Amph Batman in print and animation

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ender Sai, Sep 16, 2013.

  1. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    Feb 18, 2001
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    Based on the number of people wanting to discuss the DC animated Batfilms in the Census thread, plus the volume of people who love the movies but haven't read any of the core books, I'm starting this thread to discuss Batman in his non-cinematic interpretation.

    Topics would therefore cover:

    * Batman books - pre- and post-New 52 iterations, including classics like TKDR; Year One; The Long Halloween; Hush; Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth; the Killing Joke, etc etc

    * Batman series: Not just the Adam West one, but the Batmas: TAS; Batman Beyond; The Batman; The Brave and the Bold, and Beware the Batman

    * DC Animated Universe films: Mask of the Phantasm; Sub-Zero; Return of the Joker; Gotham Knights; Year One; TDKR; Under the Red Hood; Batman/Superman (Public Enemies & Apocalypse); Justice League: Flashpoint Paradox; Justice League: The New Frontier; Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths; Justice League: Doom

    * Batman games: Probably more how the Arkham games fit into, and respect, continuity.

    Mask of the Phantasm held a special place for a lot of Batman fans as arguably the best Batman film made. It still holds up as does the entire animated series in terms of its place in the canon - but is that assessment still valid after the seminal Frank Miller Dark Knight Returns adaptation, starring Robocop as Batman, has been released?

    If not Phantasm, what is your favourite animated Batman film?

    Note: Mod-approved thread.
    Last edited by Ender Sai, Sep 16, 2013
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  2. VadersLaMent Chosen One

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    Apr 3, 2002
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    My favorite Batman stuff ocurred just before The Crisis On Infinite Earths. Roughly the Detective Comics issues were in and around 540+ and the Regular Batman title was 375+.

    The Detective Comics writer was Dog Moench and the artists were Gene Colan and Bob Smith whom if I am not mistaken did Marvel's Dracual for the longest time giving it its dark and mysterious look. In these particular issues batman dealt with Nocturna and Nightslayer and at one point Batman becomes Nightslayer. It was my initial journey into comics along with X-Men, specifically Alpha Flight and X-men: The Gift.
  3. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    I think so, yes. The animated version of TDKR is really well done from a technical standpoint, but I think a lot of the book's strengths were muddled in the conversion to the form; by contrast, Phantasm is built to work in its medium of choice from the ground up, and it shows. There's a bit of bias in there in that I find pre-Batman Bruce Wayne to be somewhat more interesting to look into than the now-overdone (Obviously not at the time the original comic was released, of course) old Batman scenario.
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  4. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    Feb 18, 2001
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    Ah, Gene Colan. Great artist, and sadly missed.

    This is an example of his Batman. Very classic in the Adams/O'Neil vein:

    [IMG]
  5. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    Fair points in all. I suspect for me I'm viewing TDKR as a whole, so I'm filtering in the experience of reading and enjoying the book to the film. Having said that, though, I still think it's damned well done on its own as an adaptation.

    I need to rewatch Phantasm, it's been years... Plus let's face it, Kevin Conroy is the man when it comes to playing Batman.
  6. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Not much was muddled with TDKR when it was adapted. Not that I could tell even knowing what was what.
  7. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    The plot was slightly shifted to fit two films, and the narration was removed. But I suspect part of what Ramza might be referring to is the news scenes. It's been suggested before at least that they didn't translate as well to the screen as they did on the page.
  8. Volderon Jedi Master

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    Jul 23, 2007
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    What are your guys thoughts on Grant Morrisons entire Batman run?

    And Phantasm owns TDKR. Conroy, Hamill, great soundtrack, great animation. Cant go wrong. I love TDKR but still. Phantasm holds a special place in my heart.
    Last edited by Volderon, Sep 16, 2013
  9. Jabba-wocky Force Ghost

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    I think one has to give substantial credit to Phantasm for having an original story. In general, adaptations of highly successful material have a good chance of being highly successful as well, even when they make a lot of mistakes in translation. It's something else to put together a novel plot that still captures people's imagination and becomes a defining mark in the overall mythology.
  10. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    The news scenes, plus the sort of necessary cleanliness that an animation model requires versus the original Miller/Janson art kind of made the whole thing feel a bit more controlled and uniform in a way that works against what the work is going for. Strictly personal preference, I'm aware.

