Amph Batman in print and animation

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ender Sai, Sep 16, 2013.

  1. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Multiple authors? Were there any tonal or plot inconsistencies?
  2. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    Um, yes, because there were multiple authors :p

    It's generally worth a read if only for Feudal Gotham ruled by the criminals. Oh, and also Two-Face prosecuting Gordon while Harvey Dent acts as defence. Oh, and Batman working at understanding the new status quo. The Scarecrow storyline gets a lot of praise, but it was honestly the weakest part in my eyes.

    The later War Games story arc has a few similarities to No Man's Land but goes off the rails in the third act, though Batman's epilogue about how it's like starting out all over again was pretty cool.
  3. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    Rucka's novel is a good adaptation. It does by necessity skip some things, or just breeze over them. But it gives you the central story and focuses in on the big three characters (Batman, Gordon and Joker) and their journey. I'd recommend reading that and then the graphic novels to give you a better structure to it all.
  4. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    There were plenty of original material in the three films. Using comic book story points to craft their story around is no different from other comic book films that have done that over the years. In fact, it is about as close to what fans want out of said film.

    The multiple authors is because there were then and now, many Batman comics and spinoff titles. Often with different writers working on said books. Back in the early 90's, there were three ongoing Bat books that took place in the modern day setting. Batman, Detective Comics and Shadow Of The Bat. Legends Of The Dark Knight, a fourth title, was an anthology series with different creative teams that would come and go. The main writing team would each write more than one story, but only for an arc and then they were done until they came up with another story. The book was mostly set in the first two years of Batman's career, before Dick Grayson's parents were killed and he became Robin. Some of the stories could count as part of the lore, such as "Shaman" and "Venom", while others like "Blades" and "Faces", could go either way. They were up to the individual read if they wanted to include them. However, from time to time, the book was used as a series set in the present day Bat books, when the writers and editors needed a fourth book to tell the story. Starting in 1993, spinoff titles such as Robin, Catwoman, Azarel and Nightwing were created to profit off the success of the main titles, while appealing to the audience that wanted those titles. They would crossover into the main books, whenever an event story was crafted, such as "No Man's Land" and "Legacy". A quarterly Bat book was added in 1995 and would focus on different characters and set at different times. The book would come out in the months where there was a skip week, which was an extra week where not much was published based on the calendar.

    The writers would each have a book. Batman was written by Doug Monech from 1992 until 1998, SOTB was written by Alan Grant and Detective was written by Chuck Dixon, who also wrote Robin and Nightwing's books, while doing a stint on Catwoman before being replaced by Monech. Because Dixon was writing three titles, he would often crossover subplots and characters. When the story arc crossovers occurred, all three writers would work together to plot out the story, working with Jo Duffy who wrote the first year on Catwoman's book and Dennis O'Neil who wrote Azrael's book. By the time "Cataclysm" ended, a decision made by the assistant editors and somewhat reluctantly approved by O'Neil who was the group editor, resulted in the firing of all three writers off the main Bat books. Though Dixon was only fired to try to avoid favoritism. He would continue to write Nightwing, Robin and the new series, Birds Of Prey. For "No Man's Land", new writers would come on and if I recall, they would each write an arc on their own. Or they would co-write with one on each book. Greg Rucka, Ed Brubaker, Devin Grayson, Larry Hamma and Bob Gale became the reoccurring writing team on the Bat books. After the crossover ended, the books went back to their individual runs and didn't crossover again for a year.
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  5. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Read Death of the Family. That was awesome. Much better than the Court of Owls stuff. The Joker. Wow.
    Don't know how it ranks with all of the other Joker stuff but I loved it.
  6. Volderon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2007
    star 4
    WHAT! You liked it better than Owls? Granted the latter half of owls wasnt too good but the first 5-6 issues I thought were amazing. I didnt like DOTF at all and all of Joker's "you complete meeeeee I really lurv u Batmannnn." The art though...the art is always the best part of the current Batman series.
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  7. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Note-Still getting into Batman so I don't know what is all good or not.
    The first arc of Owls was way too weird for me. The 2nd one was better but still weird with the reveal at the end. Just didn't feel like Batman as much as DOTF did. The Joker was over the top but I enjoyed the whole thing. Now to catch up on the tie-ins.
  8. Volderon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2007
    star 4
    Haha I can see how its weird for sure. I remember I got into Batman during RIP (Grant Morrison's run). Now THAT was weird and had me going...so this is what Batman comics are like? I'm not sure I like them...

    From what I hear the Owls tie ins are worth it but not DOTF but definitely check it out for yourself.
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  9. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That would be weird. Starting where he died. The Nightwing comics volumes 1 and 2 were great. Batgirl 1 for what I read of it was good, need to find the rest of the Owls tie ins and then on to the rest.
  10. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    star 6
    The thing is, you can like whatever you want - the great thing about Batman is that there are so many different takes on the character that everything counts in some way.

    And jumping in with Grant Morrison mid-run is...yeah, I dunno :p Morrison's entire 7-year (6-year?) run is predicated on the fact that everything that happened in Batman is canon in some way or another, and then he gets all psychedelic about it. Some of the stories are really easy to jump into, but it's not quite the easiest "pick up and read and have a wild time" bunch of stories because he covers a lot of ground. That said, if you wound up liking it, awesome!
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  11. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    So being a big fan of the Arkham video games, I've decided to jump into Batman comics, starting with Year One, and I'll be heading into The Long Halloween.

