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FF:QLD Battlestar Galactica discussion...

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Kahlan72, Feb 25, 2005.

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  1. GoobaFish Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 4
    Might be what I have too?
    Detailed descriptions?
  2. Murder_Sandwhich Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
  3. Magnus_Darcrider Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2005
    star 4
    My only vaguely coherent thought was this immediately afterwards:

    Tigh broke the Universe!

    Be seeing you,

    Magnus Darcrider
  4. Kahlan72 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2000
    star 4
    I'm surprised Goobs hasn't replied to this thread, as his views are stronger and differing to mine, but here we go..

    I really thought it was interesting and intense and confusing and WOH.

    Blacked out bits:

    I can see why some aren't going to like this episode..

    Can I say it? can I say it? Ellen's the 5th... I did suggest that. HOWEVER, I'm thinking we've a long way to go but my thoughts now are that they are the revered 5, but the rest of humanity are cylon too.

    The 13th Tribe was Cylon??? CRAP. When Tyrol was loking at the shadow, I'm thinking..aww he's imagining those poor people about to be nuked to death. NOT WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT! They lived there? MOLY!

    Goobs reaction to Dees death was intense, and I hated that she died, but understand why someone, if not half the fleet reacted like that. I didn't like that stuff between her and Lee before it and thought that came out of nowhere. Although the "love" storylines were sort of put on the backburner in the intensity of the rest of the season, for the better, it was good to feel a bit of that stuff.

    Poor Kara. But what DOES that make her?
    BBN, MD.. is this an alternate timeline issue?, or is she just cylon, or something else, that probably the whole of humanity has become..hmm.
    And was she really going to tell Lee about finding her bony self and doing the whole cool pyre thing?? I don't think so. But she'll say later..I was GOING to tell you.
    Awesome momeent though when Leoben said that she should stop looking..you just knew then hey?

    Saul and Tory and Anders and Tyrol all being in that place is just odd. They all lived close to each other?..and was that meant to be Anders guitar or just some general one?..cause if it was meant to be his..COME ON!!! bit silly. And rmemebering that it was your ashes burnt into the wall..that's gotta mess you up abit chief, perhaps more thatn Kara finding herself.

    Roslyns reaction was interesting, although HOW UNFAIR to just leave the people with no knowledge of what was down there!! RUDE. Guess it was her turn for a breakdown though, which dominoed to Bill, which I liked, although perhaps a little easily.

    I would have liked to hear Lee's speech, and not as a post thought ina silly drunken conversation that seemed a bit contrived as a plot point.

    I think that's all my thoughts the morning after.

    I did LOVE the episode. They covered what I wanted it them to, it started where I wanted..after the gatorsodes I was concerneed it would start back on their journey..and some huge relevations were made. Enough to keep me interested in the next bit! HUGE STUFF.

    I am getting the feeling I wish it would slow down a bit again, as there's only so few episodes left, and I could do with a few more years of this.


    Hope others enjoyed it..reacted to it..were impressed by it like I was.


  5. General Cargin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 1999
    star 4
    I've long had the feeling that Leoben knows more than he's telling - that much is obvious - but the flipside to that is that Kara is asking the wrong questions. She seems too focused on the what and how, when maybe the why and when might be critical.
  6. BigBossNass1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 5
    I'm still a bit of a way off forming coherant thoughts regarding the latest episode, but holy fraking frak. Yet again the show has jumped up to a whole new level. The bleak colour palatte, the mythic storyline coming even more fully into the forefront, the shocking and violent despair of the people in the fleet, and the revelations upon revelations. I was frozen to my seat as I watched, staring in a stunned silence that continued long after the final shot. My head's still spinning.

    Battlestar Galactica is one of the finest pieces of television I've ever had the joy of watching.

    Nine episodes left.
  7. CCD Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2002
    star 4
    x2

    Don't have much else to say that hasn't been said far more eloquently elsewhere, but I did like this quote from the TV without pity forum:

    And Dee... heartbreaking.
  8. BigBossNass1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 5
    This episode made me so nostalgic for the happy carefree days when all the characters had to deal with was the near extinction of the human race.

    Ha, QFT.


    Yeah, Dee.

    I've made no secret of my dislike of Dee from late season 2 onwards (as a person, I should point out, not as a character. I always admire when creators give their characters distinctly unlikable traits). I never entirely forgave her for what happened to Billy, and for her involvement in Lee's derailment (again, I love how his character has on occasion been made deliberately unlikable to the audience). But I must admit that I did always feel for her, and respect her as a solider and officer. I found myself liking her again in this episode. She seemed to drop those pretenses and manipulative actions she's shown in the past, and just become that character from season one that we all loved. She seemed, out of all the poeple on Galactica, to be the one best coping with the shattering of their collective dream.

