Amph Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice

There are way too many "That was really well done" moments and bits here and there to entirely hate BvS, I agree. I don't think it deserves the toxic rep it's getting in some circles. I found it incredibly difficult to sit through this movie and hate everything about it because there's generally something nifty happening about every five minutes.

Parademons! Goddamnit! Parademons!

 

It wasn't that bad, but could have been way better. Many mistakes were totally predictable.

 

I wouldn't say the flick's flaws are minor, when you have an entire sequence devoted to a character sitting down and watching teasers for upcoming movies something has gone terribly, terribly wrong. But I can't hate this movie because I get way too much enjoyment outta stuff like Superman kicking Batman's car.

 

There were moments I like, but too many moments I hated. The biggest one was the "Martha" resolution to the Batman vs. Superman fight.

 

The idea of BVS after just 1 movie was very bad from the beginning. They were just trying to insert tons of stuff(some just doesn't fit well like the Death of Superman, EVERYONE knew he would come back) into this movie to attract eyeballs. I also don't get it why they are so obsessed with TDKR and wanted to make a movie based on it, it was good but it was a non-canon Batman story. Nearly none of the Superman fans like the treatment of Superman in TDKR. Due to this decision, we also had a 2 years blank of DC superhero movies, where Marvel had given us awesome movies like CA2.

They could just make a good MoS2, take away the silly ideas of the first one and continue the good ideas. Let Wonder Woman play a supporting role like she did in BVS, the box office wouldn't have been much lower and the reception could have been much better, and we could have seen it in 2015.

 

So every audience or critic should shut up and not give out their opinion/advice, because they can't make better movie themselves?

I don't blame Snyder or Goyer(that scene was stupid though) mostly, I blame WB, they made countless mistakes on the DC movie franchise.

 

Spoiler

I mean, is it really a recent development?

 

I thought it was interesting that Diana reads her emails as if they were instant text messages coming in (ala, scroll down to one line at a time).

It's kind of funny that Lex Luthor kind of indirectly formed the Justice League and gave them their logos.

Please do not post bootleg material, in any form.

 

The Amazons don't have televisions, radios, phones and computers on Themyscira. Thus they don't know. Diana probably did see it, but since she cannot fly under her own power, she can't exactly do anything in the time it takes to help. And before you say it, she probably doesn't have the Invisible Jet.

Superman could kill Batman, but he didn't want to. He needed his help to rescue Martha. Are you really paying attention?

Of course we know he's going to come back. Just as we did in the comics The point is that it takes their biggest gun out of the picture for a bit, leaving us with a justification for creating the Justice League. In this case, the threat of Darkseid means that Batman has decided that they need someone to pick up the slack. A whole team of Metahumans and one general to lead them.

It was used because it was one of the most popular Batman stories of all time and perfectly encapsulated the whole notion of Batman opposing Superman. The reasons are different between the two mediums, but it gets the point across. And since in this film, Superman isn't a government stooge, Superman's role is treated a bit better.

The movie took so long to make because A), Ben Affleck injured himself which meant time was needed to let him heal and B) to re-write the film to try and punch it up. MOS 2 would also take time to be made.

It would still have problems given that Snyder is involved.

 

oh we're doing this back and forth again?

 

I think I would be more accepting if Snyder's work if he was more humble about his abilities.

Most of his good films have been adaptions, not just of novels, but of graphic novels. So basically he has an already finished story with storyboards. And if he was a great director of actors or he gave his own interpretation of the material, that may be acceptable, but he isn't and doesn't. He is also completely unable to integrate themes subtly of the story. Every theme and subtle juxtaposition is told overtly to the audience. Any director can establish the themes - the trick is laying theme into the story so the audience figures it out either intellectually or viscerally. He is so unconfident of his abilities he spoonfeeds his audience and treats people like idiots.

I honestly don't know how he isn't treated like Michael Bay. He doesn't have any real substance - any director can put a coherent story to the screen, but it takes a talent to tell you a story and convey stuff that isn't shown or said. And again if he knew this about himself, then I would accept these movies for what they are, however he insists that these films are superior to anything Marvel does. That is plainly ridiculous.

 

Well, I've posted a few times how I think Snyder's sensibilities are like Michael Bay. At this point, I might prefer a Michael Bay Justice League film over a Zach Snyder one because it's sure to be more colorful, light hearted and have a fun factor. I also think that Bay is a better at putting action sequences together.

 

^ Sounds the end results equals the same difference. Both fail at characterization. However, I do believe that Bay does get Optimus Prime right, at least moreso than Snyder gets Superman.

 

Bay is also racist/misogynistic hence why Tranformers: Revenge of the Klansmen was released.

 

I agree with you with the most part, but Bay built up some good will with fans with doing justice with Optimus in the first film and it was very dour. Bay's inconsistency with Prime at least give the audience some positive things about the character that keeps Prime on the road, while Snyder's wrong characterization drives the character off the cliff.

Yeah, Peter Cullen is amazing at Optimus Prime. Even though Transformers 4 was panned by critics and fans alike, a good number of them will be back for Transformers 5.

 

Speaking of Lex, I'm thinking Lex actually represents Snyder in the film based on Snyder's comments on Man of Steel and whatnot. Snyder and Lex view Superman as a God and want to make him fallible in the worse way. They want to put Superman in these "unwinnable" situations, beat him down and question himself. Also, Lex (much like Snyder), felt like he needed to involve himself in getting Batman and Superman to fight, rather than just having their ideologies and principles be the focal reason the two battle like the source material.

Right now, I can't get behind Snyder's Batman because of the "Martha" resolution. I don't think any iteration of Batman could be stopped in his tracks with such a thing. I mean, I was on aboard with Batman being off hinged and paranoid about Superman being a threat to mankind but that all that changes at a snap of a finger.

I can't say anything bad about Wonder Woman, other than her motivations (entire reason for being in the film) were unclear. I don't know if Lex was blackmailing her or something. If Lex was doing that, I found it kind of odd that Diana would just leave on a Turkish jet plane without resolving her problem. It was like, well, Lex's data is encrypted so I give up. Bye, I'm out.

 

It was more that Diana was going to leave not because Lex had the data, but that Bruce had seen it and questioned her about it. How she knew that he had it, remains up in the air and might be in the R rated cut. As to Superman being treated like a god, remember that people have done that in the comics and there have been stories where he's questioned himself and what he does. That's why I'm more forgiving of these things than most.

 

I see where you're coming from and there are quite a few people that feel the same way, which is why they don't mind it, as Batman just makes the same connection. I might have felt a little more that way if Batman didn't make that comment to Superman moments before about "What did your parents teach you?" meaning, that Batman knows Superman has a mom and dad.

I would have preferred the widely speculated resolution to the fight (before the movie was released), where either Doomsday or Wonder Woman stops the fight between Batman and Superman, where they both come to the realization they are not enemies despite their different ideologies.

I'll be sure to watch the Ultimate Cut of Batman v. Superman, but as you pointed out, for now it's up in the air as to why Diana was back in man's world. I'd be okay with Superman being depicted as God if Zack Snyder didn't make it such a horrible thing. I mean, pretty much throughout the film, it made it pretty sucky to be Superman. I don't recall a moment in Batman v. Superman where Clark had any joy or fun in being Superman.