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Amph Batman Really Begins: Batman in Chronological Order: Disc. Batman Versus Predator III: Blood Ties!

Discussion in 'Community' started by Rogue1-and-a-half, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Clayface Walks Again! ? Bill Finger, Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson, George Roussos

    <img src="http://www.comicbookdb.com/graphics/comic_graphics/1/72/34506_20060510222120_large.jpg">

    Detective Comics, #49 (March, 1941)

    *This story can be found in The Batman Chronicles, Vol. 3.

    *As you might note, this cover actually goes with Blackbeard?s Crew & the Yacht Society, not this story.

    *I had a strangely positive reaction to Clayface?s origin story, which we talked about a while back. I am looking forward to seeing Basil Karlo return to wreak more havoc.

    *So, as this story begins, we are told that it has been ?not so long ago? that the original Clayface story took place. The movie being filmed in that story has been released and has been a big hit, making Julie Madison an up and coming young starlet.

    *Julie Madison gets a name change here to Portia Storme, which is a good pun.

    *Then, the discussion we?ve all been waiting for. Julie is finally fed up with Bruce?s layabout ways. ?If only you?d find yourself a career instead of being the public?s number one playboy!? ?Sorry, honey, I?m having too good a time to be bothered with anything remotely connected with work!? ?Then I?m sorry, Bruce. Until you decide to make something of yourself, I?m afraid our engagement is off!?

    *Girl, do you remember the time you told Bruce that a man dressed as a giant bat had caught you in the act of attempted murder and you had no explanation? And he stood by you? And now you?re dumping him because he?s too lazy? Ungratefulness, thy name is Madison.

    *Next thing we know, Karlo has escaped from the wreck of an ambulance transporting him to an asylum. Clayface is on the loose again!

    *Anyway, Batman and Robin tangle with Clayface at Argus Studios when Clayface tries to burn the studio down.

    *There?s a great visual of Batman and Clayface fighting like giants in the middle of a large model city. There?s a scene kind of like that in Mask of the Phantasm with the Joker. I just like the visual.

    *Anyway, Batman has to brave the fire to rescue Robin and so Clayface escapes.

    *Meanwhile, Clayface decides to take vengeance on Julie Madison, since she escaped his wrath last time. So, he sneaks onto the movie set wearing . . .

    *Oh my God.

    *He?s wearing a pink outfit, a hooded pink robe. What is up with all this pink stuff? Did I miss the memo about how all psycho killers had to start wearing pink or something? Was this breast cancer awareness month?

    *Batman and Robin catch up to him and attempt to rescue Portia Storme, who is also wearing a pink hooded robe. Then, in the kerfuffle, Clayface is able to fire off an arrow into Portia?s back. Batman and Clayface come to grips.

    *The following is said as the two roll down a flight of stone stairs, wrestling over a knife: ?I?ll kill you!? ?I?ll do my best to alter your plans!?

    *I?ll do my best to . . . ? That?s like the least likely line of action dialogue I?ve heard since, ?From my point of view, the Jedi blah blah? said while surfing toward your best friend on a lake of fire.

    *I?ve been in a couple of fights. Small ones. I generally said things like, ??BLEAARHGHSHG EHDG EHDGHSHEG OOOFHFD.? I never told anyone I was going to alter their plans.

    *So, anyway, then it?s revealed that the ?Portia? who got shot was actually Robin wearing the robe and a life preserver to protect himself from arrows. And Portia herself is dressed in a Robin costume!?

    *Batman and Robin are once again offered careers in the movies. Batman says they?ll get to that once there?s no more crime in the world. They leave, so I guess Portia gets to keep that Robin costume.

    *I seriously can?t tell you how weird it is seeing Julie Madison in a Robin costume.

    *Of course, that one?s for the road. After five appearances, including this one, Julie Madison is gone for almost twenty years now, her engagement with Bruce broken off and her role in the comic soon to be filled by someone else.

    *Again, I was mostly familiar with Clayface fro
     
  2. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    The Case of the Three Devils ? Bill Finger, Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson, George Roussos

    <img src="http://www.comicbookdb.com/graphics/comic_graphics/1/72/34507_20060510222145_large.jpg">

    Detective Comics, #50 (April, 1941)

    *This story can be found in The Batman Chronicles, Vol. 3.

    *Also, am I crazy for thinking this is actually kind of a great cover? I dig the mid action mode of it.

    *So, Batman and Robin encounter three guys in devil outfits. They get beat the hell up and the devils escape by doing numerous backflips.

    *They catch up to the devils again, as the devils try to fence the jewels they?ve stolen.

    *This culminates in a gunman staggering around with a comical look on his face, tongue sticking out, after being punched.

    *Robin hits a crook in the head with a book called Crime Does Not Pay. Which is a fine gag, except why would a fence own that book?

    *The devils escape in a car, but Robin breaks out his newest gadget, rocket powered roller skates, and follows them.

    *Because, you know, who would notice a kid in red and yellow and green following your car on rocket powered roller skates?

    *Here?s an interesting moment. A police officer arrives just as Batman is trying to leave the fence?s place. The two briefly converse and the cop reveals that he respects what Batman is trying to do. He lowers his gun and allows Batman to knock him unconscious.

