Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Jordan1Kenobi, Aug 27, 2013.
Yoda with ease.
Yoda takes this with relative ease. It's a repeat of the hangar duel with Dooku, where Malak keeps throwing Force attacks at Yoda, who keeps shrugging them off. Eventually Malak get's worried and pulls his lightsaber, and Yoda unleashes a whirlwind of destruction that makes Malak's jaw drop....oh wait.
I agree that Yoda is much wiser, that he is very powerful, but we're also talking about the dude who couldn't take Dooku. Malak was hugely powerful, a survivor of the wars with the mandalorians, and powerful enough to harness and utilize the Star Forge. I will actually vote against one of my favorite characters here, and throw my vote to Malak.
If memory serves, Dooku ran didn't he? Pretty sure he could've taken him down had he not fled
Dooku 'running' is something that tends to annoy me. People forget his whole goal was to leave in the first place. After beating Anakin and Obi-Wan he WAS leaving, till Yoda showed up.
But that's a story for a different fight
Doesn't change the fact he wasn't able to damage Yoda a bit, despite his claims to having become more powerful than Yoda. Yoda takes both Malak and Dooku.
I'll have to vote Malak here. Yoda was unable to defeat either of the Sith he actually fought, so based on Yoda's track record against the Sith, I believe that Malak might actually manage to defeat him.
Yoda, no doubt. "The most devastating foe the darkness had ever seen" (ROTS novelization) won't go down against Malak. Sidious is far superior to Malak, and ROTS Yoda = ROTS Sidious. Lucas himself said you have to be Yoda or Mace to compete with Sidious, who in turn was arguably the most powerful Sith Lord even by ROTS. Yoda's track record is irrelevant, besides the fact that in 'Yoda: Dark Rendezvous' he handily defeats Dooku.
The reverse is true as well.
Based on their styles, and the way the battle went (With only one of them throwing Force attacks around) who was more likely trying harder to kill the other? Even, if you watch the duel Dooku's the one on the offensive and then Yoda begins to drive him back, which is when he attempts to take out Obi-Wan and Anakin to distract Yoda. LOL I mean Dooku himself has proven to be inferior to both Yoda and Sidious time and again.
Okay, first you're judging how the battle went on perceived intent, which is subjective. Secondly, you point out that Dooku is inferior. Well, obviously. Which is why it's even more laughable to use this battle as an argument FOR yoda. How can you use this as evidence for yoda when he's fighting someone who's not even in his weight class (in more ways than one ), and still can't make a clean win of it? Don't get me wrong, this entire contest is subjective, but let's be honest, the dooku fight was not exactly Yoda's most shining moment.
Subjective yes, but really not to a ridiculous degree. We know Yoda. We know Dooku. One's a Jedi, the other's a Sith. Doesn't take much to figure out which one was going for the kill, especially if you just watch the fight to see how one's attacking and the other defends until the end, when the person who was formerly attacking is then driven back and runs away. I think that defending yourself without a problem against someone who's trying their best to kill you is an excellent feat, and that by all accounts Dooku threatening Anakin and Obi-Wan is the only thing that kept him from dying or being maimed/captured once Yoda started pushing back. I'd say the Dooku fight showed just how far above Dooku and most people Yoda is, when he can fight evenly against one of the greatest duelists in Jedi History without going for the kill.
In general, not being able to "take" Count Dooku isn't a lack of skill, but saying it when Yoda wasn't trying to kill him from the start in the same way makes no sense. If he attempted to kill Dooku, attacked him relentlessly as soon as he stepped into the hanger, was flinging objects at him with the Force, and Dooku defended against all of that without an issue (Which is what Yoda did to Dooku by the way) it'd then be a good showing for the Count and call Yoda's mastery into question. What's more, Yoda has better feats, yet we're trying to focus on the fact he didn't "take" Dooku?
...Besides, Yoda defeats Dooku in 'Yoda: Dark Rendezvous' in a dark side nexus. So yeah.
Okay, somehow I must have been unclear, because my argument has been misconstrued somewhere. I am not arguing that Dooku was in any way better, or even remotely capable of beating Yoda. Dooku is a child compared to Yoda in age, skill, wisdom, and power. The battle is like me, a 22 year old, fighting a ten year old. Completely different class of force user. However, Yoda's specialization is not in combat. This can be seen by his grunts and groans, his strained expression, and the way he cringes under the force of some of Dooku's blows. This is obviously not because Dooku is better than Yoda. I have never tried to make that argument. In fact, had that battle gone longer, I am sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that Yoda could have and would have disarmed Dooku (not literally as in anakin's case) and brought him into custody. [per Valerian's reference to Dark Rendezvous (One of my favorite books by the way, so that tells you how much I love the character)]
Now, for my actual argument. That it is feasible for Malak, who is in (roughly) the same weight class as Yoda, could feasibly be a viable contender for Yoda, and that it is not a total wash. Again, to the illustration. If you had a 22yo fight a 10yo, and that battle was not clearly decided, even if it was clear that the 22yo would eventually win, then later, if confronted by a 20yo, or even a 19 or 18yo were to challenge him, I would have second thoughts about the 22yo's ability to contend. This is the scenario that I was presenting. I'm not arguing that Yoda is any way less than others, but that in pitched conflict, we've seen him at less than his power level would indicate. And having someone at, or very near his power level gives reason to pause and consider. I decided to go with Malak on this vote, because I personally think that there is a chance, and a decent one at that, that he could win. But in everything else I completely agree with you. Yoda is a beast. One of the single most powerful beings in the force for centuries, and unmatched by most Jedi before and after. I still throw my vote this round to Malak.
I also want to apologize. I feel like this argument got a bit more heated than it had any right to. More than likely that is entirely my fault. I want you to know that it wasn't my intent to belittle or insult anyone.
And I didn't realize I would start an argument of this magnitude...
Anyway, all I was trying to say, was that (regardless of the eventual outcome) Dooku wasn't fleeing because he was losing, he was leaving since his goal was to leave Genosis anyway. I'm not saying he would have won, just that using that battle is a bit slanted, since his goal was to escape anyway.
You didn't. The problem with online discussion is one ill-phrased comment can be taken as an insult or as condescending and it degenerates from there. My fault. I need to stop reading so much into things, and be more careful about how I address people I disagree with.
I didn't think any of this as condescending haha, to me I just imagined a room full of Einsteins (who are SW fans) having an intellectual discussion
The winner is Yoda!
Moving on to round 2
1. Ulic Qel-Droma
2. Saesee Tiin
3. Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
4. Pong Krell
5. Meetra Surik
6. Obi-Wan Kenobi
8. Leia Organa Solo
9. Rahm Kota
1. Nahdar Vebb
3. Naga Sadow
4. Adi Gallia
5. Barriss Offee
6. Aurra Sing
7. Stass Allie
8. Oppo Rancisis
9. Darth Talon
10. Darth Malak
Our next competitors are...
Round 1 - Battle 11
Zett Jukassa vs. Anakin Solo
Anakin Solo, he came from a family full of powerful Jedi and was trained by Luke Skywalker, so I'd expect him to be really good, whereas Zett Jukassa is just a Padawan and wouldn't be able to last very long in this battle.
Anakin Solo, where the padawan has only the force, the kid also has good tech on his side