    My question for those who've already read a decent number of storylines is whether it's necessary to pick up any of the spin-offs - the extended Bat-family comics? Am I fine just sticking to the main lines? Will the big events like Knightfall and No Man's Land make sense just reading the core titles?
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Okay, this a bit tricky.

    Reading for the trade will often include the tie-in issues and depending on the material, sometimes some subplots will be cut out. In the original trade for "KnightsEnd", they edited down Robin #13 by removing the plot points from his ongoing title that didn't affect the main story and left out Catwoman #13. Likewise, in that same storyline, Catwoman had her own ongoing storyline that tied into the main storyline, but only issue #12 was included and only through a recap, do you know why she's there. But that plot isn't resolved in the trade.

    Other times, the tie-in issues are left intact and will stand alone for the most part. It depends on what year you're reading. "No Man's Land" left quite a few issues out, so there is that. The current editions of the "Knight Trilogy" leave out the entire "Knightquest: The Search" arc, in order to make room for "Prodigal". And that was only done because of "The Dark Knight Rises". Then you have Grant Morrison's work, which is confined to just one Bat book except for "The Resurrection Of Ra's al Ghul" and that crossed over between Batman, Detective Comics, Robin and Nightwing. Otherwise, the main story is told in Morrison's book and he leaves some references to tie-ins that you don't have to read, as they are optional.

    This is all if you're doing trades. If you go for back issues, its a different story. Detective Comics and Robin often tied together because they shared the same writer, in this case, Chuck Dixon. More often than not, if the book has the same writer or a character that is present most of the time in the satellite books, then there will be a tie-in of some sort.

    Also, after "Year One", you should read "Batman And The Monster Men" which has his first meeting with Hugo Strange and "Batman And The Mad Monk", which was his first encounter with the supernatural. Both stories feature Carmine Falcone and Sal Maroni and serves as a lead into "The Long Halloween". Likewise, you should read "The Man Who Laughs" which is the first encounter with the Joker and if you can find it, "Four Of A Kind" which has Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, the Riddler and Man-Bat's origins. The trade is a bit harder to find. "Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper" expands upon Catwoman's origin. Then you should go into "The Long Halloween".
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  13. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Wasn't there one where Bats turns into a vampire and murders everything?
  14. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    Jul 13, 2008
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    There were three, actually: Red Rain, Bloodstorm, and Crimson Mist; now they've all been collected in the handy Tales of the Multiverse: Batman - Vampire trade paperback. Not sure I'd recommend it for the cover price of $20, but if you can find it cheap it's certainly a decent Elseworlds jog.
  15. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Thanks for the in-depth response. I'll definitely pick up the issues you've mentioned at the bottom before reading The Long Halloween. I'll also ensure to look into the trades that leave out key cross-overs per your advice.
  16. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Sinister, the Man Who Laughs should be available on Comixology - that's where I got it from.
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I just got myself the complete back issues of "Venom" and finished getting the rest of "Mudpack". 50 cents each at Half Price Books.


    Actually, that is a good price for three books. I only have the first two, but I really enjoyed them. Not quite what I was expecting with the first one, but pretty well done.

    The correct order is "Year One", "Her Sister's Keeper", "Monster Men", "Mad Monk", "The Man Who Laughs", "Four Of A Kind", "The Long Halloween" and "Dark Victory"/"When In Rome". The last one was a Catwoman mini-series that took place during the bulk of DV. There is also "Dark Halloween", which was trade that has the first three Halloween specials by Loeb and Sale, which is what lead to the creation of THL. You can find them in the DH trade or individually as "Fear", "Madness" and "Ghosts". Any other questions, feel free to ask.

    If you have an HPB in your area...raid it.

    I don't do downloads, so I wouldn't know. If it is, that's a good place to go.
  18. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    What's everyone's take on Snyder and Capullo's Zero Year? I'm finding it to be a refreshing look at Batman - he's the same, but different. It's pretty exciting, IMO.
  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Can't help you there since I'm not reading the DCnU.
  20. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    star 6
    I really wish that the nu52 had been like this from the get-go, where they pay homage to the mythos/history of the characters but really try and do something new and good, as opposed to, well, what we've been given.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    That's because it was sprung on everyone so late in the game, that they didn't know what to do. Not just that, but editorial changing their mind a lot doesn't help either.
  22. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    I'm aware, I'm saying that I'd probably enjoy the nu52 a lot more if it had been as fresh as Zero Year seems to be.
  23. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I dunno. Cracked.com basically put that it goes completely against the characterization of the Bat, and it turns into a bizarre and hilarious slasher picture.
  24. DantheJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 5
    Not to mention Kelly Jones draws Batman with the horns of his cowl so long, they might as well be murder implements.
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  25. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    That only happens in Crimson Mist, and that's explained by
    Show Spoiler
    his massive fall from grace over the course of the events in Bloodstorm, and Jim and Alfred bringing him back despite his specific requests to not be unleashed because he knows his bloodlust will overtake him. It's completely in line with what Batman himself continually warns about what will happen if he ever actually did take the Joker's life, coupled with supernatural compulsion.


    Also, general pro-tip: Cracked's advice on comics is garbage.
    Last edited by Ramza, Dec 1, 2013
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