    *This is another important step in Batman?s slow progress from wanted fugitive to ally of the police. We?re not to the Batsignal yet, but this is another step in the right direction.

    *So, then there?s a final clash with the three devils, all retired circus acrobats, atop a massive clock tower. They lose, of course, and justice prevails.

    *Man, this was like the most generic, uninteresting story I?ve come across in a long time on this trip. There just ain?t a lot to say about this one.

    *Next time, however, we?ll have more to say. Join me next time as we flash forward again for a special review. Last time, we looked at The Forensic Files of Batman; next time, we?ll head for the nineties and look at a somewhat less serious graphic novel. Join me next time for Batman Vs. Predator!
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I like the cover, too. But it does sound like there's really nothing to the story -- it's pretty color-by-numbers.
     
  4. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Batman vs. Predator is actually not that bad, IMO, although it's sequels got pretty tiresome.
     
  5. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Batman Versus Predator ? Dave Gibbons, Andy Kubert, Sherilyn Van Valkenburgh, Kij Johnson, Bob Kahan, Denny O?Neil, Diana Schutz

    <img src="http://www.comicbookdb.com/graphics/comic_graphics/1/157/62832_20070109084534_large.jpg">

    (Batman Vs. Predator: The Collection Edition, 1993)

    *So, this graphic novel collects the three issues of the Batman Versus Predator series. This series ran from December of 1991 to February of 1992. It is about . . . do I have to say what it?s about?

    *Well, let?s leap right in.

    *The story begins as two heavyweights have a boxing match, Bersaglio Vs. King. We then cut to a junkyard owner who?s dog, Satan, meets a fairly grim fate, judging from his corpse, one leg twisted up backwards behind his head. The junkyard owner is next, death being dealt by an unseen assailant.

    *Judging from the blood sprays in this sequence, this comic is not going to be for the squeamish.

    *So, in the aftermath of the fight, we?re introduced to the two feuding gangsters behind them, Alex Yeager, a tall, Nordic type with an eyepatch and Leo Borodin, a short squat Russian with a battered cigar. They seem to be working up to a gang war.

    *We?re also introduced to the Mayor, a fellow named Lieberman, and his sycophantic sidekick, Ray. They, walking with Alex Yeager, run into Gordon and Bruce.

    *It?s kind of interesting that this story introduces Gordon and Bruce together like this. It?s a big part of the early Batman mythos, which we?ve been looking at, that the two are good friends, though they stand for quite opposing things, at least on the surface ? Gordon as a dedicated, serious minded cop and Bruce as a shallow, wealthy playboy. In later incarnations, it seems to me, not as much is made of Bruce and Gordon as friends as it is in the early Golden Age stuff.

    *Gordon makes small talk: ?He?s a new investor in my corporation.? ?Diversifying, eh, Yeager? Not earning enough from CRIME?? ?Gordon! I?ve warned you before about these outbursts!? ?I?d love to chat, gentlemen, but duty calls.? ?Gordon!?

    *I?m totally going to start just blurting out, ?Not making enough from CRIME?? in random conversations.

    *So, as the winning boxer cuddles with his girl after the fight, guarded by a couple of Yeager?s men, a dimly seen figure drops in on them from the skylight and our new champion is quickly vanquished, last seen in a stylish close up reflection from his girl?s widened eye as she whimpers, ?Oh why why why why.?

    *So, Gordon lights up the Batsignal and there?s a great moment as Gordon and the police are investigating the crime scene. The girlfriend, who?s been untouched, is being escorted out when suddenly she freezes and begins to scream, ?No! No! Not not again!? ?It?s okay,? the policeman with her says as we see that Batman has entered from the window, ?He?s on our side, thank God.?

    *Gordon?s sidekick here is a red headed policewoman with glasses name of Kandowski.

    * ?Two guards. Blew their chests wide open. Never knew what hit them . . . hung their bodies up there. Killer forced King upside that wall. Marks on his body look like a net was used. Cut him to the bone. Then his . . . his head and spinal column were removed. He died hurting . . . a lot. We can?t find his trophy belt either. Oh, and . . . his hands are missing.? ?And the girl?? ?She wasn?t touched. But she won?t be making sense for a while. If ever.?

    *Batman pays a visit to Leo Brodin. Brodin swears he had nothing to do with it. Batman tells him that if that?s true, he?d better watch his back.

    *So, we?ve gotten a couple of panels that indicate that someone with Predator vision is watching Batman. As Batman swings away from Brodin?s dive, the dimly seen figure of Predator follows him, but upon turning the corner Batman has just swung around, Predator sees only a cat and a car pulling away.

    *In the back of the car, Predator sees a human head, but, Predator murmurs to himself, ?No shape. Wrong guy. Next round.? And then, for good measure, he eviscerates the cat. Damn.
     
  6. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    That actually sounds great, might have to pick that up at some point. There were so many crossovers during that time in comics that I kinda avoided them at the time.

