) sometimes those words or phases get bastardized. Then one also has to take into account where and how someone learned Basic and what region, on what planet and in what system they learned Basic. So we can have accents that change pronunciation, regional slang and idioms.

Then there is also the evolution of Basic and the evolution of it's rise as the universal (translated) language of the GFFA to be considered.

I think Basic (like English like French and Latin before it) is used as the language of commerce, diplomacy and mass communication. It's not actually English but it functions like English.

bran

 

Where? Because that's stupid as hell.

 

I thought they were stated to have come from Alderaan.

Anyways out, I like the idea that Basic is not English, but is the GFFA equivolent. Nice theory

 

I don't see why that would be "stupid as hell". There's got to be some reason why Coruscant has been so prominent in galactic history. I doubt it was just chosen at random to be the galactic capital, the source of all standardized measurements, etc.

But regardless, the fact that human society has been around in the GFFA for about as long as the human species has existed on Earth means that the "transplanted by aliens" theory is almost impossible. Unless the aliens happened to also be time travellers.

 

NEC says humans likely originated on Coruscant. But Na'al's a bit of a conniver, so I wouldn't make much of it. It seems like humans show up independantly on Coruscant and Corellia; they then use colony ships to slowly populate absolutely everywhere else. Including places as far away as the unknown regions-- even as far out as the satellite galaxies. Corellia's an artificial system, so it's unlikely humans evolved there-- Corellians are almost certainly transplanted Coruscanti, or transplaneted from whatever planet provided the 'seeds' of Coruscant. Coruscant itself can't be the human homeworld-- it's too differnet from Earth to evolve humans. Plus, Taungs apparently evolved there.

Best guess is a) the SW galaxy exists in an entirely different universe from our own, where humans originated on Coruscant somehow in spite of conditions being very different from Earth's, or b) the SW galaxy exists in out universe and humans originated on Earth and were somehow transported to the SW galaxy. Choice B is much more appealing and more likely from both an in- and out-of-universe perspective. IU there's nothing to indicate that the SW universe is separate from ourse (same natural laws, etc) and OOU the fact that human origins are kept intentionally vague by the powers that be.

The time constraints hadn't occurred to me, but they aren't much of an issue-- there's nothing to indicate that the events don't take place in the far future.

 

How different was Coruscant from Earth, before it became one giant city? Obviously, the planet wasn't always like that.

Also, the Taungs being native to Coruscant doesn't make it impossible for humans also to evovle there. It wouldn't be the only example of a single planet having more than one native, sentient species (see: Mon Cals & Quarren).

 

It has four moons, for one, and a different kind of star.

You're right that it's certainly not impossible for two sentient species to evolve on the same planet-- the problem, though, is having humans and another sentient species evolving at the same or similar times on the same planet. Evolution is very precise and random at the same time-- change just a few factors like the above, and the chances of humans evolving are minute if not nil.

 

I don't have much time on the computer at the moment (new laptop comes tuesday!) but I would like to input this passage from the New Essential Chronology

From the New Essential Chronology

The Architects populated the planets of the Corellian system with Dralls
and Selonians, as well as humans - an ambitious species believed
to have orginated on the Core World of Coruscant


So, in-universe, it is believed that humans orginated on Coruscant and the Architects (refering to builders of the Corellian system and Centerpoint, possibly the Rakata, Celestials, or Killik- though that seems unlikely) brought them to Corellia, and eventually these two groups of humans seeded the rest of the galaxy with thier fellow humans (though obviously races like the Architects and Rakata did some of this aswell)


Also, this


Coruscan'ts humans may have come into dominance on thier homeworld by defeating
a near-human grey-skinned species known as the Taungs in several series
of legendary battles. The humans who comprised the thirteen nations of the Battalions of Zhell


It goes on to speak of the near extinction the human race faced until the Taung were destroyed by a volcanic eruption, and eventually fled to become the Mandolorians.

