Amph Batman in print and animation

Do you mean TV series, or animated movies?

TinyTony, did you notice Batman and Flash were wearing New 52 costumes?

Have any of you guys been listening to Fat Man on Batman?

 

Well I assume the Adam West TV series comes before everything else

But anything animated. Movies and TV. Hearing a lot of good things about Mask of the Phantasm and Dark Knight Returns, but wouldn't want to watch them out of order

 

I'm not familiar with New 52 so it's not something I would have noticed. All the costumes were pretty awesome. I did like that Aqualad appeared in the story as he was created by Greg Weisman and others for "Young Justice" television series. And thanks to that series, I recognized a lot of other familiar faces. Since I'm not a devout comic book fan I'm sure I miss a lot of nods and cool references like that.

 

This.Bringing back Jason considerably reduced the impact of the Death in the Family story, cheap 1-800-KIL-ROBN stunt notwithstanding. Especially the way he was brought back. I didn't like Under the Red Hood that much but at least his return there was handled much better.

Same for the return of Batgirl, since it also somewhat diminishes the impact/consequences of The Killing Joke. When I started reading DC comics I was first acquainted with Barb Gordon as Oracle, not as Batgirl, and her role as the l33t haxor of the metahuman crowd was simply too awesome.

 

I loved the plot twist of Mask of the Phantasm because it was pretty obvious, but it was still very effective.

 

"Pointing out" - the issue here is that that's not really what's shown, is it? Batman doesn't kill the Joker in a fit of rage, and Gordon even makes it clear that they're gonna bring the bastard in to "show him that our way works."

The panels in question, too - Batman's clearly not gripping the Joker's throat, and the laughter dies as their feet move off-panel. The beam of light is the beam of light from the joke - the killing joke - and is clearly the approaching group of cops, and the entire interaction between Batman and the Joker is totally in keeping with what Gordon asked Batman to do. Part of the issue with Morrison's interpretation is that he's saying it's the "final" Batman story, which would be all well and good except years of continuity have shown that the Joker survived this and Barbara was confined to a wheelchair afterwards.

Joseph Hughes says it better.

 

Yeah I haven't seen the movie but I read the series that its based on. You may like Batman: Knight of Vengeance as its a Flashpoint tie in Comic that I thought was absolutely brilliant.

 

Yeah, I love Morrison but a look at Moore's script shows that wasn't the intended interpretation.

 

The explanation is that Dick's age was pushed up to being like sixteen, rather than twelve. That Jason's tenure was also short, instead of three years like Morrison wrote and that Tim was never really Robin.

Because DC wants the older heroes like Superman and Batman to be in their mid 20's, though, Batman has to be 30. Somehow, kids would relate better to a person in their 20's, than in their 30's.

Not quite. Jason was showing signs of recklessness in Batman #416. Then in Batman #424, its implied that he had killed Felipe Gonzales. At the start of "A Death In The Family", he blew a planned bust because of his impatience and his growing anger and recklessness.

The point was for Bruce to finally face his guilt over what happened with Jason, which was in preparation for "The OMAC Project", "Infinite Crisis" and Morrison's run.

We did find out what happened before "Black Mirror". Batman #458 said that he left Gotham with his mother and were living in Chicago.

The film was supposed to be the finale, but the show was then renewed. Even before then, I didn't think that she had killed him. Mostly because whatever episodes were left, they would need the Joker in them.

"Batman: The Animated Series" volumes one, two and three.
"Mask Of The Phantasm"
"Superman: The Animated Series" volume one.
"Sub-Zero"
"Batman: The Animated Series" volume four.
"Superman: The Animated Series" volumes two and three.
"Justice League" volume one
"Mystery Of The Batwoman"
"Justice League" volume two
"Batman Beyond" volumes one through three.
"Return Of The Joker"
"Justice League Unlimited" volumes one and two.

Although, I'd recommend watching the JLU episode, "Epilogue" after watching the rest of the JLU series.

If you're talking about the animated films, they're mostly stand alone. Though I'd recommend watching "Year One" before "The Dark Knight Returns" since they're in the same continuity, even with different voice actors and character models. "Public Enemies", "Apocalypse" and "Unbound" are the only other films in the same continuity to each other, since all three are based on comic stories and follow a linear path. "Superman Vs The Elite" could fit in with those three films, but it doesn't really tie-in.

That's because the next film is "Justice League: War" which is an adaptation of "Justice League: Origin" by Johns and Lee.

 

I glanced at it, and came away with the impression that Frank Miller had lost his mind.

 

This seems to be the general consensus nowadays, though it could always be that his older work wasn't quite as good as people made it out to be, and thus when he got really famous and began trying new art styles and some bizarre writing styles people realized he wasn't as good as they thought he had been. Though Ronin and TDKR are excellent, imho, and deserve all the hype they get. Obviously Frank's later works haven't lived up to their predecessors, with some of it being downright awful.

Of course, he really might have just lost his mind, and there might be no other explanation for the sudden turn for the worse.

I find it very interesting how one of the greatest comic creators (and one of my personal favorites) seems to have taken a giant turn for the worse. I wish the old Frank would come back, I really do.

 

Sinister, I was talking about in the Red Hood film, not broader continuity sorry.

I picked up the entire animated series on iTunes for some ridiculous amount - like <$10 a season. Start with TAS; there are episodes in there which are truly astonishing. The first few episodes of Season 1 are a bit weak but it really finds its groove later. Episodes like "Mad Love", "Heart of Ice" (a brilliant take on Mr Freeze), "Over the Edge", "Almost Got 'Im" and "The Demon's Quest".

