Discussion in 'Literature' started by Taalcon, Apr 12, 2017.
Occam's Razor: The ISB uses Naval Ranks?
Except it doesn't, going by "Colonel" Yularen.
Imperial ranks, man.
I have a couple of theories on Admiral Versio's rank. I imagine he owes his Admiralty to his role as the head of the Special Forces division, which is either a joint ISB/Imperial Navy command or commandeers enough of the latter's assets to earn him the rank by default. However, it's also possible that since the ISB seemingly has its agents imbedded in every branch of the Imperial Military, they have dedicated sub-branches which adopt the ranking structure of whichever armed service they're attached to. For example, you would have the ISB command at the top consisting of its Director and Deputy Directors, and beneath them you have a Naval Oversight branch headed by an ISB admiralty, an Army Oversight branch headed by ISB generals, etc. The ISB really seems to have its fingers in a lot of pies in the NeU, and has a much more expanded role than in Legends. Along with its obvious intelligence role in ferreting out Rebels and ensuring the loyalty of Imperial officers, the Rogue One Visual Guide also establishes it as being in charge of most of the Empire's military R&D and security for secret installations. So the confusing ranking system may be a consequence of it being such a sprawling agency with an inter-service jurisdiction.
But they plan to do that by doing the exact same type of scorched earth policy as Cinder.
The FO was almost certainly founded by people who followed Cinder than by those who rejected it.
A bunch of idealistic young American soldiers killing a bunch of American soldiers they perceive to be evil and then discovering they've made themselves evil in the process (if not worse) IS the plot of Spec Ops: The Line.
You're basically saying, "A bunch of evil Nazis kill a bunch of people, flee, and decide to come back to kill some more."
One plot I find more compelling than the other.
Guys, I'm freaking out. The last member of Inferno Squad in that picture? He's being voiced by T.J. Ramini. Now we already know the other two actors were in Arrow together as Detective Lance and Officer McKenna Hall. Turns out Ramini was in an episode of Arrow too, as Jason Brodeur, a white-collar criminal. So the three main members of Inferno Squad were all in Arrow. As an Arrow fan, I'm giddy.
that's pretty cool.
Yeah some good acting talent (and writing talent) going into the story, glade to see it.
It is still weird hearing Quentin Lance talk with a non American accent
Hmmmm - true, that is a pretty good point.
Though even a simple plot can be engaging with the right execution, particularly when it comes to characters. I mean, look at Star Wars itself. And many a good tragedy has been written about a character descending to lower and lower depths for various reasons.
(In particular, I could see the main character being uncomfortable with operation cinder - then the rebels kill her father, and her vengeance leads her to accept the mission)
Well the campaign for the previous Battlefront II had you gunning down Jedi in the temple and destroying their books, in TFU you play as a villain for the first half, KOTOR and its sequels let you choose all sorts of evil actions, not to mention all the strategy games that allow you to use the Death Star to blow up planets of your choice. So playing as an irredeemably evil person in Star Wars video games is nothing new, it's just that usually "the bad ending" is non canon.
On the issue of "What would Iden think of Operation Cinder", it seems like she's perfectly comfortable with the Death Star, Death Star II, and Starkiller Base. I can't imagine anyone who supports massacring civilians with deadly planet killing lasers would have any qualms about massacring civilians with deadly planet killing weather control machines. If it does cause some sort of epiphany that makes her lose faith in the Empire and join the future First Order, I can only imagine it's because she sees it as a waste of resources and a distraction to punish seemingly random planets when she wants to take the fight to the Rebels/NR.
Eh, I disagree but to each their own.
I'm going to agree with Charles here.
The Death Star achieved military goals; it destroyed a single rebellious world. Operation Cinder appears to be devastation on a Galactic scale for no end goal save to end resistance. It's amorphous; Iden may disapprove from a military perspective, and that reach her, but clearly not enough to cause her to defect.
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I think it's worth noting that we never actually got to see or receive any details on most of Operation: Cinder beyond the attempted scouring of Naboo. While we can extrapolate from that event to assume that the goal was to destroy all life at each target, we don't know that for sure. For instance, Burnin Konn was listed as a target of Operation: Cinder, but even though Governor Adelhard insists that the Emperor is alive and all claims to the contrary are just Rebel propaganda (much like Captain Duvat after meeting with the Emperor's Messenger), Uprising never shows any attempted scouring of the planet. Just standard military assaults. Also, Shattered Empire states that while some of the targets of Cinder made sense to the Alliance High Command, others didn't and were seemingly random. This statement could be interpreted as reinforcing the claim that Cinder was just random, indiscriminate slaughter as part of Palpatine's Contingency to bring down his failed Empire, but it could also mean that some of these planets have a secret meaning or function known only to him. Given that Naboo is his homeworld and presumably home to a residence of his, it's possible that the destruction of the planet was intended to completely erase some of his secrets stored away there in the event of his death before they can fall into other hands. Presumably not every target of Cinder had a personal connection to Palpatine, and thus was subjected to a different type of treatment.
