PT Belated Media: "What if Star Wars Episode 1 was good?"

oh yeah?

"i'm gonna snog my brother who 'I've always known' to be, to prove a point"

great storytelling that

 

You should make a video!

 

I find this title offensive. Apparently, the maker of those video clips and whoever posted this thread seemed are arrogant enough to assume that everyone agrees with them. Screw all of them.

If we couldn't see . . . what? Who do you think you are to believe we have to agree with your opinion?

 

But didn't you know? Plinkett 3:16 says that everyone hates the prequels!

 

If the title was something like "What would, IMHO, have made a better Episode 1/2" I would have given these videos a chance. But since the actual title arrogantly assumes that they're inherently bad and/or that absolutely everyone hates them as a fact, I won't waste my time with this.

 

Ughhhhhhhhhh wish people would let this go, it's been 11 years since AOTC

 

In your opinion.

In my opinion, the OT is significantly more flawed to the PT. I love them regardless, though. If we could only love perfect things, we'd either be lacking a lot of love in our lives or living in a perpetual state of denial.

That's why I find these types of videos rather tedious. If one doesn't like the PT, that's fine, but I've always found it enormously presumptuous when such people try to speak for everyone. I think a lot of people make the mistake, too, of thinking that just because they don't like something, that automatically means it is bad. With something as subjective as a film, it's far more productive to lay out what you didn't like about it rather than declare that particular elements failed wholesale. In large part, this is because the very things you dislike might be what others enjoy (and vice versa).

I've always found the characters of and relationships of TPM to be very well done and a remarkably good set up to AOTC. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Jar Jar, Padmé, Anakin, Shmi, and Padmé are all perfectly placed for AOTC. In particular, I think AOTC does a lot of the heavy lifting for ROTS and the synergy among these three films is why they work so well for me.

 

Why are you on this board, then?

If the PT is so horribly inadequate, it strikes me that it would be a waste of time to pontificate on its manifold failings.

The Belated Media videos are so head-thuddingly silly, to me, that it would also be a waste of my time to say too much about them. So I won't.

But, in short, this guy doesn't seem to understand one iota of the prequel trilogy's imagery, characters, themes, or general storyline -- or, for that matter, how they were made (or WHY they were made) in the first place.

An executive at Fox? Purrleease. That's so laughably ignorant of the independent spirit that got Star Wars made that I'm almost willing to grant these videos are actually satire. Scarily, they don't seem to be. Asking the viewer to imagine such a hypothetical scenario insults the intelligence of any moderately-educated Star Wars fan from the very start. It reveals a total ignorance of the production history of these films and is a massive diss on who George Lucas is and what he stands for.

Just... no. The rest, for the most part, is majorly garish tripe. I guess he started as he meant to go on. Like that whole deal with Palpatine being an intermediary. Uh, okay. And what does that accomplish, exactly, besides removing a whole host of symbolic "Satan in direct control of democracy" overtones, and adding layers of clunky redundancy to the main political storyline? And that bit about how Episode II should end: clone ships rising into a blood-soaked sky and a doomed wedding in fading autumnal light aren't powerfully tragic enough? Suggesting a flat alternative is like crayon-ing over "Water Lillies" or "The Creation Of Adam".

And while you could argue that the guy is simply offering some sincere "scrapbook" ideas, he does it with interspersed hints of condescension, eye-rolling, and so on, and seems to be riding -- once again -- on the coattails of another man's hard work and fame. While bringing little originality or thoughtfulness of his own: just bulleted ideas he has crudely tried to shape into (and seems to believe actually constitute) a real, solid storyline.

That's all just my opinion, though.

 

Christ, just listening to this guy's conception for what the ending of AOTC should be is depressing. It's just a bunch of clichéd, obviously telegraphed lines that have been heard a hundred times. As opposed to how the film actually concludes, which is my favorite ending of any of the Star Wars films. AOTC is overflowing with imagery and beauty as it is.

Really, they're "surrounded by darkness and so alone." "It's not all darkness and there's glimmers of hope all around them"?

Jesus, someone hold me…I can't take the originality.

I much prefer Obi-Wan and Yoda's final lines in the film as is.