    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b1/SPredator.jpg] [image=http://www.superherostuff.com/OtherItems/comics/images/superman_vs_aliens2_2.jpg]
    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/Robocop_VS_Terminator.jpg] [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Star_trek_xmen_1.jpg]

    However, the titular winner naturally has to be:

    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/69/AvPvtT.jpg]
     
  7. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    The Case of the Mystery Carnival ? Bill Finger, Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson, George Roussos

    <img src="http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/51-1.jpg">

    Detective Comics, #51 (May, 1941)

    *This story can be found in The Batman Chronicles, Vol. 4.

    *So, Bruce and Dick are taking a little drive through the country as this story begins. They happen across an amusement park owned by an old friend of Bruce?s, Col. Dawes and they stop in to take in the roller coaster.

    *Dick nearly bankrupts a carnie with a ball throwing booth and the carnie muses that Dick is a real ?boy wonder.?

    *When Bruce sees Col. Dawes, he is shocked to find that Dawes gives him the brushoff. Then, as they?re leaving, he notes that Col. Dawes was scratching his left leg . . . which Col. Dawes lost in the war. There?s something strange afoot here. Batman and Robin return to the amusement park that night.

    *So, they investigate the wax museum, but, when the caretaker nearly discovers them, they are forced to pretend to be wax figures.

    *It is worth quoting the caretaker at length: ?Hello, Napoleon! I just saw the Duke of Wellington. He was asking about you! And you, Hunchback . . . it?s time to ring the bells of Notre Dame! I never saw you two before. But no matter . . . you are welcome to join my little family. I?ll come back and talk to you later . . . hee hee!?

    *Amazingly, the caretaker is not the bad guy. Talk about a missed opportunity. He?s loony as a june bug.

    *So, sure enough, some gangsters have taken over the carnival and have Dawes locked up. They?re bringing in slot machines and such to increase revenue and others have been given free rein to pick pockets.

    *Unfortunately, Robin knocks over a wax statue and our heroes are captured and tied up.

    *Real boy wonder, that kid . . .

    *The caretaker comes and finds them and cuts them free, so they can go back to his little family. Then, he goes all Misery on them and says they can?t ever leave his family.

    *Okay, not really, but that would have been way more awesome than this story.

    *Then follows the mandatory action sequence in the carnival fun house. This is utterly terrible. One scene description should suffice: ?The Boy Wonder bounces up and down like a Jack-in-the-Box.? Good for him.

    *So, the ringleader, desperate to escape from Batman, commandeers a car on the roller coaster . . . and . . . waitaminute, he goes on the frigging roller coaster?

    *Batman uses the Ferris Wheel to get high above the track and leaps down into the car to take the ringleader down.

    *Wow, well, I got nothing to really say about this one. Pretty lame, if you ask me.

    *Next time, it?s the second issue of Batman?s third comic series, World?s Finest Comics as we check out The Man Who Couldn?t Remember! Well, it?s gotta be better than that stupid Witch story.

    And check out my Batman Review Index, still in the beginning stages!
     
  8. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    "I know -- I'll escape by getting on the circular ride that will take me right back to where I started!" Why does Batman even bother with the Ferris wheel? Just keep standing on the roller coaster platform.:p
     
  9. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    The Man Who Couldn?t Remember! ? Bill Finger, Bob Kane

    <img src="http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/worlds-finest/2-1.jpg">

    (World?s Finest Comics #2, Summer 1941)

    *This story can be found in The Batman Chronicles, Vol. 4.

    *So, with this issue, World?s Finest Comics gets its official name change, from World?s Best Comics, and Batman?s third comic series is well on its way to iconic status.

    *Anyway, there?s this gang war going on in Gotham City. I?ll just quickly name the major players: William Kendrick, special prosecutor appointed by the Governor; Big Tim Bannon, political boss of Gotham City; Mitch Mason, leader of the West Side gang; ex-District Attorney Graves, ousted on corruption charges; Trig Cooler, leader of the East Side gang; Ambrose Taylor, head of the Citizens? Committee Against Crime.

    *Anyway, t hen some stuff happens. The end.

    *Well, anyway, Kendrick makes it known that he?s come into possession of a little black book that has lots of information about corruption in Gotham and that he?s going to start cleaning house. Taylor calls him and sets up a meeting so that the Citizens? Committee can help Kendrick if he needs it.

    *Batman decides to keep an eye on this meeting so that nothing can go wrong. He arrives too late, finding a scene of carnage and a few gunmen. Batman gets clouted on the head, but the gunmen flee. Batman discovers that Kendrick is dead, though before he expires, he tells Batman that the black book can be found in the ?Devil?s Dungeon.? Ambrose Taylor has been creased on the skull by a bullet but is still alive.

    *Batman takes Taylor, still unconscious, out the window; he knows that Taylor is the only witness to Kendrick?s murder. Batman and Taylor are shot at by some thugs from Bannon?s group; Graves is with them.

    *So, Batman takes Taylor to Linda Page?s apartment. She is, of course, wearing her nurse uniform when he comes in. Does she sleep in that thing?

    *Taylor comes around, but he can?t remember who shot Kendrick. He remembers seeing it happen, but he can?t . . . quite . . . remember . . .