    Not the best thing Morrison ever did, not the best Batman run of all time, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. I really want to reread it at some point to catch more of his buildup to the ouroboros theme, now that I know that's the destination.
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  11. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    I quite liked Morrison's run. It's got a few spotty moments, but generally it's quite good.
  12. Volderon Jedi Master

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    I came in late to Morrisons run, my first ever Batman comic I bought was RIP where Batmans empty cowl and cape are on the cover. I was quite confused when I read it but later learned it was a part of a series. I thought the ending to it was not quite up to par with the entire run though. It was difficult with the new continuity of the new 52 kind of.
    Last edited by Volderon, Sep 16, 2013
  13. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    I most appreciated Morrison listening to Kevin Smith interview him for the Fat Man on Batman podcast. It's only there that Morrison's genius with respect of the Bat truly comes out. Plus, I really enjoyed Dick Grayson as Batman and Damian Wayne as Robin - Grayson was a good Batman IMHO.
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  14. Volderon Jedi Master

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    Jul 23, 2007
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    Some of the greatest moments of reading Batman pre new 52 was Dick as Batman. I wish they would have kept him as Batman for a while longer. And his chemistry with Damian was great. Having a joking Batman with a stern Robin was a perfect reading experience.
  15. Frank T. Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    A pattern has begun to form in my life. About every ten years I get interested in Batman again. I'm just beginning one of these phases right now so I'm putting together a reading list and hunting for the issues I need. I started reading in the late '80s so I know what I like from that point on but I'd like to read more pre-Crisis. I'm mostly interested in early Detective issues and good stories from the '70s and early '80s. What do you got for me?
  16. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    Definitely check out the first volume or two of the Batman Archives, which cover his first appearances as written by the legendary Bill Finger and Gardner Fox, and as drawn by such greats as Jerry Robinson, Sheldon Moldoff, and Unidentified Bob Kane Ghost #1.
    Last edited by Ramza, Sep 16, 2013
  17. Darth_Smeagol Jedi Master

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    Morrison had a lot of intresting ideas but the execution was a little lacking to me. The run on Batman & Robin with Dick and Damian was definitely the high point for me.

    I hear good things about what Scott Snyder is doing in the new 52 now but I haven't read any of it. At the time the new 52 seemed like a good time to get off the comics bandwagon.
  18. Volderon Jedi Master

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    Jul 23, 2007
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    His first 6 issues in Batman were golden. Then it kind of slides. The art though, my god, Greg Capullo is fantastic and the hardest worker.

    Death of the Family was a generic Joker tale with little to no lasting impact because the next week after it was done Batman INC 9 came out and we all know what happened in that one. So it cheapened DOTF. Zero Year is ok but again, do we really need another origin for Batman? I get that Year One doesnt work now with this continuity but still.
  19. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    Feb 18, 2001
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    Batman in New 52 is the least affected character. The history of the character is more or less retained, unlike the rebooted Superman/Wonder Women et al. The only material change, really, is the costume which is meant to look more armoured and lacks the underwear on the outside.

    So, Dark Knight/Batman/Detective New 52? Worth a read.
  20. Frank T. Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    any objection to me getting the Batman Chronicles edition instead of the Archives editions?
  21. Darth_Smeagol Jedi Master

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    I have a hard time wrapping my mind around all of that history taking place over the course of something like five years. He must have been changing Robins every six months.
  22. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    Feb 18, 2001
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    Ramza, what are your thoughts on Under the Red Hood?
  23. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    There's a scene in the first Court of Owls arc where Bruce is using face recognition contact lenses and you've got Dick Grayson aka Nightwing, Tim Drake aka Red Robin, and Damian Wayne aka Robin all there with him. Not to mention Jason Todd's out there as Red Hood, and Barbara Gordon's Batgirl again.

    Regardless, it's still a good read.
  24. Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost

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    Jul 2, 2004
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    I wasn't too impressed by Gotham Knight. Strangely, it used the same format and the same animators as The Animatrix, which I found infinitely more rewarding both in terms of enjoyment value and contribution to the canon.

    I did like the opening music used at the beginning of the Scarecrow segment, though.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 16, 2013
  25. Volderon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2007
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    Yeah thats what I have a hard time thinking too. That timeline didnt really work so who knows why they suggested it.

    And Gotham Knight is the only DC Animated Movie that I hated. I didnt find anything good about it.
    Last edited by Volderon, Sep 16, 2013