"Without the clones, it would not have been a victory."

"Victory? Victory, you say? Master Obi-Wan, not victory; the shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun the Clone War has."

 

I agree. His edition of AotC wasn't too bad until the ending. I thought it was horribly anticlimactic.

 

Though I agree with sone of his points I do think the ego of saying HIS take on the prequels is superior to abyone else's is absurd.

I saw his vids a couples of weeks ago. Though again I see why he has problems and I do like some of his ideas I think he doesnt get star wars completely. There is a certain scifi, but fable-ish fantasy flavor to it. Making it feel timeless, both a long time ago and simeday in the future. That magic is missing in the PT. Hell its something that I think was only recaptured in the Clone War shorts.

This guy has some good ideas but his ego gets in the way of contributing to fandom.

And while you may like the prequels, the PT as movies are not bad but certainly not great. They are good in their own way, but they do fall sigbificant narrative and cinematographic fails to earn its spot as a dissapointment.

People shouldnt defend because its star wars, but by its content itself. Though I sm not a big fan of the PT i did see them, enjoy some aspects of it, and i do have them because at thend of the day i am a star wars fan.

But people mistake being a fan to beibg a devotee.

Like a good relationship I tell my friend, or partner what I like and dislike of them. Granted I dont do this often, but I do do this. I keep reading people saying stop diising the pt. If you dont like it bug off.

Then why be in a forum. A debate is about opposing views. And the pt has people divided for obvious reasons. If you like the pt fine, I like Troma films and Coreman filns. Alot of exploitation films and cult films...yet i know they are bad even though i like them. And respect people that dont like it, because i know its hard for a fan of the ot to dig the pt, its difficult not unheard of but when you see the masterpieces of the OT you realise how far the PT fell.

 

*electronically holds PiettsHat*

God, these last few posts just reminded me how bad this guy's videos were. I've only watched his "What if Episode 2" once and I basically had the same reaction throughout the video as ReallyLameMoron, better known as RLM, had to TPM:

"Please God, Make it Stop. Make it End"

Who gave this genius the idea to comment on AOTC? How the hell did he get so many likes? And what makes this guy think he can make a better AOTC than George Lucas? Matter of fact, why are we even bothering with this guy if he hasn't made any films or published any writing? Let's take a look at his resume. Huh, he doesn't have one? Then how come people are saying in his comments how much of a better filmmaker he is than George Lucas?

His first one was bad enough and "What if Episode 2 were good?" has successfully lowered the bar even further:

-Why is Obi-Wan, a grown man and Jedi Knight, acting like some jealous, teenage boy who's just been rejected by a girl?

-Why the hell does the Jedi Council need an intermediary to communicate with the Republic?

-Why is every character's motivations and emotions so simple?

-For that matter, why is the whole plot so simple? It's as if everyone and everything in his version is in stasis except when they're needed to make one of the protagonists react in a certain way or get the plot moving...

-R.I.P. Count Dooku ... oh man, the back of my brain is telling me I don't want to remember what happened to him in this guy's version.

-Can't even remember how Padme falls in love in this version except that it was done in the most stupidest, unbelievable, cliched way possible.

-Say goodbye to Shmi and every other part of AOTC that built the film towards ROTS.

-Say goodbye to entertaining lightsaber fights.

-You're forced to say goodbye to your suspension of disbelief as well.

-his ending vs the real AOTC ending, 'nuff said.

And this is all written out of recollection of the one time I saw it. I'm not going to bother watching it again today; it'd just ruin my mood on New Years.

 

I like it. Especially the little comic that went with the AOTC storyline.

 

The only thing that gives the makers of these kinds of thing more pleasure than making people laugh at the PT is making people laugh at PT fans reacting to the thing. Rise above good people. Rise above.

 

The OP seems the think most of the people on here dislike the PT. I'm not sure why he came to that conclusion, as I don't think it's true. And I'm not sure why he came into the PT forum just to bash the PT, almost like he is trying to provoke a response. He says the PT is signifigantly worse than the OT, yet provides little reasoning for thinking so, and only compares it to other films. I think he could at least give some reasons for why he personally dislikes the PT, instead of just posting videos.