I really should stress that I'm not trying to make Cinder into a less objectively evil operation, or rule out the possibility that it was a campaign of genocide against each target world. I'm simply pointing out that our knowledge of the campaign is limited, so it may be too early to read into Iden's views, feelings, or role in the matter. That said, I can't wait to find out. The suspense is killing me.
Also, it doesn't actually seem to be about ending resistance. We know Palpatine just wants the galaxy to burn as his funeral pyre.
Battlefront II might be used by the story group to further define not only what Cinder was, but also what connection, if any, it may have had to the Contingency. We've had pages of debate elsewhere on this forum about whether or not Rax's orders included something about founding a second Imperial successor state or not; it's possible they could make that explicit through Cinder operations. Some of the Cinder operations may have been deliberately calculated by Palpatine to damage the Imperial war effort *politically* but leave enough of the *material* aspect intact to stage a final confrontation at Jakku requiring the vast bulk of an opposition force, so that both militaries could be wiped out.
Or maybe Cinder included some elements that would lead to the FO's shape or weaponry; I mean, if SKB happened to be the rebuilt body of a certain planet already high in the required crystals that was located very close to where SKB emerged... It would make sense that Palpatine or one of his scientists would have come up with the idea, and maybe even intended that to become a mission for Imperial loyalists; dedicate their life to building a weapon so monstrous it eclipses the Death Star, and then use it on anyone who escaped his scorched Earth(s) policy.
Come to think of it, using Kylo's line in TFA that the FO has access to maps that the NR didn't, is it possible that one Cinder mission would be to destroy information like that, to further isolate planets and wreck up the Galactic infrastructure?
The idea some of you have that someone rejects Cinder so they'd join the FO is.... strange. You all do realize that the FO reveres Palpatine and all the most extreme aspects of the Old Empire, right?
I suspect Cinder will make Iden very uncomfortable but it'll be the start of her descent into something very dark.
Missa ab iPhona mea est.
I'll realize that the FO revere Palpatine they day they have statues of him. Or giant portraits. Or just mention him at all.
Phasma seems to
Missa ab iPhona mea est.
If I were a hardcore Imperial, I'd consider melting the Emperor's yacht to make an armor out of it sheer blasphemy.
IIRC it was described as salvage.
It's still presumptuous and sacrilegious to be sure, but so is the First Order.
Missa ab iPhona mea est.
It can be argued whether or not the FO idolizes Sheev, all we know for certain about their ideaology is that they see themselves as a new and improved version of the Empire, see the NR as illegitimate, and have no qualms about destroying planets.
Speaking of which, again I must point out that (at least going by the trailers) Iden seems to have no problem with any of the 3 planet killing superweapons she encounters first hand. If she's fine with Alderaans fate, chances are she won't get weapy over civilians killed on Naboo or Abenedo. At worst she'll think its wasteful of time and resources when what she really wants to do is give the Rebels some pay back.
It's just that i really wonder why no one in the First Order seems to have established a cult of personality devoted to Palpatine, you know, as it happened with Lenin after he died and even when Stalin was at his peak. I'd have expected to see a giant statue of the Emperor on Starkiller Base, or to hear Palpatine mentioned in Hux's speech before the Hosnian Cataclysm.
Sure. Presumably Snoke has taken up that position. I suppose we'll find out in a few months, between this game and Phasma.
EA just posted some short bios of each squad member, with a tiny bit of new info. Presumably we will learn a lot more in the novel.
Missa ab iPhona mea est.
It will depend largely on whether the First Order is a group which deifies the Empire or which considers it a failed experiment they're correcting.
I wouldn't be surprised if the First Order disdains Palpatine and reveres Darth Vader.
The FO, after all, is led by the Knights of Ren and Darth Vader's biggest fanboy. It also is led by a man who doesn't call himself Emperor and is the ACTUAL cult of personality leader for the FO.
It seems awkward when Darth Vader is Palpatine's assassin.
I have a suspicion actual reverence for either figure has been co-opted or supplanted by reference for Snoke. But it's hard to say -- both Phasma and Kylo are the only clear examples of either that we see.
Missa ab iPhona mea est.