    Except she wasn't.

    I don't think there can have been many people who watched this episode and didn't cry out in shock when she put that gun to her head. I sure did. And as the Old Man sat in the morgue yet again asking "why?" to someone he'd loved, I think I felt tears just slightly pricking my eyes.

    Anastasia Dualla, RIP.
  9. GoobaFish Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 4
    It's unfortunate that they've introduced this 'killing off' of side characters. I get why they bumped off Caly and Dee, they had some story relativity, but the "ohmygod!" aspect of it wasn't much for me. Now I am waiting for the next regular extra to be pipped. Which is sad. Yes, death is a part of life, and with the numbers of survivors tumbling due the war and such it's bound to be people we know eventually, but I am getting desensitised to it.

    Can someone take me through Tyrol's arc over this season? I am trying to find how Caly's offing and his crazyness was really needed when thinking of who his is now... was it meant to be a 'one god' thing with Baltar that never got resolved?

    The old man breaking was too easy imo. Yes, Roslyn had palmed him off, Saul was revealed, Earth was toast and Dee offed herself, but the "Defcon" Adama from Pegasus days just isn't around as much anymore. Call it character development, but I miss crusty old Adama.

    I did like most of this ep, though. Especially Chief and Starbuck.
    So, questions. Is Starbuck, Ellen or someone else the 5th cylon? Is 'humanity' the 5th cylon?
    Do Tyrol, Anders, Tori and Tigh reincarnate? Ressurect?
    Gah!
  10. NeecH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah... it's safe to say that Dee's not the final Cylon. [face_whistling]
  11. BigBossNass1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 5
    You guys aren't bothering so much with the spoiler tags, I see. :p


    I see your point, Goob, but I don't share it. The deaths don't feel oportunistic or cheap to me, they don't feel like they're being done for shock value. This is life in the fleet, especially as things keep getting worse for them, and as their dreams keep getting crushed or otherwise snatched away. I don't feel like it's just "final season body-count" stuff, even though obviously there is an aspect of that to it. You comments on both that and the Adama stuff strike me as you not wanting things to change, or for the characters to develop. And while I understand your feelings, I've got to disagree. We need the contrast. We need to see the Old Man at his lowest so we can appreciate him at his best. It's always disconcerting for us, not least because we aren't used to television operating this way. We're used to just seeing the same episodes playing out week after week in slightly different permutations. We're not used to seeing the characters we love fail, or get tired, or give up in such a final way. We're not used to seeing such drastic changes in circumstance. I'd be upset if they didn't show these character moments. It would make it too cheap, too meaningless. When Dee shot herself I wasn't shocked because of the bang or because of the blood, it was because she was a person I'd come to know. I didn't like her much, as I've said, but I knew her. I was invested in her, just like everyone else on that ship. And I felt the pain of what Earth turned out to be as well. The same with Adama. Seeing him so broken, falling so low, that just made him more real to me.

    And just as a side note, on the subject of becoming desensitised to character death, BSG actually hasn't killed off very many main characers at all, if you think about it. Other than Ellen and Cally, I'm struggling to think of any at all.

    So yeah, I get what you're saying, and indeed I understand missing how things were and not really wanting the show to change, but I've got to humbly disagree. It's this stuff that's always been the meat of the show for me, and it's why I'm so glad it's coming to an end on the terms of those who make it, because it lets them escalate things to a climax like this. I wouldn't have it any other way.


    As for Tyrol, his arc's a bit indistinct, as is Baltar's. Obviously that stuff's going to be dealt with in the episodes to come. Baltar's role in the whole myth is one of the biggest question marks the show needs to deal with.
  12. HappyBob Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 4
    To me, this was the perfect Battlestar episode. It had the three things I love the most about this show:

    1. The human race gets the ground cut from under its feet all over again. Just like old times, eh?

    2. A priority focus, above all else, on Character. This isn't Lost or 24, with twists for their own sake. Every single event here is a catalyst for personal change. These are people we have every reason to care about, written with skill and familiarity that can only come from five years of development. Everyone reacts differently and believably, and nobody will come out of this entirely the same. This is why Dee's death - or rather, a death - was very necessary. Suicide would be a harsh and frequent reality for the people of the fleet, and we can't expect everyone to say "ho hum" and move on to a Casino Planet.