    *Batman, Robin, Taylor and Linda Page (who came in case Taylor had a relapse!), sneak into Kendrick?s house. Batman discovers the black book behind a painting of a Devil?s Dungeon. Then Tim Bannon and his goons come in. Cue fracas.

    *Batman uses his night vision goggles again in this sequence.

    *During the fight, Taylor gets knocked on the head and when he comes around again, he shouts that he remembers who killed Kendrick! Specifically he remembers that he did it! And then Trig Cooler?s boys came in and shot him!

    *This is the most hilariously gleeful confession in the history of murders. Taylor is comically thrilled that he remembers that he was the killer and now he can confess to Batman!

    *So, Batman punches Taylor in the face and sends over a balcony to his death. It?s revealed that Taylor was the real head of the West Side gang and Mitch Mason was only his lieutenant.

    *Well, that?s . . . I don?t know if I think this twist is actually kind of clever or if I just think it?s stupid.

    *Next time, we?ll take another break from our chronological journey to check out another more modern classic. It?s the sequel to our last modern classic. Join me next time for Batman Vs. Predator II: Bloodmatch!

    *In the meantime, check out my site, where I'm slowly reposting all my Batman reviews!
     
  10. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Holy crap, Batman vs Predator II was the first Batman comic I ever read! So many memories.

    As for The Man Who Couldn't Remember... interestingly enough, neither can I.
     
  11. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    That actually sounds like it would be completely awesome if someone took that premise and executed it in a serious fashion. Special prosecutor bearing down on corruption, political drama, searching for hidden evidence, this very noir setup of a man with amnesia who's key to figuring out this hellish mystery and who turns out to be the killer himself -- it just needs a way, way better delivery on that final twist. I could see getting a great Batman mystery out of that.
     
  12. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 2, 2000
    Batman Versus Predator II: Bloodmatch ? Doug Moench, Paul Gulacy, Terry Austin, Carla Feeny, Lovern Kindzierski, Todd Klein, Lynn Adair, Bob Kahan, Simon Bisley

    (Batman Versus Predator II: Bloodmatch, 1995)

    <img src="http://www.comicbookdb.com/graphics/comic_graphics/1/150/75455_20061214182331_large.jpg">

    *So, this series ran for four issues, beginning in October of 1994; this is the TPB, published in 1995, which collects all four issues of the series.

    *The original series had started back in December of 1991 and had only three issues. So this one is longer and came not quite three years later.

    *Moench, it should be mentioned, was also the author of that fabulous Forensic Files of Batman book that I looked at a while back. I hope he brings the same sensibility to this series. If he does, this might just exceed the original.

    *So, this one starts with Batman breaking up a drug deal gone bad. He?s after a big drug dealer named Terraro.

    *The Huntress enters the story on page five, in a half page panel, posed dramatically leaning forward and with her legs spread in a wide gunman?s stance.

    *You know, I bet that posing wasn?t entirely accidental.

    *Okay, so I really know nothing about the Huntress. So, I will doubtless be pissing off all the people who consider her one of the finest characters to come out of the franchise or whatever. My apologies in advance.

    *I love the pairing of a purple spandex outfit with a neckline cut to the bellybutton and no pants with a simple gold cross at the throat. I mean, that?s classy stuff. She must be religious, huh?

    *So, the punk pulls a gun on Batman, but Huntress nails his arm to a nearby post with an arrow.

    *In a nice, brief nod to crossovers, Batman sees the arrow fly in and mutters to himself, ?Green Arrow? No. The Huntress.? I actually totally missed that the first time. It?s really peripheral text on the panel of the arrow going through the punk?s arm, so it was kind of hard to focus on.

    *So, while Batman is taking the Huntress to task for her overly harsh methods, he just grabs the dude?s arm and yanks it off the frigging arrow. Which is pretty grim itself, dude.

    *Batman underlines a central thesis: ?Because I call myself Huntress? Is that your problem? Like you?re not a manhunter.? ?I don?t hunt. I stop.? After hunting.

    *Yes, yes, I know, you just added the Huntress to a series about Predator. You?re very clever.

    *It is a nice touch that this story is narrated by both Batman and Huntress. They have little narration boxes popping up that give their internal monologues. They are easy to tell apart; Batman?s boxes are blue and the text in script; Huntress? boxes are purple and type set. So, it allows the comic to let us know what both characters are thinking, even in a scene that they share, like this one. That?s pretty great.

    *So, then we get a shot of a comet streaking across the sky and then we see a weird looking television screen playing the end of Batman Vs. Predator with the bad Predator in that one getting kacked by his own people. Then as we here Bruce opine that the Predators won?t be back now that they?ve met what lives in Gotham, we see a Predator arm through a disc and behead a stone statue that looks more or less like Batman.

    *Yeah, so, I like this. I like that this isn?t just another Predator comes to Gotham story. It?s actually a direct sequel to the first story. Batman defeated the first Predator, but while he thought he might have scared the Predators away, it seems that he?s in fact put himself in the ol? gunslinger corner. Once you?re a legend, you?re always a target.