Anyway, that basicly shows the fact that two similar species evolved on pre-city Coruscant, which seems to point to the possibility that both evolved on Coruscant. Also, the presence of a volcano points to the fact that Coruscant may have been human-sustaining in it's ancient past.

So, in my opinion, it is likely that humans could have evolved on Coruscant.

 

First off, Alderaan doesn't seem like a likely homeworld for humans because of the Killiks, and Corellia doesn't because of Centerpoint and the like. Coruscant seems the most likely option, but there are still some holes in it.

For one, the DK book Inside the Worlds of Episode I (on the same page as it's galaxy map) says that Coruscant is too far away from it's sun to be habitable (or maybe it's just comfortable) to humans, and thus they use mirrors to focus heat on the world to keep it nice for humans. With this data, humans could not have evolved on a world that was too cold. However, this could be fixed in a variety of ways to say that Coruscant was hotter in the past and was suitable for human evolution.

1. It's beginning an ice age.
2. More Venus-esque greenhouse effect in past to keep the planet at a human-agreeable temp (possible, considering the volcano).
3. Humans sparsely populated the equatorial region or something.
4. any combo of the above.

And if they didn't come from Coruscant, then I would think that they probably came from somewhere close to it: either from an inner planet in the same system or a close star system like Corulag, and not somewhere as far away as Nubia, Kuat, or Fondor.

 

Which is funny, because the Taungs in TOTJ didn't anything like humans. I'm going with the transplanted theory, because I can't just turn off my brain and accept the miraculous convergent evolution of a near identical species on a different type of planet in a different type of system with a different type of star in a different part of the galaxy (Coruscant is wayyyy closer to the center of the GFFA then we are to the Milky Way's core). And what about all the other Terran life we've seen or heard about, like ducks, dogs, horses, ferrets, etc? Did they just happen to evolve there too?

 

For all we know, Coruscant could have been Earth, with an insystem planetary remix.

 

Earth is a bit more than midway between the center and the rim in our galaxy, while Coruscant is in the Core. Using the GFFA's divisions, we'd be in the Mid Rim or Expansion Region.

 

I don't think Earth's comparative distance to the core with Coruscant really matters. If anything, it would be a very nice night-time display in the time before the planet was totally light-polluted.

And I don't see how the existence of the Taungs on Coruscant conflicts with the possibility of humans evolving on Coruscant. It's more than likely that the humans of the GFFA did not evolve on a world exactly like Earth in every way. There are more than two ways to sheer a Wookiee, or however the saying goes, so I don't think that all the properties of Earth need to be present to produce humans on a SW planet.

 

Yeah, because the increased radiation wouldn't affect anything.

Do you realize how many different factors (dependent on the Earth) made us into what we are today?

 

Not much, really, and Coruscant isn't *that* close to the Core, in comparison with other possible worlds. The biggest radiation source any primitive Coruscanti would need to worry about is their sun. Yes, the stars are closer together, but current Coruscant seems more concerned with heating it up with mirrors *with* radiation from its sun than keeping radiation from other stars or even Corusca (or whatever their sun is called) away.

Duh. Lots. That doesn't mean every single detail of our evolution has to be repeated on the SW human homeworld. You can climb a mountain from the north side but that doesn't mean it is impossible to climb the mountain from the south side.

 

And who said GFFA humans were exactly like we are here on Earth? (Excuse my spelling)

They have a tendency to be red-haired, which I don't think corresponds to patterns here on Earth. Green-eyes, more common on earth but very abundent in the GFFA (much to Ex's dismay). They may have faster metabolism's, explaining the lack of portly people, who knows. Depending on the planet they grew up on they may have a wide range of differences.

If humans are going to evolve somewhere, they are obviously going to have the same basic traits of humanity, or they wouldn't be human.

That's one thing I don't like about science. They (at least the teachers I have) try and say it's impossible to have life without the basic things humans need. They disregard possible methane or nitrogen (or other) breathing creatures that could exist. So basicly, scientists are looking for HUMAN(oid) life on other planets.

 

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