    3. BATS--T INSANE TWISTS. About a season's worth in a single episode, and all relevant. We have nine episodes of mystery solving ahead. It's so satisfying to see all the pieces this close to fitting together. And while much of this was never planned out from the start, it's all very true to what went before.
  13. BigBossNass1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 5
    Just on the subject of twists and reveals, can I just say how great I think the decision to reveal the identity of the last Cylon in this episode was? If it had been held off on for the rest of the season, made to be the last big revelation, it wouldn't have worked. The hype and anticipation could never have been lived up to, and more to the point, it would by definition not have had any follow-up. This way we get nine whole fracking episodes to deal with Ellen's true nature and to discover what it all means. Brilliant, brilliant decision. It's not about what, or who. It's about how, and why.
  14. HappyBob Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 4
    I strongly suggest you all read this very thorough article full of interviews and notes from the writing staff. (Absolutely saturated with spoilers, obviously. I've even had to obscure the real URL.)

    They explain every creative decision in great detail, along with the complicated production history. This was shot during the strike, and for all they knew at the time, it could have been the final hour of BSG ever filmed. It really adds an extra layer of appreciation for everyone's performances this episode - they had an extra obligation to do these characters justice.

    RE: the ending. I knew it would be good when the torrent seeder had to explain it really does end there; it doesn't cut off. I love it when a show ends precisely one second before you expect it. Buffy made an art form out of it in seasons 4-5.
  15. Magnus_Darcrider Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2005
    star 4
    Further thoughts, though my initial one still stands.

    Adama had to break. You can only take so much. And as the Father of the Fleet, he felt he'd ultimately failed them.

    Dee's suicide was understandable. Personal bodycout aside, reports of suicide amongst the Fleet would have reached an all time high after this, but we need to be shown the personal cost. I didn't like Dee's character either, but I can't say I'm glad she's gone. A lot of the fans who love Billy, however...

    I'm still trying to resolve if the Cycle is Religion or Science. Did the Thirteenth Tribe create a cyclic reincarnation generator? Did the Cylons after the war find remnants of this technology, creating the Humanoid Models we've seen and the Resurrection Ships, based on this technology? Or is it a Monotheistic God?

    What if the Thirteenth Tribe created the Monotheistic God through their technology?

    I'm still calling the Final Five Prophets until I'm flatly told otherwise.


    Be seeing you,

    Magnus Darcrider

  16. BigBossNass1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 5
    To me, the Cycle is a religious one. It's the desire of some higher power(s), and the stuff of myth and prophecy. A technological explanation just wouldn't be in keeping with the tone of the series, nor, I think, with the general spirit it's been espousing. I've loved the religious and mythic angle ever since its introduction, from that moment Head-Six quoted Pithia to Baltar: "All of this has happened before, all of it will happen again." I find the notion that the original series takes place within this same universe, either thousands of years in the past or in the future to be just brilliant. And now we've seen in the sharpest relief ever the true scope of the Cycle. It's not a completely original idea, certainly not in Sci-fi. Babylon 5, for example, dealt with similar notions. But it's just so beautifully executed. We're starting to see even more parallels. The exile/departure of the Thirteenth Tribe takes on drastically diferent and uncomfortably familiar conotations now that we know they were Cylons. Their finding of their own world and evolution does the same. And the posibility that they may have perished in their own centurion vs humanoid civil war (not the only possible reading of the vague hints in the episode, but certainly a plausible one) would be yet another repeating piece of history (indeed, a repetition on multiple levels, which is starting to make my head spin). It's almost chilling to think about. The scope of it is bigger than I ever imagined. The last question we really have to answer is how the cycle ends and begins anew. We know most of the rest, at least roughly, but we're missing the last crucial pieces to truly understand.


    I would seriously love to hit the pub with some of you lot one night this week and just try to figure this the hell out. We'll be wrong, and we know it, because there's 9 episodes left to pull the rug out from under us, but I love the challenge of trying to divine the shape of all this from the pieces we currently have.
  17. Kahlan72 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2000
    star 4

    I would seriously love to hit the pub with some of you lot one night this week and just try to figure this the hell out. We'll be wrong, and we know it, because there's 9 episodes left to pull the rug out from under us, but I love the challenge of trying to divine the shape of all this from the pieces we currently have

    Totally there. Wednesday night?
    Or we can rewatch and drink at my place.

    I'm feeling like the cycle is going to be a technological one, explained and lived in a religious or spiritual way. The actualities of the world as it has been, and is, understtod in a series of spiritual beliefs, by humans, and by cylons.

    Very much have the PLanet of the Apes feeling going through my head which I just can't shake. Cylon/ Humans..chickens /eggs. I'm not even sure I want to understand it though! Loving the ride.

    I think Dees death was real and painful and perfectly in keeping with how this story is going. I never hated her, people aren't perfect, Kara, Lee, Dee, Tyrol..people aren't simple, and aren't out to hurt others..**** just happens when they let it. And in the situation they're in, the lines of reality, decency and morality must be SO blurry.