    *So, there?s a brief flash here of Huntress as Helen Bertinelli, a teacher in Gotham?s public school district. She?s become the Huntress because of the endless parade of teenage deaths she?s witnessed as a teacher.

    *That?s actually kind of clever. I think we?ve all had a teacher that we?d like to have seen in purple spandex and no pants. If you know what I mean.

    *Not to
     
  13. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    So, as I mentioned earlier, this was the first Batman comic I ever read. I distinctly remember finding the premise novel and interesting but then, I was like 10 at the time, and this had Batman fighting an alien from a movie I wasn't allowed to see tag-teaming with a sexy teacher. C'mon. In hindsight it's not terribly good and...

    Actually come to think of it I'm not entirely convinced I thought it was good then, either. The miniseries belonged to an acquaintance of mine, who, being the sort of fellow who got an allowance, had become the first person in our rather close-knit fourth grade class to buy comic books (I was rather jealous at the time as this was before a reasonable amount of disposable income and... uh... alternative acquisition routes... were available to me). So while the rest of us were stuck mulling over the odd X-Men comic that came with our action figures (X-Men #1! Jim Lee on art! I thought he was the greatest, and holy ****, this Gambit guy is awesome and all that jazz. To be young again.), he was beginning to amass a decent collection of used issues purchased at bargain price from the local Half-Priced Books.

    Needless to say, the inevitable "Man you've got to let me borrow _____" conversations cropped up, and eventually I read through Batman vs Predator II, as we all did and... I don't think any of us read another Batman comic for a long while. Maybe it was the prevailing Marvel-centric attitude (They had Spider-Man, Spider-Man had a cartoon that looked like his actual comics, ergo...), maybe it was this comic itself, but it would be another five years before I got my hands on another Batman comic, and another three after that before I got seriously into the character after catching a lot of Adam West reruns on TVLand.

    So what did I remember? I remembered the Huntress being a character absolutely none of us were familiar with (More on that in just a bit), I remember thinking the Predator was a cool concept and that perhaps he should fight Wolverine, and I remember being utterly unimpressed by Batman's seeming invulnerability. It just didn't measure up to the idealized (And as I have found out very recently, entirely accurate) memories I had of the fantastic Batman: The Animated Series cartoon, and I, being a young stupid git, was unaware that that had its own dedicated in-canon comic. Thus, I read the thing, drew a little fan comic with Robin taking his (IMO rightful) spot at Batman's side, called it "BLOOD VENGEANCE" because, like I said, I was 10 years old, and promptly forgot about the whole thing until Rogue's mention brought all of this flooding back.



    TL;DR - THIS COMIC SUCKS BUT IT WAS ALSO MY FIRST BATMAN COMIC SO IDK.

    Anyway, with regards to the Huntress, while I don't know a lot about her post-Crisis other than that she's "NOT AFRAID TO KILL" because that makes her "DEEP" and "COMPELLING" and "A FANSERVICE EXCU - I MEAN EDGY" but back before Crisis on Infinite Earths...

    Crap, I probably need to explain Crisis on Infinite Earths.

    In the beginning there was one DCU, and Batman and Superman and a whole bunch of other guys were in it, and it was good.
    [image=http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/allstar3.jpg]

    But nothing gold can stay, and so eventually a whole bunch of superhero titles got cancelled until... well, you'll inevitably hear about this later, as it's especially pertinent to Batman, but basically superheroes came back into vogue, starting with Carmine Infantino's legendary re-introduction of the Flash!

    [image=http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/f/fc/Showcase_4.jpg]
    Barry Allen! He was hip, he was cool, he didn't wear a helmet like Jay Garrick! But how to explain this entirely new character having an entirely separate origin? Simple: Barry Allen took the name Flash from an old Flash comic book. This was probably intended as a mythology gag, but unfortunately somebody, I dunno if it was an editor or what, decided that this was best explained as the old DCU being a separate universe from the 1960s
     
  14. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Yeah, my recollection of these (haven't actually read either one in about 7 years) is about the same as what you posted. The first one is great; the second and third...meh. Just no real reason.

    Although I think the height of silly crossovers was Superman vs. Aliens. Aliens vs. Predator vs. The Terminator actually wraps up some probably never-going-to-be finished movie continuity (namely, what happens after Alien 4) and happily restores the Alien series to the Terminator universe (it was very nearly there to begin with; in the 4th draft of the script for Aliens, Bishop is a Cyberdyne Systems android).
     
  15. Forcefire

    Forcefire Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 17, 2000
    Huntress can be a pretty good character done right; it's just really easy to fall into a "so edgy" portrayal. Helena Bertinelli was the daughter of a mob boss whose family was murdered by a rival mobster while she was a child (or a young adult, depending on the story). Her reaction to this is to reject the Mafia entirely and work to bring it down. It's sort of an inversion of Batman's origin that still brings her to the same side as him, which I like. The teacher thing I'm not familiar with.
     
  16. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Up. I will post a new review here before the weekend is up. I hope. I intend.
     
  17. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    You had better.

     
  18. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    The Secret of the Jade Box ? Bill Finger, Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson, George Roussos

    <img src="http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/52-1.jpg">

    Detective Comics, #52 (June, 1941)

    *So, this story can be found in The Batman Chronicles, Vol. 4.