 

The mistake you are making here is that you assume that those who defend the PT do so because they are blinded by their love of Star Wars or are slavish devotees. And that's simply not true for many (if not most) PT fans. There are people here whose introduction into Star Wars was a PT film and they are fans of Star Wars because of the PT rather than simply liking the PT because they are fans of Star Wars. I would know, since I'm one of them. I wouldn't have joined this forum 3 years ago (today!) and made over 2,000 posts if it weren't for the PT.

I say this because I find it patronizing to be told "while you make like the prequels, the PT as movies are not bad but certainly not great." That's your opinion -- there's really no need to project this onto others. If you find the films to have significant narrative and cinematographic failings then that is your issue with the film. But not mine. And if I disagree with something someone writes about the PT, I'm going to let it be known. I'm not just going to "bug off."

There might be people who view the PT similar to cult classics. But a lot of people such as myself find it very frustrating to have people tell us "If you like the PT, fine, I like Troma films and Coreman films. A lot of exploitation and cult films…yet i know they are bad even though i like them." If you feel this way, that's fine, but I really don't see the relevance to people who like the PT. I don't "know they are bad" -- I find them legitimately well-crafted films and superior, in many ways, to the OT. I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but I do ask that I not be condescended to.

 

Im not trying to be pedantic. But movie critics and fans have mixed feelings about the films. Why do you go to a forum? You have to hear every side to the argument. Its not that you ahree. Good God, your opiniond is just that yours. But I have opinions about certain things I like to voice them, I like to hear people oppose or agree with them.

What I can't stand is people not take the opinions of others into consideration.

Why join this forum if not for debate. When I joined this forum long ago as NecroJedi, DarthZordon and other names as such I did so with the knowledge that I would have my opinion to defend. Now this was way back when ATOC was about to be realesed and spoilers were abound and SuperShadow freaked people out with his weird theories.

I am glad the prequels brought you to more sw.

I respect opinions, and may even tell you why I agree or disagree with you.

But I am always open to debate,not because i know everything but because i like fan debate its fun and believe me after,debating here and seeing the movie...the SW experience will change you completely.

What I tried to say is not an insult or pedantic bigotry.

Its just distaste for people who get mad when other people express their opinions.

Look if you like the PT then fine, I like some of it, hate some of it. But debating why is so much fun. Especially when people have an opinion thays different from one's own.

There is a reason noy everybody is cinematographer or director...you need to study for it.

Why are there film critics? People who know enough about movies to give you an informed opinion about things.

The OT is considered a masterpiece of Modern Cinema, and among the most important films ever made. THIS according to many experts on the subject, other experts have also taken into account the pt. Honestly some like it like famed critic Roger Ebert who liked two of the three (ATOC he hated). However most hated the movies with ROTS making the save critic wise.

There are opinions and informed opinions.

Here 99% give opinions.

Why do I certify the movies are bad, because of the consensus pf critics.

It actually takes humilty to accept when your movie is bad. Even though you may like it.

Yes I like critically panned films but I will not shy away from the truth. Its considered bad but I love it.

There's no shame in that. And I can stand in any forum and explain what I considered good of a movie many hated. And ill understand why people woulf make fun of a film but i wouñdnt be angry theyd be expresing themselves.

I like the OT, I grew up with the OT. The PT though not my favprite pieces of cinema I was there each release, premiere, because its Star Wars.

Byt why I dont like about the SW Saga,I can ventilate here as it was meant to be. Among fellow fans who understand my lingo and will give their honest opinions about it.

But everytome I podt I expose myself to all sorts of reactions, agreeing, disagreeing, joles, whatever
its all part of the experience and hey i wouldnt change anything about it.

 

I'm not saying that people shouldn't voice their opinions. I'm saying they shouldn't project their opinions onto others or try to speak for them. Or claim that critical/popular consensus somehow gives their opinion legitimacy over others (not that you did this in particular). That's all. Some of your statements earlier seemed to indicate that you felt PT fans were mindlessly defending the PT just because it is Star Wars and they are devotees. I responded to disabuse you of this notion. While it may be true for some, it is certainly not true for everyone.

