Begun... The Terror War Has...

Discussion in 'Cleveland, OH' started by TheRandomMenace, Mar 17, 2003.

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  1. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    That is very true, we do have the ability (and responsibility) to correct the mistakes of the past administrations. But what concerns me about Bush's policy on Iraq is when he starts talking in a very high-and-mighty attitude about good and evil. I'm not afraid of men who think they are evil (they're easy to spot)...I'm concerned about those who think they are good (beyond question).

    Thank you Grn, for posting that list of countries supporting this war. The only countries mentioned in the news have been France/Germany/Russia...because of their status on the security council. This proves that the UN was capable of engaging in military action against Iraq, after all possibilities for negotiation were used; W never gave them the chance.

    One of the prominent names I'm not seeing is Canada. I can't say I blame them, we killed (a horrible accident) some of their brave armed forces (who were working with us)...and the Bush administration couldn't even step down from their pride to say "this was OUR fault...WE are sorry"
  2. TheRandomMenace Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 4
    Who needs Canada's one tank anyway?

    Thank you for some actual country names. Like Krash said, I haven't heard many in the news, so I wasn't sure. I just have a bad feeling about this war, and I don't know that it's the right thing to do right now... Bush is initiating war on his terms, when there has been no evidence from the weapons inspections. Granted, you could hide a bomb in downtown Cleveland and plausibly no one would find it... the same goes for Iraqi locations... and for all we know they have hidden weapons, but I have a really bad feeling about this whole thing.
  3. Jade-Walker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 4
    Not to add something that seems trite, but I've been reading Rogue Squadron for the first time (really good book) and came across this quote. I though it appied:

    Ackbar: "We know war is barbaric, but we try not to be barbaric in waging war. We hold ourselves to a high standard that demands we only attack legitimate military targets--not civilians, not medical frigates. We would like to see this honor we demand of ourselves reflected in the actions of our enemies."

    Wedge: "But if if they were as honorable as we are, we'd not be fighting this war."

    A: "And in that you have the core of the whole problem."
  4. Douz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2000
    star 3
  5. skyedancer Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2002
    star 2
    Thank you for listing those countries. Does anyone know how many of them are willingly giving their support and how many were enticed to give their support with promises of lots of American dollars? I'm not mocking here. I would honestly like to know.
  6. Anrev_the_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2002
    star 4
    Just noticed something. All the ppl here who own Mac's are "pro-war"


    This is all I will say on the matter. I am a veterian. I served 3 years in the Army. 1 of those years in S. Korea. (note: Grn's list should state "S. Korea" not just Korea. Sorry, just something I'm picky about.) To those who say we shouldn't go to war because its politicly motivated, or beacuse "the rest of the world" (read UN) think that we shouldn't go to war should remember one thing. The UN says the same thing to Israel (as does the US). "Dont go to war with the Palastinians. Be friends with them. Try to work things out peacefully." And they have car bombings and shootings every other day. Now I'm not saying that we need to go out and kill everyone who is a threat to our way of life. But I am saying that this should have been taken care of a long time ago. During the Clinton years there was a kind of "ignore it and it'll go away" pollicy. When the WTC was bombed the first time Clinton fired a couple of cruise missles at Al-Quida camps and said "we took care of the problem and they wont be bothering us any more" Heh...right. Now I wont say any more about how much I hate Clinton cause he helps to pay my paycheck. (Check this out...I pay taxes out of my paycheck. Part of those taxes pay the Clintons their paychecks. They use those paychecks to pay for flights on the airplanes I get paid to work on. And I pay taxes out of my paychecks. Ah the Circle of Life) But I digress.
    This is VERY necessary ppl. Do you want to live in a contry like Israel? If we dont do something about it it will! If that happens I'll have to move to Canada with all the draft dodging hippie tree huggers.




    Sorry about that last part. Canada is NOT full of draft dodgers. Canada is a beautiful country. I just dont like their politics. Or their stance on this issue.



    Oh and Cindy. You dont have to worry about being drafted. Your a woman. Clickie #1Clickie #2
  7. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    I didn't know you were a veteran Anrev. I guess you have that unique perspective on the situation. Many people say by being anti-war...you are not supporting you troops; I disagree with that judgement. I'm very grateful for what those men and women are doing; and my concern is the Bush's political/personal agendas are risking their lives needlessly.