    *So, the big splash panel is of Batman swinging a Chinese guy around by his pigtail. It strikes me that this may be one of those that kind of makes us cringe again.

    *So, it starts with this dude named Potter buying a jade box from a curio shop owned by a fellow, name of Achmed. That night, at his home, Potter anxiously awaits the arrival of Bruce Wayne. While he waits, he toys with the jade box and uncovers a secret panel. He is transfixed by what he sees inside!

    *He is then transfixed by a knife in the hand of a nearby shadowy figure.

    *Anyway, Bruce arrives and discovers Potter?s body and the jade box. The police are summoned, but Bruce keeps to himself the little detail of the jade box and the secret panel in the bottom of it.

    *So, Batman tracks the box back to the curio shop and Achmed reveals that after he sold Potter the jade box, someone came in looking for it. Achmed told this second person Potter?s address.

    *Batman notes that some thugs are waiting for him outside the curio shop so he . . . walks out whistling nonchalantly.

    *Batman, dread creature of the stealthy night. Whistling nonchalantly.

    *He then trounces the Chinese thugs, singing I Only Have Eyes for You. That is, by the way, not a joke. I?m dead serious.

    *Dread creature of the stealthy night. Doing the Great American Songbook. Because everyone else has.

    *So, then someone starts setting up a massive protection racket in Chinatown. It all revolves around the artifact in the false bottom of the jade box. It is a ring passed down from Genghis Kahn that gives the bearer of the ring absolute authority and . . . I don?t know. Forget it.

    *So, the new mayor of Chinatown has gotten hold of this ring and is using it to sort of scare the people into complying with his protection racket.

    *There?s an interesting detail here as Batman specifically mentions the previous mayor of Chinatown, Wong, and the fact that this new mayor took over ?after Wong was killed by the hatchet men.?

    *Wong was introduced . . . way back in The Case of the Ruby Idol, which was only the eighth Batman story we looked at in this thread. He predated Robin as an ally of Batman. He only appeared in The Case of the Ruby Idol and one other story, The Horde of the Green Dragon, which was a post-Robin story. It was in Green Dragon that Wong was axed by the hatchet men.

    *He was killed in the May 1940 issue which means it had been a little over a year since he exited the series. So, I just found it very interesting to see him mentioned again. We are also told that Wong had the Genghis Kahn ring, but refused to use it because he was too honorable. So, kind of cool to see this extremely minor character be mentioned again and even get a little retroactive character development. I?m finding that, on the whole, there?s more continuity in these early stories than I?d expected.

    *So, anyway, Batman and Robin confront the villains in their lair. This leads to some fairly typical action stuff: Batman punches a mastiff in the head and knocks it out; Robin wears a dragon costume; Batman strangles a guy with his own pigtail. You know, your basic brawl.

    *So, anyway, Batman regains and destroys the Kahn ring; peace is restored to Chinatown.

    *Luckily, we are spared a panel in which a little Chinese girl prays for Batman on behalf of her people. You laugh, but that actually happened last time.

    *Next time, we?ll get another Detective Comic issue under our belt as Batman gets involved with the mysterious Viola Vane! Believe it or not . . . this one is right up there with Money Can?t Buy Happiness and Book of Enchantment as one of the absolute dumbest stories I?ve yet read on this journey.
     
  19. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Great stuff as always, Rogue. Though, ironically despite these outrageously stereotypical stories about Chinese Americans, Batman is probably one of the least racist old-school comics, probably because he never went to go fight in World War II. Mind you, that's not taking into consideration the god-awful serial that I sincerely hope you're planning on talking about.


    Also, because I think this is the best place to mention it, Jerry Robinson passed away two days ago. You'll know Mr. Robinson's name if you've been reading the little attribution blurbs Rogue puts on every story title, and suffice it to say he had a huge hand in codifying the Golden Age Batman into something more closely resembling the character we know and love today. He was also far more influential with regards to the classic Golden Age Batman art style than Bob Kane ever was, created the Joker, and was a pioneer for proper creator attribution (Which is one of the main reasons we know about the guys who ghost drew for Kane back in the 1940s, and also the fact that we are reminded that Superman was created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster in every issue). This one gets to me a little more than most because Mr. Robinson was the only Golden Age talent I ever had a chance to talk to, and while I won't dare go so far as to claim to have known him, he was an extremely affable man and, perhaps most tellingly in an era where Neal Adams can charge $100 for a signature and get away with it, he would autograph something for you for no money at all.
     
  20. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Migod, how could I not review that serial? It's so terrible it's begging for it! I'm going to have a blast with that thing. And, yeah, when I talk about the series being so racist, I'm not really bashing the creators; what's shocking about the racism, when it crops up, is how utterly casual it was. I mean, it really was a different society, so it's hard to hold the creators to modern standards. At the time, it wasn't seen as racist at all.