I'm up for a good debate, but I don't like it when people put words in my mouth or try to speak for me.

Sure. But I can say whether I liked or disliked it. One doesn't have to be a writer to say whether or not they enjoyed a book after all. Similarly, you don't have to be a chef to know what tastes good to you and what doesn't.

I would argue that film critics serve to help people decide which film to see, given that they can be expensive. Generally, I find that I will sometimes look at critics who have rated films similarly to how I rated them. That helps me to decide whether or not I should give a particular film a shot. But I don't know of anyone who actually bases their opinion of a film by what a critic says. People go and see the film and then form an opinion. Otherwise, what is the point of watching it in the first place? Just read the review.

I hope you noticed that ROTS, for example, has better reviews than ROTJ (one of the three masterpieces you describe above). AOTC -- the film Ebert panned -- actually is better rated than ROTJ on metacritic last I checked. ROTJ sits at 52. AOTC at 53. Regardless, you're making an argument from authority and an argument from popularity. Both of these are logical fallacies. I don't come to these forums to hear people regurgitate the opinions of critics. I come here to read why they like or don't like the films. I have far more respect for a respectful, well-elucidated opinion (even if I don't agree with it) rather than one that just defers to popular consensus.

I'm not going to pretend that a lot of people didn't pan the PT; they did. But I don't think their opinions hold any more objective "truth" than mine does. I too understand why people make fun of a film (and I make fun of films I don't like as well). But discussing the films is different from declaring that the films are good or bad based on popular or critical consensus. Art is subjective and when you make that kind of declaration, you dismiss people's opinions out of hand. And that does nothing to facilitate good discussion.

 

Actually Im not. What we are saying is exactly the same. Yes it is a logical fallacy to use arguments of popular consensus and information. What I was tring to say is that there is no need to put opinions as fact. So we are just dancing around pointing fingers at something known as fallacy of argument. We agree we share only opnions here, not irrefutable evidence because it is just opinion of art.

And I have my opinions, and I will give them. Im not giving Marton's, Scott's or Ebert's.

I give MINE.

Should I be a rebel and support everything the media hates, just love obscure movies. Or ve a mainstream cat and love what the media says I love. i prefer secet option c) I make up my own mind.

Im sure youll agree with me.

But what I am saying also is that cinematic criticism is like art criticism and literary criticism. Its the only way of seeing the,"official opinions" of experts. That is why you study criticism. A cinematic critic should evaluate if the cinematography was effective, etc. I mean why give awards its all so relative.

But back on opinions here:

I can admit, that we are aiming at the same tree and shooting at each other with other purpose than to see who's branier or whose right. You were argumenting in circles because I reached a point where you and I were arguing about the same thing. And we are at the same point we started with a,,crossed opinion on the prequels but we agree 100% on what opinions are.

 

I agree with you that there is no need to put opinions as fact. And that we should make up our own minds. But I don't agree that one should defer to critics. Because critics themselves often don't agree. One critic calls ROTS a "pop masterpiece" another will say it's better than the first two prequels but that it's like "comparing natural death to crucification." Two very different opinions, both by professional movie critics. I, therefore, don't put much stock in critical consensus.

 

You dont have to depend or defer to them. Thats the "informed opinions" mind you. And they will debate and they will not agree. But sometimes in theirbreviews you can see interpretations of the movies you didnt see. Reedeming qualities also and failures as well.

To me it isnt defering to them more like consulting experts. Should I agree,not,necesarilly. Or maybe ill agreebwith them all. Or none of them. Avatar was considered a box office hit, a critical hit yet I myself hate it. But I can understand why people like it. But it hasnt moved me at all to like it.

I like to explore and form my opinion. But my opnion is based on many things critocs reviews is just one of the sources i look in order to form a complete opinion. Thats all

 

So how many pages will this get to before the lock?

Place your bets here!

 

Why should this be locked? Looks like it's sparked a pretty good discussion.

 

Ones that tend to veer off track and head straight into either mindless PT bashing or utter derailment

 

I think the title of the thread is a bit misleading, the discussion should be about our opinions on his take on the PT. Which I found very original and interesting, not necessarily better than what we already have.