From there, grab the new DC movies - Year One, Under the Red Hood, TKDR. Yes, Mask of the Phantasm is brilliant and people rightfully adore it, but I'd argue that after 4 seasons of the animated series you need to change up the aesthetic a bit and come back to the style for Phantasm.

On a semi-related note; anyone been watching Beware the Batman? Thoughts?

 

All excellent recommendations.

As to Beware the Batman, I love it - I've been watching it regularly since it started and it's established a good tone and level of quality. The Metamorpho episode felt weak, but they followed it up with some good stuff.

That said, man, Katana never uses her katana. It's strictly a defensive weapon because you can't show a ninja chopping dudes in half on a kids' show, but it feels really awkward and limiting for her. This is just me being overly-analytical, but she was more competent before she put on her mask, simply because the sword makes it seem like she can't actually land a blow on anyone.

EDIT: also to add to darth-sinister 's list, definitely watch Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths after Justice League Unlimited; it was initially a direct sequel/tie-in to the series, but some changes were made. As it stands, it's a fantastic adaptation of Morrison and Quitely's JLA: Earth 2. It also has a Baldwin brother acting as a totally respectable and rather good successor to the amazing Kevin Conroy as Batman, not to mention James Woods as Owlman, Batman's evil counterpart. Yes, that James Woods.

 

I've only done two episodes so far. I don't mind it but obviously TAS set such a ridiculously high benchmark that subsequent shows can't live up.

I also hate the character style. It's the same as Clone Wars, which looks idiotic too.

 

I wish Batman's costume was a bit more classic and less akin to extreme sports, but really, the show is surprisingly strong. It's still frustrating we lost Young Justice because of it, though.

I am pretty excited to see Lance "Major Cedric Daniels" Reddick as Ra's Al Ghul, though.

 

Not seen Beware the Batman yet, didn't care for the few episodes of Brave and the Bold that I watched.

Been a long time since I saw TAS, I should watch it again. I liked Batman Beyond/of the Future as a concept and it was mostly well executed. Return of the Joker is the only animated movie I have seen (at least that I can remember) and I thought that was pretty good. Hard to go wrong with Hamill and Conroy though.

 

There was one comics professional who did say something along those lines, after TDKR came out. Cited that 9/11 really sent him around the bend.

Ah, my bad. Nah, the film is a standalone film and all that you need is in it. The movie covers Batman #408-411, #426-429 and the bulk of "Under The Hood" storyline.

I've been watching it and it's pretty good. I like that the lesser known characters like Lady Shiva, Silver Monkey and Anarky are being used. Hopefully that toyline does well this Christmas to justify a second season. CGI is still expensive and after what happened with "Green Lantern", WB needs a strong presence at Christmas. Just ask "Transformers Prime".

Eh, I'm not a fan of William Baldwin's performance. I'd rather had that confrontation be with Conroy or Greenwood.

No, we lost it because the toys didn't do well and the network decided to cancel it. These shows depend on the strength of a toyline in order to keep going. "Batman Returns" had done well enough that B:TAS lasted without a toyline until the end of 1993, beginning of 94. "Green Lantern" did bad as a film and a toyline, thus no toyline was created for GL:TAS and thus it only lasted two seasons. That first year depended on the film.

 

I loved my BTAS figures. Still have a few in storage I think. My grandpa used to get them for me.

 

I only had a few from that line. I was already outgrown playing, but I had wanted to try my hand at collecting as a collector. I had only gotten Bane, Two-Face and Penguin. I had also gotten Nightwing and "KnightsEnd" Batman from the comic inspired line. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford to keep up so I stopped. No longer have those figures.

 

The discussion made me crack out Batman reborn for some Grayson and Damian stories.

Should be a new Fat Man on Batman today too; if you aren't listening, you should and here's why:

Kevin Smith is a huge Batfan, which should come as no surprise. But he's constructed a podcast which, per episode, is about 2 hrs with Kevin talking to key people in the Batman mythos. Because he's a fan, and because of his work, he gets access to all kinds of proper Batman personnel. To give you a taste, he's had Paul Dini; Jim Lee; Scott Snyder; Kyle Higgins; Greg Capulo; Geoff Johns; Kevin Conroy; Jeph Loeb; Mark Hammill; Dan Didio; Christopher Drake (Scored all the DC animated films); Adam West; Diedrich Bader; Bruce Timm, and Tara Strong.

It's easily my favourite podcast, and I say this with much love and affection for Dan Carlin's Hardcore History.

If you like your Batman, you should be listening to this.

 

I'm still not sure how I feel about Fat Man on Batman; the Morrison interview was absolutely fantastic, as were Hamill and Conroy, but sometimes the focus on the lives of the guests gets a little tiresome.

I really liked the Jim Lee episode because it was an interesting look at Image and Wildstorm and the 90s comics industry in general. I get a little irritated by the way Smith loves Batman one second then points out the absurdities of comic books the next - his audience already knows! We're there because we like comics! - but it's not a big enough thing to worry about.

Really glad he hasn't bothered to defend his own work Batman because...well, the less said, the better.

 

Nonsense, truly this is one of the all-time great Batman moments:


And yes, that is a scene from Year One he's attempting to ruin.

 

Here's a point-by-point rundown of the worst moments.

 

Batman Beyond is awesome. Older Bruce Wayne, Terry as the new Batman is a great choice.
Return of the Joker is Brilliant. Need to watch the Animated series in its entirety soon.

 

I've got so much catching up to do, having been on a reading hiatus from the end of 1997 and into 2007. A long story as to why, but suffice to say, I've been coming through back issues to get caught up. Not on everything from that time period, but quite a bit. Plus, been getting stuff from before I started reading regularly.