    Ah, and good timing, I guess, on my decision to up the thread. Sorry to hear about Mr. Robinson; I had never heard the name before I started this thread, but he comes into Batman's world almost immediately and is present on practically every story once he comes in. He quickly becomes a name on every story. From now on, I'll definitely always associate Robinson and Roussos with Batman just as much as I once did (and still do) Kane. That he sounds like a good person is a definite plus. Excellent that we can remember him in this thread.
     
  21. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Viola Vane ? Bill Finger, Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson, George Roussos

    Detective Comics, #53 (July, 1941)

    <img src="http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/53-1.jpg">

    *In which Batman and Robin, having a slow day, decide to make the life of an innocent window washer a living hell.

    *Okay, so, folks, this is just a weird one. Let?s get right to it with the opening narration.

    * ?Glittering, irresistible ? that vast magnet which is Gotham City draws to itself an army of millions yearly from every town and village in America. There is no withstanding its lure . . . for here is a city where you may touch the clouds atop some towering skyscraper . . . or go deep down in the earth to ride aboard its roaring subway trains! To Gotham City they come . . . to carve their names in foot-high letters on the famous sidewalk. Some succeed . . . some fail! Some leave . . . some stay! Some curse the city, others love it! But every one of them has something to say about Gotham City . . . for no one may ignore this gigantic human ant heap! This story is what we have to say about the city!?

    *You will be asked to ignore the fact that this has **** all to do with Batman.

    *Some leave . . . some stay! Some succeed . . . some fail! I don?t care . . . neither will you!

    *Or as Frasier Crane once said, there may be a million stories in the naked city, but the only ones we care about are the naked ones.

    *So, the story opens with Bruce chatting with his friend Jim Daly. Jim is giving Gotham City down the road; he calls it heartless and cold. ?I think you?re wrong about that, Jim . . . but I guess the city itself will prove it to you some day.?

    *The next night, Jim Daly was gunned down in a random mugging. The end.

    *Seriously, I can?t tell you how hilarious it is that Batman is trying to romanticize the city. I mean, setting aside the greater question of urban morality, I think we can all agree that Gotham City is about the worst place to live outside of the West Bank. I find it patently absurd that Batman, of all people, is saying Gotham City isn?t cold and heartless. Well, if it?s such a great place, why do you have to dress up like a bat every night and beat people into submission to keep mass murder from breaking out?

    *So, anyway, Batman is patrolling the harbor that night when he sees a young woman fling herself into the river. He pulls her out and I?ll let her tell the story.

    * ?I?m an actress. I thought I?d come here and set the town afire with my acting. I didn?t make enough fire to light a candle. All I am now is an understudy to a star! My mother and dad don?t know that. I ? I kept sending them letters saying I was a great stage star and they believed me!? ?That?s no reason to commit suicide.?

    *Thank you, World?s Greatest Detective.

    * ?I received a telegram this morning. Mother and dad are already on their way here . . . going to pay me a visit for a few days.? ?Oh ? and you?re ashamed to face them because they?re sure to find out the truth. Hmm, you?re on a spot!?

    *That?s right, Viola Vane is trying to commit suicide because she?s apparently trapped in an episode of Laverne & Shirley.

    *Batman sends her on her way with the promise that he?ll help her. ?This is my chance to help that poor kid and also prove to Jim Daly that the city does have a heart!?

    *Excuse me . . . but I . . . just . . . wanted to remind . . . you . . . uh, ahem . . . well, you see . . . YOU?RE ******* BATMAN!

    *This is even worse than Money Can?t Buy Happiness.

    *So, Batman goes to the nightclub where Viola Vane works and tells the owner and everyone there about Viola Vane and how he wants to help her.

    *There is a nice bit where Batman says he needs someone to serve as Viola?s escort while her parents are in town. He says, basically, that he needs some handsome, rich idiot who?ll go along with the plan. The nightclub owner suggests Bruce Wayne, which is a good gag.

    *So, then Batman goes around to the radio stations, the newspapers, etc and tells them his plan but they are not to prin
     
  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    [face_laugh]

    Kinda reminds me of a story my Grandma (she's currently 95) told me a couple years ago- I forget her exact point, but the general idea was in a "They sure showed them, didn't they? They stood up for themselves!" type of tone/moral.

    She recalled that, when she was living in Newark as a kid, some cousin (or something- I'm more of a "faces" type of guy versus names/titles when it comes to family tree/family gatherings stuff) of hers worked for "a Jewish peddler" for a short period of time (a day or a week, I forget) and that afterwards, the "peddler" refused to pay him. So the cousin and another relative went back to the guy's shop the next day and trashed the place.

    She closed the story with a "Wasn't that great?" type sentiment. To which I then had to take a moment to collect my thoughts before replying with something to the effect of "...No. No it wasn't, Grandma. It was pretty stupid of them, actually. Even with legalities/destruction of property aside, while the guy was wrong to not pay him, if his beef was with the guy not paying him, they just made it even more difficult to get him to pay up- both motivationally and financially."

    And then she began to argue that her interpretation of the story was correct, not realizing the actual story undercut her position most definitively.

    I suspect the guys writing this Batman issue were likely of a similar mindset/outlook, even if they were doing so a few decades after her ;).
     
