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Lit Battlefront II: Campaign Content (spoiler tags required for DLC story)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Taalcon, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013

    I think it's interesting that she and Paul Blackthorne (who's also doing a voice in BF2) also worked together as cops in Arrow, I believe.
     
  2. Contessa

    Contessa Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Yeah, McKenna Hall and Capt. Lance. It's a cool little reunion. Nice that they're using Blackthorne's natural accent for the game too.
     
  3. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    They didn't blow up Coruscant. ;)

    In any event it's unlikely -- especially since they're not legitimate successors. But we'll see what we end up learning.

    I didn't say it would happen after all. Just that it was the only thing that could possibly pull it off.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
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  4. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    The New Republic was sponsoring terrorism. They struck first so the FO was justified going total war. Destroying Hosnian Prime was necessary to save First Order trooper lives.
     
  5. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    C19, if I ever end up switching sides, I'll show you how a propagandist does his work. :p


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  6. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Hey I just tell it like it is. The New Republic thought they could fight a proxy war and undermine the FO but there's only so much good men can take. :)
     
  7. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    The fact that the FO had been secretly building a planet killer entirely justifies Organa's allegations that they were a threat. The arms build up belies any innocence on the FO's part, and we already know the FO was just waiting for a time to strike. The Resistance was just a flimsy rationalization for something they were had in motion for years, and any claims that it was a defensive action are irrelevant because it's grossly disproportionate in any event. Confusing the jus ad bellum and the jus in bello is precisely the sort of juvenile mistake I would expect from Hux, whose only experience with war was in simulator games and whose actual record is one of unmitigated failure.


    :emperor:


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  8. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    That's a very Rebel way of putting thing, Grand Admiral Jello. From the perspective of the First Order citizens, they are under attack by a paramilitary organization determined to see them
    destroyed and also trying to incite the New Republic to war against them.

    The First Order is, at least now, a separatist movement from the New Republic that is underneath repressive treaties designed to keep them under attack as well as the Princess' Resistance. The idea they're a "minor" threat doesn't track with the fact Leia, Ackbar, and potentially LUKE SKYWALKER brought down the Empire.

    We don't know when Starkiller Base began construction but it's entirely possible that it was during the Galactic Empire that construction began since the massive craters there were created during Ahsoka Tano's lifespan due to Ilum being its likely location. It's very possible the First Order simply took over an existing facility and completed construction over it in order to have a "planet killer deterrent" against the New Republic.

    The New Republic isn't some sort of "innocent victim" here because it has the most powerful fleet in the galaxy and a far vaster military-industrial complex. At least to the point that the majority of individuals dismiss the First Order as a has-been remnant. The Resistance claims the First Order is, correctly, stronger than it appears but not so much that the New Republic at its height might not be able to destroy it.

    Destroying the New Republic's capital and their fleets in a preemptive strike is something that weakens the New Republic drastically and had a large amount of collateral damage, it's true, but if you're going to engage a GALACTIC GOVERNMENT then I'm not sure what an appropriate first strike is supposed to be in your opinion. If you want a "Short but Victorious War"* then you have to throw everything at the enemy.

    Certainly, the fact Chancellor Villechem was taking Princess Leia's aide in private meetings for support shows the idea they were treaing the Resistance as the insurgents they were is ridiculous.
    You also are confusing the source of the orders. Hux may have suggested a first strike with Starkiller base but it is also at the order of Supreme Leader Snoke's behest. Hux is no Tarkin, overreaching his authority and attacking a non-military target in the core but an enemy capital with a history of belligerence.

    Will Inferno Squadron view this as revenge against the Republic for driving them into exile? Separating them from their families? Treating them as war criminals? I don't know but I suspect our heroine will view Starkiller Base not as a gross atrocity but simply, "The Empire always strikes back."
     
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  9. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Bah, it is weird to see people dedicating so much effort to debating whether the Empire or the FO is better...it is like arguing whether cow droppings or dog droppings taste better.

    More important, I believe, is solving the mystery of how Rey traveled back in time to help the Republic defend Theed from the separatists. ;p

    Once again I can't help but imagine if they had...oh the rage of Jello then, assuming he didn't have a heart attack in the theater.....
     