    I however did want Bill to hold it a bit more together this time. He's lost it a few times, and it really had made us love and get to know the character. I jsut hoped with everyone else falling apart around him, it would be time that he find his feet and stand and be there one there for Lee and Rosylyn like they were for him. He will though.

    I also really want to know what Baltar is thinking..bring back his 6 a while please! :)
  18. BigBossNass1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 5
    I never hated Dee. I just never quite forgave her for Billy.

    Adama did pick himself up. He needed his oldest friend to help him, but he didn't pack it in. He walked into that CIC, and he gave another one of his speeches to the fleet, and he started the search for a new planet. Love the Old Man. :) Love him all the more for his flaws and humanity.



    I'm feeling like the cycle is going to be a technological one, explained and lived in a religious or spiritual way. The actualities of the world as it has been, and is, understtod in a series of spiritual beliefs, by humans, and by cylons.

    The thing about that is that I really do think that the actuality of the world we've been presented with is one where a higher power is at work. Technology can explain a lot, and the Cylons have certain abilities that both lend an air of the miraculous (instant downloading and ribirth over astronomical distances), and of the spiritual (projection, and the basic mechanical ability for Cylons to have highly vivid visions pretty much on demand). But we know for a fact that there are crucial differences between Cylons and Humans. Humans can't download. We're composed of different matter, as Baltar's Cylon detector attests (remember, the detector DOES work. The people of the fleet think it doesn't, but we know better). So where do our visions come from, if not from someone upstairs? How does one of us come back from the dead without it being a bona-fide, capital-M Miracle? How do the ships in the Ionian Nebula all suffer power failures and restorations at the exact same time? Where does The Music come from? What is the mechanism of the destiny that drives certain people to fulfill roles set out in the scripture? There are technological answers to these questions, at a stretch, but I'm as certain as I'll ever be that we're being shown a world where the hand(s) of God(s) has set this wheel of time in motion, and picked out the players in the repeating story.

    It's kind of funny for me, the solid athiest to be writing this. :p But I suppose if I had this quantity of evidence of divinity in the real world, I might be a believer out here too. :p
  19. Kahlan72 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2000
    star 4
    Haha. I'd probably be able to find you a large handful of my religious friends happy to discuss some of these miracles and evidence in our world with you BBN.

    I see where you're coming from though, and yeah, there's a hugely spiritual side to this show. Goodness knows I'd also be happy with the storyline of higher powers and mystic forces if it gets explained to a decent level for my..I'm not an thiest...cynicism perhaps ;)

    ..why did "hokey weapons and all powerful force" just come into my head?

    POssibly it'll end up being one of those things the audience needs to decide for themselves at the end.

    ..and what an end it'll be :D

  20. Kahlan72 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2000
    star 4
    Sci fi channel are playing the episodes from next Saturday on the day they come out in the US. That's pretty cool. A first even! They're playing all 12 season 4 episodes during Saturday, and then the new episodes at 930pm

    Noice.

    Speaking of..12th episode today!
  21. NeecH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2003
    star 4
    Bit of a quiet episode this week... by BSG standards anyway.

    I'm glad they fixed the problem with Tyrol's kid as him being another human/cylon hybrid overshadowed the 'specialness' of Athena and Helo's daughter.

    And I guess Tigh didn't hold onto his secret about Ellen being the final Cylon very long
    ... :p
  22. Kahlan72 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2000
    star 4
    It was a bit quiet..other than the angsty scene..and the cuddly scene! :)

    So BSG is on. Saturday night 910 pm on sci fi channel for the next 7 weeks..or is there a break?. Will be on here too. Company welcome.
  23. Murder_Sandwhich Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    Episode 12 -

    This effing show
  24. NeecH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2003
    star 4
    Just got these in the mail today and thought they were cool enough to show (tease) you guys;

    I have a friend in the US whose business is remaking studio quality props from TV and Film for resale and exhibition, most of his work being vehicles from the original Star Wars trilogy under license from LucasFilm. Anyway, he did a couple of cool BSG props and sent them through to me:

    [image=http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v333/NeecH/BSGSet.jpg]

    Adama's Zippo
    [image=http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v333/NeecH/AdamaZippo.jpg]

    Colonial Tags (with enough room to inscribe my own name ;) )
    [image=http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v333/NeecH/BSGDogTags.jpg]
  25. Magnus_Darcrider Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2005
    star 4
    Oooh, very nice.

    I know people who'd kill for those items :p Don't suppose your friend has a website?

    Be seeing you,

    Magnus Darcrider
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