  23. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Hook Morgan & His Harbor Pirates ? Bill Finger, Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson, George Roussos

    <img src="http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/54-1.jpg">

    Detective Comics, #54 (August, 1941)

    *This story can be found in The Batman Chronicles, Vol. 4.

    *Before we get started . . .

    <img src="http://cache.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/33-1.jpg">

    *Remember, kids, for a better today and a better tomorrow, recycle.

    *I don?t know, has Batman gotten worse over the years? It seems like leaping feet first into a speeding car would work a lot better than leaping head first.

    *As we?ll learn by perusing a Batman cover gallery, however, the Dark Knight?s preferred method for dealing with malfeasance is to leap head first at it.

    *On to the story at hand.

    *So, anyway, this band of pirates steals an incoming shipment of something or other and kills a sailor and maybe a couple of harbor patrol people too.

    *These guys are sort of actual modern pirates, with speedboats and machine guns, not the kind of swashbuckling, sword swinging pirates we saw in Blackbeard?s Crew & the Yacht Society.

    *Meanwhile, Bruce and Dick share some dialogue that seems perfectly calculated to set your teeth on edge: ?This harbor pirate stuff is getting to be serious business. Hey ? cut it out! You weren?t even listening!? ?Right ? my tousle-headed friend! Today I listen only to the lovely voice of beautiful Linda Page! See you in the funny papers, kid!?

    *Tousle . . . headed . . . frie . . . OKAY JUST CUT THAT OUT FOR GOD?S SAKE

    *See you in the funny papers, Batman says. Is that metafiction?

    *Tousle . . . headed . . . NAH

    *So, Bruce and Linda Page go out shopping, but the expensive cloth Linda was going to buy was stolen by the harbor pirates.

    *Linda Page, I should mention, is for once in her frigging life not wearing her nurse uniform. Thank you, God.

    *So, Batman goes out that night and we get a great hero shot of him, cape across face, slinking through the streets.

    *He finds a store with the stolen cloth in it and browbeats the meek owner into telling him where he bought it.

    *We are then introduced to the hulking Hook Morgan, who has a hook on his right arm that would put Candyman to shame.

    *Morgan?s boys capture Batman and throw him in a freezer. He gets out by breaking the light bulb to cut his bonds and then using acid from his utility belt to eat through the door.

    *Batman finds out that Morgan and his crew have gone to attack The Dolphin, an incoming liner.

    *Batman extracts a small radio from his boot and uses it to get in contact with Robin.

    *I must say, this is a lot better than when their microphones were sticking up straight out of their belt buckles. Much better.

    *There?s an interesting moment here where the real world intrudes very briefly as Hook Morgan and his gang set themselves out in a lifeboat. They trick the liner into picking them up by saying that the freighter they were on has been torpedoed.

    *Anyway, Batman and Robin take out the pirates and then pursue Hook Morgan in the Batplane.

    *I should mention that the Batplane lands on the water and turns into a speedboat at one point. I don?t think it?s done that before.

    *Batman follows Hook Morgan and they engage in mortal combat.

    *There?s a surprising moment here when Morgan slices Batman across the chest with his hook, complete with a shocking shot of the bloody wound. I was kind of surprised at how violent it was actually.

    *Robin lounges about the background and justifies his cowardice: ?I?d like to help the Batman ? but he?d get sore! This is his fight!?

    *Right. Sure. You know what else might make Batman sore? A HOOK TO THE FACE.

    *Batman ultimately succeeds, however, and the reign of Hook Morgan?s pirates is over.

    *Next time, it?s back to Batman?s self-titled series. It?s the sixth issue and this issue features a couple of really good stories and the first appearance of a cult icon. But next time, it?s the first story in that issue. Join me next time for Murder on Parole!
     
  24. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Wow. That Viola Vane thing is just wow. I actually like the film noirish setup, with voiceover about this big golden city and then this woman who's just failing miserably, living the dark side of this dream -- that's great stuff. And then the comic just completely flushes it down the toilet. Batman, the expert on the dark side of Gotham, becomes Mr. Rose-Colored Glasses . . . and he spends his time running around the city forcing people to live out this giant lie he's engineered to keep some random girl from being embarrassed by the fact that she's been lying to her parents? What an idiotic conception of heroism.
     
  25. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    I think that was the thing that was most frustrating to me about the entire story: Bruce/Batman suddenly becoming this huge partisan for Gotham City as some kind of urban paradise where everyone really cares about their fellow man. I mean, he is the last person who would have such an opinion. It's just so utterly out of character. One day the city will prove it has a heart. Yeah, right. Also, he tells Jim Daly that Gotham will prove itself; and then he runs around forcing Gotham to prove itself. Does this not destroy the entire point? No one would have helped Viola Vane if Batman hadn't more or less strongarmed them all into it. Right, big heart. Lotsa love.

    I dunno; I honestly think it's now my least favorite story so far. Even worse than Book of Enchantment or The Land Behind the Light. I mean, at least those were honest about being fantasies. This one is an idiotic fantasy that pretends to be about the real Gotham City. I can't wait for the sequel, in which Viola Vane, now a star thanks to Batman, commits suicide after a coke fueled night of forced sex with a movie director.