  10. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013

    First of all, terrorism would be attacking a civilian target with the intention of causing fear. The NR never did that. Secondly, every attack we've seen thus far has been retaliatory, not preemptive. In Before the Awakening, Poe was on a recon mission when he was attacked by a First Order fleet. In Bloodline, First Order-aligned forces bombed Leia's apartment. Need I continue? If any group is sponsoring terrorism, it's the FO.
     
  11. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I remind you, Princess Leia and Poe KIDNAPPED a First Order sympathetic Senator because of his politics and interrogated him. A civilian target if there ever was one. :) As for the "who did what first", The Resistance is an organization designed to destroy a government which the people (Centists) chose for themselves. Are they bad guys? Well, YES, if you want to be BINARY about it but the Force is so much bigger than Light, Dark, and the Balance.

    :D
     
  12. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013

    Ah, but Leia and Poe's actions were undertaken by the Resistance, not the New Republic. ;)

    And while they did kidnap him, I can't find evidence they tortured him, let alone interrogated him–in fact, Senator Ro-Kiintor was only briefly kidnapped, and was then ejected from his ship in an escape pod. The only thing the Resistance escaped with was his ship. They got all the details they needed from its navicomputer. If they're guilty of any crime, it's the theft of one starship. And again, that would be a crime of the Resistance, not the New Republic. And if that's the only crime the Resistance has committed, I would hardly call them a terrorist group, either. The Rebellion did far worse, and are generally considered freedom fighters and heroes.

    And again, the Resistance is not the New Republic. And it was formed to stop the First Order, not the Centrists. Not all the Centrists were in the First Order camp (Ransolm Casterfo, for example). And those who were are acting illegally with a foreign government to harm their own government, thus making them traitors. So far, the Resistance has done nothing that damages any Centrist interests that are legal.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Just saying, all those starships are paid for by someone and General Hux KNOWS it's the LOATHESOME Republic.

    It acquiesces to disorder.

    :)
     
  14. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Uh-huh, says the raving madman raised from birth to be a fanatic.
     
  15. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I actually was brainwashed by my wife, a First Order scientist in love with Kylo Ren.

    :)
     
  16. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013

    I meant Hux, but–

    Oh, whatever. [face_laugh]
     
  17. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Just to point this out about the First Order's lack of justification in using SKB again, they've already broken numerous treaties and galactic laws about weapons and capital ships, and the simple fact that the FO's military is in fact die hard Imperial elements that never disarmed means that any negotiation or official statement made by the FO is being made in bad faith.

    Though a thought just occurred to me about Iden Versio; if she's a First Order member by TFA, she's older than almost any other FO personnel we've seen, and would probably be in top of the ranks thanks to sheer seniority. She's older than all three of the SKB Trimuvirrate, and would be the only confirmed Imperial veteran presumably still active in the FO's military that I know of.

    Maybe she's something like the Director of Spec Ops?
     
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  18. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Treaties made with guns to the head are no treaties at all. The First Order has an obligation to protect its citizens and the fact they were forced to abide by treaties designed to punish the Empire shows any violations of the treaty are justified.
     
  19. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    Um, aren't all cases of a government at war surrendering and giving in to demands done with a gun to their head (at least figuratively if not literally)?
     
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  20. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    You'd think that would undermine my point but, honestly, very rarely do they last when punitive and the other side gets the power to resist them.

    Treaties work best when one side WANTS to do them.
     
  21. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    A la the Bastion Accords.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Not a bad example.

    In the case of the First Order, yeah, they violate the Concordance all the time but get upset when the Republic does the same thing. Harley?

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    The 15 minutes or so where I thought they had were tremendously emotionally difficult for me. I breathed a sigh of relief when they mentioned "the weapon that destroyed the Hosnian system."

    Then Han stepped onto that catwalk.
     
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  24. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    It was tragic. I thought the galaxy had been freed from the evil of the Coruscanti but it was not to be. Then I found out it's possible Coruscant is the capital of the First Order and I realized the universe made sense again.
     
  25. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    We've talked about this before. Your impression of Coruscant as an "evil" planet seems entirely based on the idea that it's full of eeeeevil rich upper class people suppressing the poor who live in the under-city below, but the nightclub and diner in AOTC and celebrating crowd in the special edition of ROTJ prove that there are quite a few "middle class", descent people undeserving of being blown up who live on Corusant. Or to put it another way, Taris IS a city planet where the well off live on the upper levels and the damned live below, yet I don't think many people cheered when Malak blasted it into the stone age.