    From what I understand, the UN has engaged in military operations before, so it's not that they are un-willing to fight. What concerns me about Bush was un-willing to wait for the findings of the weapons inspectors. In their most recent meeting, they concluded Saddam has been "dragging his feet" with inspections. Given that, i think the UN would be able to organize a worldwide military operation (including the US)

    The reason I mentioned Canada is that (as Padme put it)
    he's been our strongest supporter!
    After the fighter bombing incident...and our less the concerned response to it, the Bush administration seems to be alienating one of our longtime allies. I know there was a great deal of resentment by Canadians(rightfully so), about our country's response to the incident. But like everything else in the media these days...you don't hear much about the countries who question Bush's policy.
  8. Douz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2000
    star 3
    " From what I understand, the UN has engaged in military operations before"

    Yup...that would be called the Korean War.

    Although on the more comical side of things I find some of these reasons given by Dennis Miller very true.


    Here are 10 things to consider when voicing an opinion on this important issue:

    1) Out of President Bush and Saddam Hussein . . . Hussein is the bad guy.

    2) If you have faith in the United Nations to do the right thing, keep this in mind: They have Libya heading the committee on human rights and Iraq heading the global disarmament committee. Do your own math here.

    3) If you use Google Search and type in "French Military Victories," your reply will be "Did you mean French Military Defeats?" France is trying to contain the United States, not Hussein.

    4) If your only anti-war slogan is "NO WAR FOR OIL," sue your school district for allowing you to slip through the cracks and robbing you of the education you deserve.

    5) Saddam and Bin Laden will not seek United Nations approval before they try to kill us.

    6) Despite common belief, Martin Sheen is not the President. He plays one on TV.

    7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an "Infidel!" and Bin Laden and most Arabs want you dead, too.

    8 ) If you believe in a "vast right-wing conspiracy" but not in the danger Hussein poses, quit hanging out with the Dell Computer Dude.

    9) We are not trying to liberate them.

    10) Whether you are for military action or against it, our young men and women overseas are fighting for us to defend our right to speak out. We all need to support them without reservation.
  9. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    Actually, most of the recent military actions of the past decade have been UN operations (with a majority of US Armed Forces) Bosnia, Somallia, and a variety of peace-keeping efforts have all been under the flag of the UN.

    Whether you are for military action or against it, our young men and women overseas are fighting for us to defend our right to speak out. We all need to support them without reservation
    Are you under the impression that I (or anyone who is opposed to any war) doesn't support the efforts of our Armed Forces? If this is something that has to be done...fine. My thoughts and prayers are for the safe return of those fighting to defend us. What concerns me is Bush's motivations for forcing this matter into the current state of war.

    Out of President Bush and Saddam Hussein...Hussein is the bad guy
    Not disputing that...however, that doesn't make Bush 100% beyond question.

    And it is the right of every American to feel free to speak up about their concerns about their President. Made possible by the men and women of those Armed Forces (currently in service)...who's lives I hope are not being used for personal vengence.
  10. Douz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2000
    star 3
    " And it is the right of every American to feel free to speak up about their concerns about their President. Made possible by the men and women of those Armed Forces (currently in service)

    And it is also the right of every American to feel free to speak up and support and praise their President. Also made possible by the countless numbers of people who have served this great country and some who even gave their lives defending it.

  11. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    Again, I'm not trying to dispute that. What I am concerned about is this growing presecution of anyone critical of President Bush's policies as "un-American"
    EDIT: Not a direct comment at Douz (sorry for any mis-understanding), just a comment on a growing problem around the country.

    Someone raised a very good pont, on another thread:
    Cheveyo wrote:
    "I don't recall any staunch Republicans (or anyone else, for that matter) being labeled Anti-American in the Clinton's 8 years in office. He had his fair share of opposition, yet none of them were labelled anti-American."


    I understand many people's attitudes changed (after 9/11)...but it does raise a very good question. Is there a double-standard going on? Recently, former presidents Carter and Clinton are being called "un-American" for their critisism of Bush II. And they were in the very same position Bush is in now (with access to the same level of information).
  12. Douz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2000
    star 3
    I dont believe I ever stated that anyone was un-American if they were against the war.

    Something to think about though...what does a soldier fighting in a war think about those who protest the very war that they are fighting? How does that make them feel?

  13. skyedancer Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2002
    star 2
    "Hippie tree hugger." I take exception to that remark! I have never hugged a tree in my life! Maybe flowers, ferns, or fungi! ;)

    Seriously, as far as supporting the troops, they are at the top of my prayer list every day now! So just because I'm not 100% happy about this war doesn't mean I'm against our soldiers. My father was a WW2 vet and every day I'm thankful for his sacrifices and those sacrifices of other soldiers.
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